Is "Legend of Korra" any good?

[Stargazer]

Some comments were made about "Legend of Korra" in another thread. I wanted to respond to them but felt that it would be a bit off topic there, so I figured I would just make another thread for it.

I'm a fan of Avatar The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra, it's one of my favorite things. I grew up with ATLA airing on Nickelodeon, and was right in the target age when it premiered (which was 16 years ago... darn I'm getting old). When Legend of Korra came out, it almost felt like the franchise was growing up with me. I always liked LOK. I liked that it was a new generation of characters in the Avatar world, I liked the leap forward to a new era. And importantly, I liked Korra as a character. I loved how fierce and confident she was, while clearly being a character who had a lot of growing to do.

Needless to say though, LOK is rather divisive among people who count themselves as fans of ATLA. A fair amount of it is dislike of the format change - ATLA was one epic multi-season story, while LoK was first conceived as a single season miniseries that ended up having several seasons added with relatively separate stories. I think it's fair to prefer ATLA's approach over LOK's, but I don't think it's fair to say LOK is bad in itself simply for the choice of format. Plenty of shows take a season-by-season approach to storytelling and are considered good. If anything ATLA is a rarity in how it pulled off a single multi-season story arc.

The other criticism is about the characters, Korra in particular. She seems to rub people the wrong way. Like I said above, I do like Korra. I like how she's basically an inversion of Aang's character, as different takes on the "chosen one" trope. Aang is diplomatic, carefree, easygoing. He's the boy who never wanted to be the Avatar. Korra by contrast is confrontational, headstrong, driven. She's the girl who only ever wanted to be the Avatar. She had a lot of growing to do, of a different kind than Aang's. A lot of Korra's character development had to do with finding value and strength in herself beyond just her identity as the Avatar.

Now, if you just don't like Korra, you don't enjoy watching her, that's fine. You like what you like and there's no real arguing with that. But some of the reasons given for disliking Korra do at times seem...misplaced. So, some responses.

Everything else that happened, with Mary Sue vibes from Korra to virtue signal SJW themes,

When you say "Mary Sue vibes", what do you even mean? Because I don't see how the pattern of a Mary Sue really fits Korra. She's not some sort of self-insert, she is skilled at bending (like other characters from ATLA were, including Aang) but has challenges getting the hang of things like airbending and spirituality. And other characters don't just like her upon meeting her. And she screws up. A lot. And has to deal with the consequences.

I also don't know what you mean by "virtue signal SJW themes". There's the whole Korra and Asami holding hands thing at the end, sure. I wouldn't defend that, and book 4 is the weakest season overall in my opinion. But it's at the very end of the series, so I hardly think it ruins the rest of it. And there are some aspects of the show like the Equalists that I actually see as a critique of progressive social movements and the revolutionary zeal behind them.

I think the biggest problem was the characters. I can endure bad plot structure so long as I enjoy the characters, but I found that most of Korra's cast was unlikeable. Korra came off as a whiny brat who got everything handed to her and is incredibly irreverent and disrespectful towards her seniors such as Tenzin. Asami was very meh. Mako came off as whiny too often. The only tolerable main character was Bolin. The only characters I actually liked were and wanted to see more of was Tenzin, Varick, and... um... I'm struggling to think of another character I liked.

What makes Korra whiny, exactly? I don't think it's fair to say she had "everything handed to her", she did unlock three elements as a kid but the actual story is about other challenges and struggles she faces. And much of her childhood was spent isolated in a high security compound due to her guardians' decisions, rather than getting to travel the world like Aang did - hardly a healthy upbringing for a child.

As for her being irreverent and disrespectful... Yes. She's a headstrong girl and that results in her butting heads with authority figures at times. I don't hold that against her as a character though. For one I see that as part of the growing and maturing she has to do. And importantly, that maturing does happen in the story. But she also often has legitimate reasons for being upset with the authority figures (ie the aforementioned childhood isolation). She just tends to process and react to it in a less than positive way. But story makes sure to show that when she does eff up, she comes to realize her mistake, and apologizes to people like Tenzin and her father for pushing them away.

I'm also unsure how Mako is supposed to be whiny, too.

As for other favorite characters, no love for Lin Beifong?

