Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum

[Scottty]

Frankly, people, I do not want the world to get so overpopulated that people would have to live in pods, or in megacities that look like Borg cubes, or whatever.

If we define "overpopulation" to mean "so many people that there isn't enough of some necessary resource for all of them" then there are necessary resources other then just food. Some of which are intangibles.

On the one hand we see there are people talking big about how there are already way too many people, and using this as an excuse (and that's what it really is!) to justify imposing privation and totalitarian on everyone other than their elite selves.

On the other hand... there are those who deny that there is, or even can be, any such thing as "overpopulation". They just refuse to accept the concept as real, and deliberately go into stupid mode. Typically these are the sort of people who believe their own group to have some sort of God-given right to breed like rabbits, while trying to put the responsibility for actually providing for all their offspring on anyone but themselves.

 

[Cherico]

Frankly, people, I do not want the world to get so overpopulated that people would have to live in pods, or in megacities that look like Borg cubes, or whatever.

If we define "overpopulation" to mean "so many people that there isn't enough of some necessary resource for all of them" then there are necessary resources other then just food. Some of which are intangibles.

On the one hand we see there are people talking big about how there are already way too many people, and using this as an excuse (and that's what it really is!) to justify imposing privation and totalitarian on everyone other than their elite selves.

On the other hand... there are those who deny that there is, or even can be, any such thing as "overpopulation". They just refuse to accept the concept as real, and deliberately go into stupid mode. Typically these are the sort of people who believe their own group to have some sort of God-given right to breed like rabbits, while trying to put the responsibility for actually providing for all their offspring on anyone but themselves.

The solar system can literally house trillions of people. Easily.

 

[Scottty]

The main issue is one of technology.
7 billion using slash and burn agriculture and tossing industrial pollution in the river and get their electricity from coal is vastly more unsustainable than 50 billion people being fed by vertical farms where pollution is recycled and who get their electricity from nuclear.

These idiots who are trying to "reduce human population" are using methods that hamper the technology needed to reduce the actual pollution caused by people.
They also insist on trying to maintain control and wealth in manner that ensures most people live in primitive poverty.
Because it is more important to them that they have slave labor to make cheap shoes than it is to protect the environment.

Indeed.
The Solar System could probably support a human population in the trillions, and all of them in first-world comfort or better, and with Earth being largely left as a nature reserve...
... if it weren't for all the politicians and other "elites" who would "rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven", to cite the old Miltonian idiom.

The solar system can literally house trillions of people. Easily.

The solar system can. But it's not going to happen with Clown World type people running the show.
Not to mention the imbeciles who'd want to try to cram those trillions all onto Earth.

 

[Captain X]

Anyone born anywhere else in the system, or who spent a significant amount of time there would never be able to visit Earth again in person.

 

[mrttao]

Frankly, people, I do not want the world to get so overpopulated that people would have to live in pods, or in megacities that look like Borg cubes, or whatever.

That is the thing, you don't need.
People vastly over estimate overpopulation.
There are vast vast vast amounts of lands on earth that are not being used.

The Solar System could probably support a human population in the trillions

Vastly more than that. easily quadrillions, possibly more. No scifi tech needed either. Just a dyson swarm of rotating habitats.

 

[Scottty]

Anyone born anywhere else in the system, or who spent a significant amount of time there would never be able to visit Earth again in person.

Are you talking about the problems of prolonged living in low gravity?
There may be remedies for that. Artificial gravity in a space-station is something that Werner von Braun had an answer to.

That is the thing, you don't need.
People vastly over estimate overpopulation.
There are vast vast vast amounts of lands on earth that are not being used.

True. But not infinite amounts.
And if one looks at why much of that land is empty, generally there's a reason.
But colonizing the tundra regions would be easier then colonizing Mars. It just wouldn't have the same "get away from all the people who want to spoil everything" bonus.

 

[mrttao]

Are you talking about the problems of prolonged living in low gravity?
There may be remedies for that. Artificial gravity in a space-station is something that Werner von Braun had an answer to.

