Least powerful Warhammer 40k IoM force that can take on a legion of Sardukar.

[Agent23]

For the purpose of this fight, we shall have the Sardukar stationed on a random Dune planet with a sufficient industrial capacity to provide them with whatever they want.
Their base of operation shall be a large, sparsely populated island the rough size of England.
ROB has decided that you must be the one to test their toughness by throwing IoM military units at them in an ascending order, so no, you can't just dump the Custodes and the Grey Knights on top of them.

You are to keep this limited to ground forces, only, no orbital bombardments, either.

 

[ATP]

For the purpose of this fight, we shall have the Sardukar stationed on a random Dune planet with a sufficient industrial capacity to provide them with whatever they want.
Their base of operation shall be a large, sparsely populated island the rough size of England.
ROB has decided that you must be the one to test their toughness by throwing IoM military units at them in an ascending order, so no, you can't just dump the Custodes and the Grey Knights on top of them.

You are to keep this limited to ground forces, only, no orbital bombardments, either.

first IG unit which fire at them would blown up both them and themselves.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

I'd say a small sniper platoon with sufficiently long ranged lasguns. They can pick off the Sardukar from range and cause them to go BOOM. Though, this would likely be well trained guardsmen who are also well equipped and provisioned.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I'd say a small sniper platoon with sufficiently long ranged lasguns. They can pick off the Sardukar from range and cause them to go BOOM. Though, this would likely be well trained guardsmen who are also well equipped and provisioned.

Note...this causes a BOOM in both points...shield location and firer's location. So...maybe you'll be able to knock off enough like that.

 

[Zachowon]

A single basilisk battery

 

[Yinko]

I guess it depends on what the SOP for the Sadukar is. Are they primarily SpecOps infantry with drop capability? Or do they have vehicular support in the form of close air support and armor? If they don't have support, and we want to keep this fair, then we have to remember that most 40k IG regiments aren't that well trained.

Of the famous IG regiments you get groups like the Catachans (warriors not soldiers), Kriegers (no self preservation), and similarly deficient and overly specialized groups. The only group that is on a similar level might be the Cadians. But even there they are just standard well rounded troops, comparable to modern Marines rather than SpecOps genetically engineered super soldiers from a culture that worships war.

The best comparison I can think of would be Imperial Storm Troopers.

Tempestus Scions

Storm Troopers work best under maximum pressure, maximum intensity, and maximum danger. When these things are shared with others, they help form a bond stronger than any tie known in the galaxy. Attributed to an unnamed Tempestus Scion officer Tempestus Scions (sing. Tempestus Scion) (pronounced...

warhammer40k.fandom.com

 

[Zachowon]

I guess it depends on what the SOP for the Sadukar is. Are they primarily SpecOps infantry with drop capability? Or do they have vehicular support in the form of close air support and armor? If they don't have support, and we want to keep this fair, then we have to remember that most 40k IG regiments aren't that well trained.

Of the famous IG regiments you get groups like the Catachans (warriors not soldiers), Kriegers (no self preservation), and similarly deficient and overly specialized groups. The only group that is on a similar level might be the Cadians. But even there they are just standard well rounded troops, comparable to modern Marines rather than SpecOps genetically engineered super soldiers from a culture that worships war.

The best comparison I can think of would be Imperial Storm Troopers.

Tempestus Scions

Storm Troopers work best under maximum pressure, maximum intensity, and maximum danger. When these things are shared with others, they help form a bond stronger than any tie known in the galaxy. Attributed to an unnamed Tempestus Scion officer Tempestus Scions (sing. Tempestus Scion) (pronounced...

warhammer40k.fandom.com

Kaskrin are the Cadian versions

 

[Yinko]

Kaskrin are the Cadian versions

I was very selective of which one I chose. The other special forces groups tend to be specialized for specific roles, the Storm Troopers seem to be the equivalent of the SEALS or the SAS... or the Sardukar.

While:

Their training is even more gruelling than that of the elite Imperial Storm Troopers

This:

classified by the Departmento Munitorum as the type of Tempestus Scions known as "Grenadiers" because of their heavy weapons and elite tactical training.

Do the Sardukar use heavy weapons? Are grenadiers who focus more on fortification defense even a good counter to an agile strike force?

 

[Zachowon]

I was very selective of which one I chose. The other special forces groups tend to be specialized for specific roles, the Storm Troopers seem to be the equivalent of the SEALS or the SAS... or the Sardukar.