I'm in general agreement with @Val the Moofia Boss. I wound up dropping Korra after the first few episodes because I strongly disliked Korra as a character (egotistical, way "cooler and more powerful" than Aang, disrespectful, undisciplined) and didn't find they were adding any other characters I wanted to watch, certainly none worth having to put up with looking at Korra for.

Like I said before, if you just didn't like Korra, if she made the show unenjoyable then sure, you don't have to like her. But I'm not sure where you got the idea that she's "cooler and more powerful" than Aang. She's different from Aang, certainly, but I don't think those differences are ever used to portray her as cooler than Aang. And the story picks up at a different point in her training than ATLA did with Aang, and Korra did unlock three elements as a kid, but she still had to train for years to actually master them, had more trouble with airbending then Aang had with any element, and in any case Aang reached the status of "fully realized Avatar" and saved the erro world when he was five years younger (physically) than Korra was when she first accomplished anything. So I don't know where you're coming from on that.

 

[LindyAF]

Honestly, I had sort of the opposite problem with Korra than the common complaints with "Mary Sues." IMO people overlearned the lesson "heroes/heroines need to be flawed! Otherwise, they're unrealistic!" bit. If someone is a main character in a work that has a fairly large scope, they're probably going to be one of the more significant figures in that world, maybe in that world's history. They should be larger than life, extraordinary people. Obviously they shouldn't be perfect, but I really dislike that it seems to me that far too many works of fiction have as their main characters loser stoners who are closer to the lowest common denominator than the cream of the crop.

This goes into why I think Korra rubs people the wrong way... Like, sure, she's a decent waterbender, earthbender, and firebender. But she doesn't really come off as anything special (besides the fact that being all three is something only she can do). I think part of the problem here might have been the pro-bending plotline, which got way too much attention. Most of the bending fights we see in season 1 (especially if we're just looking at ones in which Korra does well), are in a ring with fairly restrictive rules, so we don't really see her able to cut loose. But the impression I came away with was that she was mostly on par with the other pro-bending teams, and that they were decent benders but not exactly on par with Aang, Pakku, Katara, Toph, or Bumi level people.

And when she does do something big, it always came off to me as a handout. This starts in at the end of season 1, after she's lost everything but her airbending, and Avatar Aang's spirit (and the avatar state), just gives it all back to her, with nothing really done on her part. This continues in season 2, when after having lost the whole Avatar, she gets weird blue giant Korra powers? Powers that are somehow unconnected to the "Avatar" thing? Even before Amon, IIRC she lost fights to both the run-of-the-mill Equalists and Tarrlock (who admittedly used bloodbending, which she didn't know about), and had to be bailed out.

So this sort of comes full circle back to the Mary Sue bit... the issue with Korra isn't that she's too perfect or that she doesn't have any flaws. It's that she has too many flaws, and has to keep relearning the same damn lessons about being hotheaded, and after she learns that lesson she typically ends up just broken... but then it feels like the universe bends over backward to give her the W, or make sure there aren't as serious consquences for it , at least in the first two seasons.

But the big problem isn't Korra, it's the plot, and particularly Season 2. (Although I think Season 1, despite being the best season, sets the stage for a lot of the flaws that get worse and more apparent later on).

 

[Captain X]

I'm re-watching season 1 with my anime club right now, but I'm finding that my memories are off only in regard to Korra being a Sue throughout the whole season, which isn't quite the case. That is very much the case for the first few episodes, though. She can literally do no wrong in those first few episodes, and it's only when she first begins to fear Amon that she becomes less of a Sue. And when it comes to the other characters, there just isn't much to them except for Tenzen. Bolin in particular comes off as a simplified version of Sokka, who is silly to the point of ridiculousness. And speaking of Amon, I actually kind of liked him and the Equalists as antagonists, but I feel like the show was too cowardly to let them have a point and really cheated in regard to Amon himself (the twist at the end of the first season), and that they gave him what looks and functions as the dues ex machina energy bending but explained it away as something else.

And then there's the setting. It makes zero sense, and really rubs me the wrong way. It really doesn't help that it makes me wish I was watching Baccano instead. And as the show goes on, it really starts to retcon stuff set in the first show, and that really bothers me a lot. Not to mention how they are toward Aang later.