Artificial gravity like in scifi is not very plausible.
But, you can easily just make it spin and use centrifugal force to simulate gravity.

 

[Captain X]

Are you talking about the problems of prolonged living in low gravity?

Indeed.

There may be remedies for that. Artificial gravity in a space-station is something that Werner von Braun had an answer to.

Which is not something you can do with colonies on the surface of a moon or planet. Which, speaking of planets, Mars is the only one we have a realistic chance of colonizing since the the other terrestrial planets would be too hot.

 

[Skallagrim]

There may be remedies for that. Artificial gravity in a space-station is something that Werner von Braun had an answer to.

you can easily just make it spin and use centrifugal force to simulate gravity.

Which is not something you can do with colonies on the surface of a moon or planet. Which, speaking of planets, Mars is the only one we have a realistic chance of colonizing since the the other terrestrial planets would be too hot.

Ground-based centrifugal (subsurface) habs are an option, of course.

But frankly, if you have the ability to colonise in space, going for other planets is often senseless. Just build properly radiation-shielded space stations. It saves you from the burden of a gravity well, and spinning a habitat module around to create a facsimile of gravity is far easier in space than it is on the surface of a large body.

I personally think that space colonies are the way to go, not planetary ones. Even for mining puposes, the asteroid belt will generally be more attractive than Mars or whatever.

This isn't meant to suggest that space colonisation is going to be easy. If anything, I'm very cautious in my estimations, and even disregarding political nonsense, the cost of actually building a real Von Braun station ensures that we won't see one built this century. But our mastery of the prerequisite technology does continue to develop.

There is the fact, however, that a large buffered system (such as the entirety of a habitable planet's surface and atmosphere) is less vulnerable to critical points of failure. For this reason, planetary colonies can still be very attractive as part of a grand-scale survival & expansion strategy for the human species. A rock like Mars, however, lacks a useful atmosphere, lacks a useful magnetic field, and lacks useful gravity for humans. So there, you'll be stuck building little closed-off colonies. Basically all the disadvantages of space-based colonies, with none of the clear advantages.

(And forget about terraforming, It's possible, but the optimists about it are completely deluding themselves. Humanity is as far from being able to do it as neolithic farmers were from building a space shuttle. Terraforming will only be possible long ages from now, and even then, it'll be a process taking thousands of years at the very least-- more realisically, tens of thousands of years, to make a planet habitable to humans.)

Therefore, as long as we're suck in this solar system, space colonies are the better option. If and when intersteller travel becomes an option, we might start looking for planets with suitable gravity. Ideally with a useful atmosphere, too, but I have doubts that we should get that lucky. We'll probably have to focus on rocks with the right gravity, and learn how to terraform them. Which means we're talking about things that'll happen millennia from now, which means, again, that space-based colonies are the way to go for now.

Who the fuck needs Mars, if we can work our way towards O'Neill cylinders?

 

[Captain X]

So I take it you're more of a Hail Zeon type?

 

[Skallagrim]

So I take it you're more of a Hail Zeon type?

I wouldn't exactly mind dropping a space colony cylinder on a WEF meeting, now that you mention it...

(Is that reference correct? I only absorb anime stuff via pop-cultural osmosis.)

 

[DarthOne]

I wouldn't exactly mind dropping a space colony cylinder on a WEF meeting, now that you mention it...

(Is that reference correct? I only absorb anime stuff via pop-cultural osmosis.)

It is from my understanding at least.

 

[Marduk]

I'm starting to think that the best way to fight back against the freaks that want to reduce the population would be to do the opposite and increase the population to actual unsustainable levels, and I'm talking about the 9 billion to 10 billion range, just so we can leech off their wealth as actual social parasites.