Tempestus Scions are basically the best of the best.
Like Delta, except larger range of capabilities and can take a lot of forces down a lot more.

Kaskrins are the Cadian version of them

 

[Husky_Khan]

A single basilisk battery

The Sardaukar at the very least have shields bro.

 

[Yinko]

Tempestus Scions are basically the best of the best.
Like Delta, except larger range of capabilities and can take a lot of forces down a lot more.

Kaskrins are the Cadian version of them

See quote

or as they are known in Low Gothic, Storm Troopers

Kaskrin are similarly elite special forces, but their function is different. Kaskrin use heavy weapons primarily. Likely because Cadia is heavily fortified and so their tactics were developed to work with emplacements or to attack fortifications.

 

[Zachowon]

The Sardaukar at the very least have shields bro.

A single battery is like 3 of them. Over pressure still works.

 

[Husky_Khan]

A single battery is like 3 of them. Over pressure still works.

The Harkonnen used artillery against the Atreides when they assaulted Arrakeen. It was surprising because artillery was basically seen as useless in combat due to shields. And it was but the Harkonnen used it to collapse the caves the Atreides forces were hiding in. Then the Harkonnens salvaged their artillery after because it was deemed useless to use once again even on Arrakis of all places.

So either the Harkonnen just invented a form of explosive artillery that doesn't use overpressure for some reason or Shields protect from all of the debilitating effects of artillery... Which is why it's seen as near useless on the battlefield.

Furthermore Basilisks have to target something. Sardaukar are light infantry who sneak around murderizing people in close combat. How is one battery of artillery going to conveniently find an entire Legion just standing in the open waiting to get blown up? How are the Basilisk artillery crews going to prevent themselves from getting ninja murdered by the elite close quarters combat specialists trained in sneaking and murdering people in close combat in the middle of the night.

And finally how does a Basilisk shoot down an Ornithopter?

Like I don't know much about Sardaukar except shields, swords and ornithopters and that's enough to know a battery of Basilisks would be absolutely useless on its own.

 

[Zachowon]

The Harkonnen used artillery against the Atreides when they assaulted Arrakeen. It was surprising because artillery was basically seen as useless in combat due to shields. And it was but the Harkonnen used it to collapse the caves the Atreides forces were hiding in. Then the Harkonnens salvaged their artillery after because it was deemed useless to use once again even on Arrakis of all places.

So either the Harkonnen just invented a form of explosive artillery that doesn't use overpressure for some reason or Shields protect from all of the debilitating effects of artillery... Which is why it's seen as near useless on the battlefield.

Furthermore Basilisks have to target something. Sardaukar are light infantry who sneak around murderizing people in close combat. How is one battery of artillery going to conveniently find an entire Legion just standing in the open waiting to get blown up? How are the Basilisk artillery crews going to prevent themselves from getting ninja murdered by the elite close quarters combat specialists trained in sneaking and murdering people in close combat in the middle of the night.

And finally how does a Basilisk shoot down an Ornithopter?

Like I don't know much about Sardaukar except shields, swords and ornithopters and that's enough to know a battery of Basilisks would be absolutely useless on its own.

They have stubbers and bolters mounted on them for dealing with close infantry.
And I know nothing so I don't know if they were a large legion the basalicks could see from distance or not.
I was thinking they were.

Basalicks seem to work against every sort of enemy the Imperium has

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Hellhound tanks and all the flamers.

Is dripping promethium slow enough to get through shields? Will the theft of oxygen from the air be enough to snuff them out?

 

[Zachowon]

What about a Melta?

 

[ATP]

They have stubbers and bolters mounted on them for dealing with close infantry.
And I know nothing so I don't know if they were a large legion the basalicks could see from distance or not.
I was thinking they were.

Basalicks seem to work against every sort of enemy the Imperium has

bolters would be useless against schields.And lasers would blown up both sides.
But promethium should work,as long as Saudarkars could not move fast.
Melta - dunno.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Shields can be fine tuned to the point that the air within the shield could be described as getting stale because its interfering with the air molecules that shields are supposed to be able to allow to pass through. The thing with these shields is that (like many things in scifi) they violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. Most of the time when the shields are described, people state that it's largely based on 'just the speed' which is like anything faster then moving two and a half to three and a half inches a second can penetrate depending on how the shields been tuned. But it lets other things pass through clearly, like light so you can see inside and outside.