If you really want to know the problems in detail, I'd recommend the E;R reviews, though he is a lot more critical than I would be.

 

[Stargazer]

Honestly, I had sort of the opposite problem with Korra than the common complaints with "Mary Sues." IMO people overlearned the lesson "heroes/heroines need to be flawed! Otherwise, they're unrealistic!" bit. If someone is a main character in a work that has a fairly large scope, they're probably going to be one of the more significant figures in that world, maybe in that world's history. They should be larger than life, extraordinary people. Obviously they shouldn't be perfect, but I really dislike that it seems to me that far too many works of fiction have as their main characters loser stoners who are closer to the lowest common denominator than the cream of the crop.

This goes into why I think Korra rubs people the wrong way... Like, sure, she's a decent waterbender, earthbender, and firebender. But she doesn't really come off as anything special (besides the fact that being all three is something only she can do). I think part of the problem here might have been the pro-bending plotline, which got way too much attention. Most of the bending fights we see in season 1 (especially if we're just looking at ones in which Korra does well), are in a ring with fairly restrictive rules, so we don't really see her able to cut loose. But the impression I came away with was that she was mostly on par with the other pro-bending teams, and that they were decent benders but not exactly on par with Aang, Pakku, Katara, Toph, or Bumi level people.

And when she does do something big, it always came off to me as a handout. This starts in at the end of season 1, after she's lost everything but her airbending, and Avatar Aang's spirit (and the avatar state), just gives it all back to her, with nothing really done on her part. This continues in season 2, when after having lost the whole Avatar, she gets weird blue giant Korra powers? Powers that are somehow unconnected to the "Avatar" thing? Even before Amon, IIRC she lost fights to both the run-of-the-mill Equalists and Tarrlock (who admittedly used bloodbending, which she didn't know about), and had to be bailed out.

So this sort of comes full circle back to the Mary Sue bit... the issue with Korra isn't that she's too perfect or that she doesn't have any flaws. It's that she has too many flaws, and has to keep relearning the same damn lessons about being hotheaded, and after she learns that lesson she typically ends up just broken... but then it feels like the universe bends over backward to give her the W, or make sure there aren't as serious consquences for it , at least in the first two seasons.

But the big problem isn't Korra, it's the plot, and particularly Season 2. (Although I think Season 1, despite being the best season, sets the stage for a lot of the flaws that get worse and more apparent later on).

I think it's fairer to dislike Korra for being too flawed, and messing up too much, then to think she's some sort of Mary Sue who just succeeds at everything. I don't quite agree, but it at least makes some sense.

Sure Korra "doesn't come off as anything special" as a person, but I don't think Aang did either. And they make an explicit point in season 2 that the first Avatar, Wan, was just a regular person who achieved great things through his own courage and determination. So I'm not really sure what your expectation is in this regard.

I'll admit at first glance the ending of Book 1 can seem rather quick and convenient. But I think if you take a step back and think about it, it makes sense and holds up. Korra has been trying to make a spiritual breakthrough all season. There's an interpretation that when Korra runs off to the cliff, it's not just to look sad and have a good cry. The thought of losing her connection to the elements, of losing what makes her the Avatar, what she thinks gives her life meaning, it drives her to such a depth of despair that she's contemplating suicide. But she doesn't. She finds the will to live, and it's in that moment that she makes a spiritual breakthrough, calls to Aang, and he appears. And once Aang appears, it makes sense that he could restore Korra's bending, as past Avatars have shown the ability to use bending when their spirit manifests, and energybending is elsewhere used to bestow and restore bending abilities.

I like that interpretation; I think it's enough to make Aang's appearance more than just "a handout". No it's not explicit, but thematically I think it's within the realm of possibility, especially given the murder-suicide that happens on screen literally two minutes earlier (and how Amon is a foil to Korra in a few other ways).

Book 2 is a continuation of these themes. Again, Korra has been trying to advance her spirituality throughout the season. She's faced with another moment of despair, this time in the middle of a world-threatening crisis. Raava, the Avatar Spirit, is destroyed. She has been relying on the Avatar State throughout the fight with Unalaq - without it, she thinks she's defeated. (And the past Avatars are the very thing that "bailed her out" last season.) But Tenzin helps her to see that she has her own inner strength, inner power, that isn't defined by Raava. By believing in that she's able to connect cosmic energy to her own spirit and face Vaatu.