The problem is that you have the problem defined wrong.
They don't want to reduce *world* population. This is not some le evil conspiracy theory, any population reduction schemes to be taken seriously come from the green lobby.
And if you haven't noticed how the green lobby works, or more specifically where it works, it has little to no say outside of the westernized countries.
So in practical terms, they want to reduce the population of western world (diverse and enriching immigrant lobbies excepted of course). Also economy. Also military. Also sovereignty and world influence.
Is the picture getting clear now?
It's just fucking watermelons. Green on the outside, red on the inside. And they are doing the same (hit)job reds always tried, just with slightly altered means and new cover story.
Some of the useful idiots may try to expand the doctrine in question to the rest of the world, but it doesn't seem like they are getting much pull at all, the further away from the western world culturally and politically, the less effect they have.
As for what would the elites want to have to do with the reds...
The reds always have a need for a massive politburo full of very powerful people to administrate the red world, down to the tiniest detail of it. An enticing prospect for many of them, just saying. They may not be huge fans of having their power blocked by private business and ownership, constitutions, national sovereignty and so on.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Indeed.
The Solar System could probably support a human population in the trillions, and all of them in first-world comfort or better, and with Earth being largely left as a nature reserve...
... if it weren't for all the politicians and other "elites" who would "rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven", to cite the old Miltonian idiom.

The actual number was estimated to be around 3 quadrillion if everything was fully exploited. That said the entire world is currently in population decline and that is not just affecting western countries. Even third world shit holes are experiencing a decline in birth rates, To be honest this decline is growing into a concerning trend, While people are worried about overpopulation we may be entering a Children of Men scenario.

 

[LordsFire]

The actual number was estimated to be around 3 quadrillion if everything was fully exploited. That said the entire world is currently in population decline and that is not just affecting western countries. Even third world shit holes are experiencing a decline in birth rates, To be honest this decline is growing into a concerning trend, While people are worried about overpopulation we may be entering a Children of Men scenario.

'Children of Men' wasn't 'declining birthrates,' it was 'no more babies are being born at all.'

Even nations that are experiencing catastrophically collapsing birth rates, there will come a turning point. In the uglier scenario, that turning point is because they import a replacement population, and that population is more willing to have children.

In the less ugly scenario, as their civilizational institutions collapse because there literally are not enough people to keep them working, those who are basically forced to realize they need to have more children.

Yes, the third world is also experiencing declining birth rates, but also note that people of different religious beliefs retain higher birth rates, even in/when they move to first-world countries. In Europe, this is generally Muslims, but in the USA, this is Christian sub-culture holdouts, as well as some spin-off groups like Mormons.

How much worse will things get before they get better? I don't know, but as a hard limit, sooner or later economic collapse due to depopulation will make the supply chains necessary to produce birth control impossible, and at that point, birth rates will go back up. I don't think it'll have to get that bad, but it is a hard limit.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

Yes, the third world is also experiencing declining birth rates, but also note that people of different religious beliefs retain higher birth rates, even in/when they move to first-world countries. In Europe, this is generally Muslims, but in the USA, this is Christian sub-culture holdouts, as well as some spin-off groups like Mormons.

I have never met a Mormon family that had fewer than three children, The average seems to be around 5 or 6.

 

[LordsFire]

I have never met a Mormon family that had fewer than three children, The average seems to be around 5 or 6.

And 2-4 seems to be the norm for Evangelical Christians, with more than 4 more likely than less than 2.

I didn't get married until I was 36, so I'll be unlikely to be able to match that, but me and the wife are trying.

 

[ATP]

And 2-4 seems to be the norm for Evangelical Christians, with more than 4 more likely than less than 2.

I didn't get married until I was 36, so I'll be unlikely to be able to match that, but me and the wife are trying.

I wish you best!

That aside - i just read article about new book of Seamus Bruner,"Controligarchs: Exposing the Billonaire Class,their secret Deals,and the Globalist Plot to dominate Your Life"

Basically,rich dudes want to control our lives -
Bill Gates is buying arable lands in USA,Jeff Bezos try to push his electric cars,Soros is manipulating elections,and Schwalb created cabal of oligarchs with more moneys to spend then most goverments have.

They plan next pandemy and lockdowns,Warren Buffett and Rockefellers were mentioned ,too.

And Mark Zuckenberg on instagram and Facebook is addicting kids to his platforms.And try to made them live in "metaverse" instead of RL.And use it to brainwasch them.