So it might block a flamethrower or napalm, and the liquid and flames would just as likely "bounce" off of the shield as opposed to sliding/dripping down it like it's a physical armor.

The other thing is that in the Dune novels, the soldiers wear battle dress/kits. They're capable of wearing battle armor and gasmasks and little oxygen tanks if needbe. Since this is an industrialized planet, I'm assuming the Sardaukar would be able to supply their troops with basic equipment. So even if the shields don't block flames or gas or whatever, they'd still be mitigated other ways.

In regards to the armored vehicles, the Sardaukar in the original Dune novel used Lasguns. You saw them in the recent movie too. They're really good at penetrating armor. One popular quote is from Duke Leto Atreides stating he'll cut a Carryall (which is a massive mining ship) in two for whatever reason and he's inside of an ornithopter so either its a ornithopter or personal based lasgun. And Dune Lasguns including the man portable ones are... IMHO... a fair bit more powerful then your standard 40K Lasgun that infantry carry. I'd probably put them above Lascannons as well tbh.

I'm not a Dune lore expert by any means but Lasguns in Dune seem to be used as basically carve through whatever you want type of weapons. So I'd assume that all manner of Dune Military Lasguns would be a threat to most armored vehicles (within reason).

Sardaukar also have access to aircraft/gunships like Ornithopters as well which can be armed with lasguns as well as missiles and rockets (for unshielded targets).

The Imperial Guard is way more versatile and have far more utility but the Sardaukar are more than just dudes with swords running at you that you can blow or burn up with a single platoon of vehicles.

 

[Zachowon]

Shields can be fine tuned to the point that the air within the shield could be described as getting stale because its interfering with the air molecules that shields are supposed to be able to allow to pass through. The thing with these shields is that (like many things in scifi) they violate the Laws of Thermodynamics. Most of the time when the shields are described, people state that it's largely based on 'just the speed' which is like anything faster then moving two and a half to three and a half inches a second can penetrate depending on how the shields been tuned. But it lets other things pass through clearly, like light so you can see inside and outside.

So it might block a flamethrower or napalm, and the liquid and flames would just as likely "bounce" off of the shield as opposed to sliding/dripping down it like it's a physical armor.

The other thing is that in the Dune novels, the soldiers wear battle dress/kits. They're capable of wearing battle armor and gasmasks and little oxygen tanks if needbe. Since this is an industrialized planet, I'm assuming the Sardaukar would be able to supply their troops with basic equipment. So even if the shields don't block flames or gas or whatever, they'd still be mitigated other ways.

In regards to the armored vehicles, the Sardaukar in the original Dune novel used Lasguns. You saw them in the recent movie too. They're really good at penetrating armor. One popular quote is from Duke Leto Atreides stating he'll cut a Carryall (which is a massive mining ship) in two for whatever reason and he's inside of an ornithopter so either its a ornithopter or personal based lasgun. And Dune Lasguns including the man portable ones are... IMHO... a fair bit more powerful then your standard 40K Lasgun that infantry carry. I'd probably put them above Lascannons as well tbh.

I'm not a Dune lore expert by any means but Lasguns in Dune seem to be used as basically carve through whatever you want type of weapons. So I'd assume that all manner of Dune Military Lasguns would be a threat to most armored vehicles (within reason).

Sardaukar also have access to aircraft/gunships like Ornithopters as well which can be armed with lasguns as well as missiles and rockets (for unshielded targets).

The Imperial Guard is way more versatile and have far more utility but the Sardaukar are more than just dudes with swords running at you that you can blow or burn up with a single platoon of vehicles.

So a Baneblade or Shadowsword.

Can the shields be overloaded?

 

[Husky_Khan]

Can the shields be overloaded?

They can be overloaded by the Coriolis Storms of Arrakis which are like supermassive dust/sand storms that shred things with winds that go several hundred kilometers per hour for hours on end. Its what took down the shields of Arrakeen when the Fremen attacked it at the climax of the first novel. Not sure if its the barrage of grit at supersonic speeds, the buffeting of winds or the static discharge creating some supermassive EMP esque effect to bring down shields.

Regardless if you could overload the shields like in the Dune RTS games, then the militaries of Dune would've probably invested in such things. But they went into different routes. Perhaps the fact a Dune style Lasgun strike a Dune shield can cause Atomic level explosions might be indicative of how "powerful" they are.