That the manifestation of her strength is a giant blue spirit is a little...weird, I'll give you that. But the character arc all makes sense to me.

And there are still consequences at the end of season 2, as the connection with the past Avatars is lost permanently.

Also, can we just take a second to acknowledge that Jeremy Zuckerman's score for these scenes in LOK is incredible?

I'm re-watching season 1 with my anime club right now, but I'm finding that my memories are off only in regard to Korra being a Sue throughout the whole season, which isn't quite the case. That is very much the case for the first few episodes, though. She can literally do no wrong in those first few episodes, and it's only when she first begins to fear Amon that she becomes less of a Sue. And when it comes to the other characters, there just isn't much to them except for Tenzen. Bolin in particular comes off as a simplified version of Sokka, who is silly to the point of ridiculousness. And speaking of Amon, I actually kind of liked him and the Equalists as antagonists, but I feel like the show was too cowardly to let them have a point and really cheated in regard to Amon himself (the twist at the end of the first season), and that they gave him what looks and functions as the dues ex machina energy bending but explained it away as something else.

And then there's the setting. It makes zero sense, and really rubs me the wrong way. It really doesn't help that it makes me wish I was watching Baccano instead. And as the show goes on, it really starts to retcon stuff set in the first show, and that really bothers me a lot. Not to mention how they are toward Aang later.

Korra "can do no wrong" in the first few episodes? Umm. Lin is right there calling her BS for causing damage and running from the police in the first episode.

I kind of don't think the Equalists had a point. Amon was fundamentally irrational and driven by his own prejudices. He was seeking to blame all the world's problems on one group of people, and remove them from the world. Hmm, sounds familiar. It's a commentary on the various revolutionary movements in 20th century Earth, and arguably today, that are built on hateful ideologies and used to galvanize the masses to do horrendous things. It's a good thing that Korra stopped Amon.

I love the setting. How exactly do you think it "makes no sense"?

If you really want to know the problems in detail, I'd recommend the E;R reviews, though he is a lot more critical than I would be.

I've had a look at E;R's videos before. He's an idiot and a moron.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Like I said before, if you just didn't like Korra, if she made the show unenjoyable then sure, you don't have to like her. But I'm not sure where you got the idea that she's "cooler and more powerful" than Aang. She's different from Aang, certainly, but I don't think those differences are ever used to portray her as cooler than Aang. And the story picks up at a different point in her training than ATLA did with Aang, and Korra did unlock three elements as a kid, but she still had to train for years to actually master them, had more trouble with airbending then Aang had with any element, and in any case Aang reached the status of "fully realized Avatar" and saved the erro world when he was five years younger (physically) than Korra was when she first accomplished anything. So I don't know where you're coming from on that.

Right there. The cool "I'm the Avatar! You Gotta Deal with it!" attitude and bending three elements when still a toddler is enough to show she's got her hip attitude and is more powerful than Aang. Korra doesn't respect her elders, her elders respect her! Korra don't need no doors, she'll just earthbend holes in the wall if it's in her way. The only surviving member of the old cast sings her praises and contradicts those who dare to speak ill of her. Multiple experienced firebenders at once? Korra's so awesome she just tosses them all around like ragdolls.

 

[Stargazer]

Right there. The cool "I'm the Avatar! You Gotta Deal with it!" attitude and bending three elements when still a toddler is enough to show she's got her hip attitude and is more powerful than Aang. Korra doesn't respect her elders, her elders respect her! Korra don't need no doors, she'll just earthbend holes in the wall if it's in her way. The only surviving member of the old cast sings her praises and contradicts those who dare to speak ill of her. Multiple experienced firebenders at once? Korra's so awesome she just tosses them all around like ragdolls.

I don't know man. I'm fine with Korra being fierce and confident, I don't think it takes anything away from Aang. How many experienced benders did Aang take down all at once when he was 12? And really, how many kids would have acted the exact same way if they found out they had the powers of Superman or Wonder Woman when they were five? I like just about everything about that scene.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I don't know man. I'm fine with Korra being fierce and confident, I don't think it takes anything away from Aang.