Seems like interesting book - maybe your waif would like it on Christmas ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Here's the WEF/Globalist/Communitarian/Neo-Malthusian plan, summed up:

• Stuffing people in 15-minute arcologies where everything is within walking distance, and then banning private cars and only letting people use rented robo-taxis, electric scooters, bicycles, walking, et cetera, to get to their destinations, reducing the range of the average person such that they're forced into serfdom in techno-neofeudalistic city-states.
• No more vacationing, no more cruises, no more civil aviation for the plebs. Only private aircraft for the 1%.
• No more meat. It's too energy-intensive to produce. Soy and insect powder for the plebs.
• No more single-family zoning. Everyone will have a connected wall and live in micro-apartments the size of prison cells which will cost as much to rent as actual full-size apartments.
• Passive solar, heat pumps, and LED lighting on all new residential construction.
• XR telecommuting in the Metaverse in Zuckerberg's digital Second Life shopping malls to replace real commutes and office buildings (all office work will be digitized, paperless, and cloud-based to facilitate this).
  • Eventually, with implanted brain-computer interfaces, heavy goggles will be replaced with "seamless XR" where you can just close your eyes and step into the metaverse without using any energy to get there, or walk around your drab and boring micro-apartment and have other, illusory locales filled with imaginary wealth and substance layered on top.
• No more private ownership of computer hardware that uses more wattage than a tablet or subnotebook. All AI gains will be centralized in data centers owned by a few monopolistic giants to make sure that those AIs aren't used to replicate populist pleb values and ideas. Only approved government-corpo-academia communitarian ideas are allowed to be promoted by AI.
  • Nothing scares these people shitless like the idea of based AI proliferating and spreading populist ideas.
• AI teachers, AI babysitters, AI propaganda brainwashing, everywhere.
  • Destruction of the nuclear family and traditionalism. Children treated as "small adults" and wards of the state, subject to entirely centralized and digitized education. Homeschooling outlawed as dangerous and radical.
• Implanted digital ID linked to a CBDC. All bank cards, driver's licenses, and other forms of ID are no longer physical, but linked to a cryptographic hash stored in the nanotech in your body.
• Everything that is currently private property is subject to servitization. You don't buy a refrigerator or a washing machine. You subscribe to them. Everything is on a lease model. If you are cut off from banking for expressing radical no-no wrongthink badthoughts, you can no longer make payments on the things scattered around your bugman dormitory. This is what Ida Auken means by owning nothing and being happy. What it means is that the rich and their holding companies will own things and collect rents on them.
• No class mobility, ever. Born a pleb, die a pleb. You don't earn money. You are given monthly rations of UBI good-boy tokens for obedience to the state.
• What a green, restorative, circular/steady-state economy actually means in practice is that all the companies currently producing literal plastic garbage mountains of consoomer bullshit will make the same revenues as before while producing far fewer actual goods, because they'll make different people pay subscription fees to rent the same lump of matter.
  • In other words, it means deliberately arresting GDP growth and stretching the wealth we already have. Wealth creation is replaced with wealth management, i.e. rentierism.
• Since there won't be enough wealth to satisfy the plebs in this arrangement, there need to be far fewer plebs to distribute the wealth to (i.e. depopulation).
• Robots will create a larger and larger share of all new wealth, eventually making human wage labor irrelevant. As the population contracts due to depopulation, so too do the various services that robots would otherwise need to provide, like maintaining container ships and other transport infrastructure.
  • Automated infrastructure will become increasingly inhuman, autarkic, and self-maintaining. Tasks that robots are poor at will be minimized, and the entire economy will be restructured around things robots are competent at doing.
• Once human labor is fully irrelevant, the 1% will massacre the helpless and disarmed remainder of humanity and leave behind maybe ten million very wealthy psychopaths enjoying a post-scarcity free wealth cornucopia with their robots, frolicking on empty beaches, tearing down the hollow husks of our cities and replacing them with mansions, and so on.