I didn't say it took anything away from Aang, I said her cooler-than-thou attitude and showing how much more amazing her powers were even as a toddler made me dislike the character.

How many experienced benders did Aang take down all at once when he was 12?

In the first episode? None. In the second episode? One, Zuko, and Aang barely manages that and it takes him most of the episode to do it.

And really, how many kids would have acted the exact same way if they found out they had the powers of Superman or Wonder Woman when they were five? I like just about everything about that scene.

Kids that are brats and I don't like would act that way for sure.

We can go around all day because "cool" is a highly subjective term we'll never agree on. I personally disliked Korra's attitude and I associate her specific attitude and vast initial accomplishments with characters who are portrayed as being cool on TV.

 

[Stargazer]

I didn't say it took anything away from Aang, I said her cooler-than-thou attitude and showing how much more amazing her powers were even as a toddler made me dislike the character.

Again, I don't know. I don't watch that scene and think "Look how much more amazing she is than Aang!"

In the first episode? None. In the second episode? One, Zuko, and Aang barely manages that and it takes him most of the episode to do it.

All of ATLA happens while Aang is 12.

Kids that are brats and I don't like would act that way for sure.

I think it's harsh to judge any kids who would act that way to be brats.

We can go around all day because "cool" is a highly subjective term we'll never agree on. I personally disliked Korra's attitude and I associate her specific attitude and vast initial accomplishments with characters who are portrayed as being cool on TV.

You know why Aang has an arrow tattoo? It's the sign of being an airbending master. Aang was considered a master at age 12.
None of the other Air Nomad kids shown in flashbacks had tattoos. Do you dislike Aang for having accomplished that before ever even appearing on screen?

 

[Bear Ribs]

Again, I don't know. I don't watch that scene and think "Look how much more amazing she is than Aang!"

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

All of ATLA happens while Aang is 12.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I think it's harsh to judge any kids who would act that way to be brats.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

You know why Aang has an arrow tattoo? It's the sign of being an airbending master. Aang was considered a master at age 12.
None of the other Air Nomad kids shown in flashbacks had tattoos. Do you dislike Aang for having accomplished that before ever even appearing on screen?

I mostly judge characters by what happens onscreen. I judge Korra for the first five minutes of her screentime, not unknown things that happened when she was another age. I compare her unfavorably with Aang's similar periods of screentime. Similarly, I give Aang no credit for whatever undoubtedly wise things he likely did after the series was over, that's offscreen. Aang in flashbacks isn't seen telling the other airbenders how he's the airbender and they have to deal with it. He has a playful and humble attitude and tries to help others instead of puffing up himself and acting cool, so I like him there.

To illustrate, I'm sure when almost any human character was 6 months old there were extended 30 minute periods where they were screaming and pooping their diaper. I do not judge any such poorly on those unseen events but if they put on a show consisting of nothing but a baby screaming and pooping its diapers I would be displeased at the showrunner's creative choices and will dislike the show, even if it's unfair, because I do not want to watch thirty minutes a week of a baby screaming and pooping its diaper.

 

[Stargazer]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I mean that Aang accomplished a ton and bested many more experienced benders when he was only 12. Holding it against Korra that she was skilled enough to take down three "experienced benders" in her introductory scene, in the context of a test to finish her firebending training, seems petty by comparison. She's 17, that's five years behind Aang for the entirety of ATLA.

What do you think about Toph? Or Azula?

I mostly judge characters by what happens onscreen. I judge Korra for the first five minutes of her screentime, not unknown things that happened when she was another age. I compare her unfavorably with Aang's similar periods of screentime. Similarly, I give Aang no credit for whatever undoubtedly wise things he likely did after the series was over, that's offscreen. Aang in flashbacks isn't seen telling the other airbenders how he's the airbender and they have to deal with it. He has a playful and humble attitude and tries to help others instead of puffing up himself and acting cool, so I like him there.

To illustrate, I'm sure when almost any human character was 6 months old there were extended 30 minute periods where they were screaming and pooping their diaper. I do not judge any such poorly on those unseen events but if they put on a show consisting of nothing but a baby screaming and pooping its diapers I would be displeased at the showrunner's creative choices and will dislike the show, even if it's unfair, because I do not want to watch thirty minutes a week of a baby screaming and pooping its diaper.

I judge characters by the whole context of the story that's being told about the characters. So, I dunno, maybe that's another different strokes for different folks?

 

[LindyAF]

I think it's fairer to dislike Korra for being too flawed, and messing up too much, then to think she's some sort of Mary Sue who just succeeds at everything. I don't quite agree, but it at least makes some sense.

Sure Korra "doesn't come off as anything special" as a person, but I don't think Aang did either. And they make an explicit point in season 2 that the first Avatar, Wan, was just a regular person who achieved great things through his own courage and determination. So I'm not really sure what your expectation is in this regard.

It's more that Korra is brash, hotheaded, and has a fairly high opinion of herself, and then it doesn't really seem justified at all. That comes off a lot more annoying than Aang who if anything typically undersells himself.

And I disagree about Aang. This kid mastered airbending at 12 and at least learns three other bendings in a year. Also, there's stuff like him stopping a volcano with airbending in Season 1, without using the Avatar state. Aang is pretty consistently a powerful bender, and there are very few times I can think of where he's bending and his bending doesn't cut it, and more than a few times when the show displays Aang cutting loose and doing something pretty impressive. Again, I think the impression is also created by who they're hanging around. Aang seems like he's roughly keeping pace with best-in-the-world-in-their-field masters. Korra seems like she's roughly keeping pace with people who are decent bending athletes.

Also, having exceptional courage and determination is part of what I'm talking about here?

Multiple experienced firebenders at once? Korra's so awesome she just tosses them all around like ragdolls.

We don't even get names for any of these guys, though, and they're not really doing anything impressive.

I'll admit at first glance the ending of Book 1 can seem rather quick and convenient. But I think if you take a step back and think about it, it makes sense and holds up. Korra has been trying to make a spiritual breakthrough all season. There's an interpretation that when Korra runs off to the cliff, it's not just to look sad and have a good cry. The thought of losing her connection to the elements, of losing what makes her the Avatar, what she thinks gives her life meaning, it drives her to such a depth of despair that she's contemplating suicide. But she doesn't. She finds the will to live, and it's in that moment that she makes a spiritual breakthrough, calls to Aang, and he appears. And once Aang appears, it makes sense that he could restore Korras's bending, as past Avatars have shown the ability to use bending when their spirit manifests, and energybending is elsewhere used to bestow and restore bending abilities.

It would have been better if they'd done this, but either they didn't or they didn't do it very well IMO. Korra doesn't turn around, or take a step back from the cliff or anything that would signify she's made a significant decision to continue living. She just kind of collapses in place. When Aang comes along, she brushes him off at first, thinking he's Tenzin. It doesn't seem like she's had some sort of spiritual breakthrough. It just seems like she had a breakdown, and the universe bail her out as a result.

 

[Stargazer]

It's more that Korra is brash, hotheaded, and has a fairly high opinion of herself, and then it doesn't really seem justified at all. That comes off a lot more annoying than Aang who if anything typically undersells himself.

And I disagree about Aang. This kid mastered airbending at 12 and at least learns three other bendings in a year. Also, there's stuff like him stopping a volcano with airbending in Season 1, without using the Avatar state. Aang is pretty consistently a powerful bender, and there are very few times I can think of where he's bending and his bending doesn't cut it, and more than a few times when the show displays Aang cutting loose and doing something pretty impressive. Again, I think the impression is also created by who they're hanging around. Aang seems like he's roughly keeping pace with best-in-the-world-in-their-field masters. Korra seems like she's roughly keeping pace with people who are decent bending athletes.

Also, having exceptional courage and determination is part of what I'm talking about here?

Well there's no doubt that Aang was a powerful bender, but is that all that you meant by saying Korra seems like "nothing special"? I thought you meant something to do with her very character being larger than life. If we're talking about Korra's own bending power, I would point to how much of the fighting takes place in a city where Korra does need to exercise some restraint so as to not cause collateral damage (a point made back in ATLA, and in the first episode of LOK). Later on Korra shows she's no slouch with bending herself - in the battle in the bay of Republic City, Korra conjures a water spout, which was only demonstrated by the Avatar State or Master Pakku back in ATLA.