 

[Cherico]

Here's the WEF/Globalist/Communitarian/Neo-Malthusian plan, summed up:

• Stuffing people in 15-minute arcologies where everything is within walking distance, and then banning private cars and only letting people use rented robo-taxis, electric scooters, bicycles, walking, et cetera, to get to their destinations, reducing the range of the average person such that they're forced into serfdom in techno-neofeudalistic city-states.
• No more vacationing, no more cruises, no more civil aviation for the plebs. Only private aircraft for the 1%.
• No more meat. It's too energy-intensive to produce. Soy and insect powder for the plebs.
• No more single-family zoning. Everyone will have a connected wall and live in micro-apartments the size of prison cells which will cost as much to rent as actual full-size apartments.
• Passive solar, heat pumps, and LED lighting on all new residential construction.
• XR telecommuting in the Metaverse in Zuckerberg's digital Second Life shopping malls to replace real commutes and office buildings (all office work will be digitized, paperless, and cloud-based to facilitate this).
  • Eventually, with implanted brain-computer interfaces, heavy goggles will be replaced with "seamless XR" where you can just close your eyes and step into the metaverse without using any energy to get there, or walk around your drab and boring micro-apartment and have other, illusory locales filled with imaginary wealth and substance layered on top.
• No more private ownership of computer hardware that uses more wattage than a tablet or subnotebook. All AI gains will be centralized in data centers owned by a few monopolistic giants to make sure that those AIs aren't used to replicate populist pleb values and ideas. Only approved government-corpo-academia communitarian ideas are allowed to be promoted by AI.
  • Nothing scares these people shitless like the idea of based AI proliferating and spreading populist ideas.
• AI teachers, AI babysitters, AI propaganda brainwashing, everywhere.
  • Destruction of the nuclear family and traditionalism. Children treated as "small adults" and wards of the state, subject to entirely centralized and digitized education. Homeschooling outlawed as dangerous and radical.
• Implanted digital ID linked to a CBDC. All bank cards, driver's licenses, and other forms of ID are no longer physical, but linked to a cryptographic hash stored in the nanotech in your body.
• Everything that is currently private property is subject to servitization. You don't buy a refrigerator or a washing machine. You subscribe to them. Everything is on a lease model. If you are cut off from banking for expressing radical no-no wrongthink badthoughts, you can no longer make payments on the things scattered around your bugman dormitory. This is what Ida Auken means by owning nothing and being happy. What it means is that the rich and their holding companies will own things and collect rents on them.
• No class mobility, ever. Born a pleb, die a pleb. You don't earn money. You are given monthly rations of UBI good-boy tokens for obedience to the state.
• What a green, restorative, circular/steady-state economy actually means in practice is that all the companies currently producing literal plastic garbage mountains of consoomer bullshit will make the same revenues as before while producing far fewer actual goods, because they'll make different people pay subscription fees to rent the same lump of matter.
  • In other words, it means deliberately arresting GDP growth and stretching the wealth we already have. Wealth creation is replaced with wealth management, i.e. rentierism.
• Since there won't be enough wealth to satisfy the plebs in this arrangement, there need to be far fewer plebs to distribute the wealth to (i.e. depopulation).
• Robots will create a larger and larger share of all new wealth, eventually making human wage labor irrelevant. As the population contracts due to depopulation, so too do the various services that robots would otherwise need to provide, like maintaining container ships and other transport infrastructure.
  • Automated infrastructure will become increasingly inhuman, autarkic, and self-maintaining. Tasks that robots are poor at will be minimized, and the entire economy will be restructured around things robots are competent at doing.
• Once human labor is fully irrelevant, the 1% will massacre the helpless and disarmed remainder of humanity and leave behind maybe ten million very wealthy psychopaths enjoying a post-scarcity free wealth cornucopia with their robots, frolicking on empty beaches, tearing down the hollow husks of our cities and replacing them with mansions, and so on.

Just one slight issue with this plan.

Who will be the emperor of this empire they plan to create? Because there only gets to be one emperor. And that emperor has every reason to purge the absolute fuck out of his competitors and what do you know there are an army of plebs who want revenge instant mass army for anyone who asks for it.