It would have been better if they'd done this, but either they didn't or they didn't do it very well IMO. Korra doesn't turn around, or take a step back from the cliff or anything that would signify she's made a significant decision to continue living. She just kind of collapses in place. When Aang comes along, she brushes him off at first, thinking he's Tenzin. It doesn't seem like she's had some sort of spiritual breakthrough. It just seems like she had a breakdown, and the universe bail her out as a result.

Perhaps it could have been done better, but I'm happy with what we got regardless. Aang literally says "But you called me here...you have finally connected with your spiritual self." The scene never fails to give me chills.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I mean that Aang accomplished a ton and bested many more experienced benders when he was only 12. Holding it against Korra that she was skilled enough to take down three "experienced benders" in her introductory scene, in the context of a test to finish her firebending training, seems petty by comparison. She's 17, that's five years behind Aang for the entirety of ATLA.

What do you think about Toph? Or Azula?

I think neither of them were onscreen screaming "Deal with it!" to her elders while bending three elements at once.

More specifically and less glibly, though, I didn't care much for Toph but could stand her since she wasn't the main character and was overshadowed by people I liked more. Seeing Toph humbled always gave me a smile. Her character was one-note, well more two-note. Toph was either kicking the universe in the balls and screaming "I am the greatest!" or the universe was saying "Ha ha, no" and kicking her back. Aside from the occasional blind joke Toph didn't do much else.

Azula I judge by an entirely different standard because she was a villain and thus uses a different ruleset than a hero, Azula was enjoyable to see onscreen as a villain but if the show acted as if she was actually morally in the right and a hero I'd despise it. Actually thinking on it, I think that Korra does feel very much like Azula except the universe treats her as the good guy for it. It's apt and I thank you as I hadn't made that connection before.

You seem caught up in power levels but that's minor to me, it's the attitude that irritates me. The arrogant "Deal with it!" attitude is many times more significant to my dislike of the character than "mastery of an element." Age doesn't matter much in context because it's time onscreen and actions taken that actually builds my appreciation for the character, not unseen years offscreen. If Korra took the exact actions but was 150 years old I'd still dislike her for those actions. I could stand Korra's bending three elements if I didn't dislike her personality, but she's thoroughly unlikeable. Especially in the greater context of the universe she's in, where elders are generally respected and virtues like patience, self-control, and discipline are shown as important and valuable.

I judge characters by the whole context of the story that's being told about the characters. So, I dunno, maybe that's another different strokes for different folks?

Indeed.

 

[Stargazer]

I think neither of them were onscreen screaming "Deal with it!" to her elders while bending three elements at once.

More specifically and less glibly, though, I didn't care much for Toph but could stand her since she wasn't the main character and was overshadowed by people I liked more. Seeing Toph humbled always gave me a smile. Her character was one-note, well more two-note. Toph was either kicking the universe in the balls and screaming "I am the greatest!" or the universe was saying "Ha ha, no" and kicking her back. Aside from the occasional blind joke Toph didn't do much else.

Azula I judge by an entirely different standard because she was a villain and thus uses a different ruleset than a hero, Azula was enjoyable to see onscreen as a villain but if the show acted as if she was actually morally in the right and a hero I'd despise it. Actually thinking on it, I think that Korra does feel very much like Azula except the universe treats her as the good guy for it. It's apt and I thank you as I hadn't made that connection before.

You seem caught up in power levels but that's minor to me, it's the attitude that irritates me. The arrogant "Deal with it!" attitude is many times more significant to my dislike of the character than "mastery of an element." Age doesn't matter much in context because it's time onscreen and actions taken that actually builds my appreciation for the character, not unseen years offscreen. If Korra took the exact actions but was 150 years old I'd still dislike her for those actions. I could stand Korra's bending three elements if I didn't dislike her personality, but she's thoroughly unlikeable. Especially in the greater context of the universe she's in, where elders are generally respected and virtues like patience, self-control, and discipline are shown as important and valuable.

Well at least you're consistent by not much liking Toph either. I love Toph, so I think there's some deeper different strokes going on here than just not liking Korra's attitude. And it's worth noting that that opinion of Toph puts you in the minority of ATLA fans as she's always been a fan favorite.

And I was responding to you specifically mentioning Korra beating three "experienced firebenders"; are you dropping that as part of your point? I've already covered her attitude and why it appealed to me, so we've just got to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Here's my 'hot take' on the Legend of Korra: it was going to lose no matter what. Why? Because it's going to be constantly compared to what people consider a masterpiece of western animation (Avatar: The Last Airbender).

When not being compared to ATLA, LoK is damn impressive by its own merits, just not to the level that ATLA set the bar.

 

[Bassoe]

Korra being a great fighter makes perfect sense given her origins. Aang went from being raised as a normal civilian child whose initial reaction to being told he was the Avatar was to attempt to run away, to being thrown into a World War with zero preparation, very few allies and trainers and most of the world hunting for him. Korra on the other hand, was raised since she was a toddler by a very successful secret society in their secret militia compound fortress, in a world where being known for having helped train the Avatar was a massive publicity coup, proclaiming the trainer as one of the world's best bending masters, and the secret society exploited the hell out of this to get her the best teachers available.

Then, her first actual mission in her Avatar-ing duties, being a great fighter wasn't actually useful and just made her easy for Tarrlok to manipulate into joining his task force/being a figurehead for his own power grab.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Korra being a great fighter makes perfect sense given her origins. Aang went from being raised as a normal civilian child whose initial reaction to being told he was the Avatar was to attempt to run away, to being thrown into a World War with zero preparation, very few allies and trainers and most of the world hunting for him. Korra on the other hand, was raised since she was a toddler by a very successful secret society in their secret militia compound fortress, in a world where being known for having helped train the Avatar was a massive publicity coup, proclaiming the trainer as one of the world's best bending masters, and the secret society exploited the hell out of this to get her the best teachers available.

Then, her first actual mission in her Avatar-ing duties, being a great fighter wasn't actually useful and just made her easy for Tarrlok to manipulate into joining his task force/being a figurehead for his own power grab.

Yeah, this contrast is one of the best things about the show. That and fighting against genuine PTSD in Season 4.

 

[Captain X]

Korra "can do no wrong" in the first few episodes? Umm. Lin is right there calling her BS for causing damage and running from the police in the first episode.

And yet she suffers zero consequences for it, talks back to anyone who calls her on anything, and the writing presents her as being entirely in the right.

I kind of don't think the Equalists had a point.

Uh, yeah, that's the problem. They should have in order to make more sense.

Amon was fundamentally irrational and driven by his own prejudices.

Amon was a fake.

I love the setting. How exactly do you think it "makes no sense"?

They went from ancient traditionalist world with the Fire Nation being the most advanced by using steam power to 1920s New York in a generation basically. This is driven entirely by one of the writers just liking that era and quite inappropriately utilizing it in this show.

I've had a look at E;R's videos before. He's an idiot and a moron.

Going to have to disagree with you there, like with pretty much everything else.

 

[Stargazer]

And yet she suffers zero consequences for it, talks back to anyone who calls her on anything, and the writing presents her as being entirely in the right.

No, I don't think the writing presents her as "being entirely in the right" for the damage she caused. Again. Lin is right there.

Uh, yeah, that's the problem. They should have in order to make more sense.

Do you also think that communists and Nazis had a point? Or did they not make sense?

Amon was a fake.

In a sense. His identity was fake, but he still believed in his cause. It's just that his belief was irrational and driven by his own trauma and prejudices.

They went from ancient traditionalist world with the Fire Nation being the most advanced by using steam power to 1920s New York in a generation basically. This is driven entirely by one of the writers just liking that era and quite inappropriately utilizing it in this show.

Thought so. No, it makes perfect sense. It's not unprecedented given the rate of advancement in our own world between 1850 and 1920. If anything, our world advanced faster than the Avatar world in that time period. Steam power had just been invented here while the Fire Main already had it for 100 years.

Going to have to disagree with you there, like with pretty much everything else.

Yeah, no kidding.

 

[Captain X]

And I can see now that it's pointless to argue with you, because you just refuse to accept any criticism of the show or its main character.