In the long term, just how utterly buggered are the Left?

[Lord Sovereign]

I'm surprised at the amount of people who think the left are going to be around forever. When something as simple as education reform is a death blow to them, that should reveal how unstable and weak they truly are.

Remember, all their success is built off their opponents not reacting to them. That doesn't strike me as genius, more absurdly lucky.

 

[Aldarion]

I'm surprised at the amount of people who think the left are going to be around forever. When something as simple as education reform is a death blow to them, that should reveal how unstable and weak they truly are.

Remember, all their success is built off their opponents not reacting to them. That doesn't strike me as genius, more absurdly lucky.

It is actually a genius, because the Left had through education and media basically conditioned people to feel like shit for opposing them.

 

[Cherico]

I'm surprised at the amount of people who think the left are going to be around forever. When something as simple as education reform is a death blow to them, that should reveal how unstable and weak they truly are.

Remember, all their success is built off their opponents not reacting to them. That doesn't strike me as genius, more absurdly lucky.

From what I gathered a modern period typically lasts around 300 years.

Modern periods are times where a civilization conducts massive social experiementation some of it has good results a lot of it turns out to be bad ideas. Modernity is the Apex of the lefts power in a civilization they will litteraly never be stronger outside of a modern period then in it.

Modernity started with the French revolution in 1799, so we have around 80 more years of this shit at least. That's what its going to take to firmly scar western civilzation so bad that people go ultra traditionalist and social experiementation becomes anathama to civilization because people get firmly sick of all of the chaos and bloodshed.

 

[Zyobot]

It is actually a genius, because the Left had through education and media basically conditioned people to feel like shit for opposing them.

Yeah, they really excel at the whole emotional blackmail thing, mostly via taking advantage of the average person’s kindness and desire not to make certain groups (e.g., trans people) feel “excluded” or “unwelcome”. Of course, the Left’s behavior as of late has also begun to wear at the public’s patience, and given how they tend to take miles when they were initially given inches, something tells me their mandate won’t last forever.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

It is actually a genius, because the Left had through education and media basically conditioned people to feel like shit for opposing them.

And they were only able to do that in the first place because their opponents let them.

These people are absolute morons who's worldview just doesn't reflect the nature of man or the wider world. They are a gaggle of imbeciles who, by some cosmic practical joke, have ended up holding the keys to Western Culture for the moment.

The real question is how could the Right of yesteryear have been so God damn stupid as to allow this to happen right under their noses? Granted, I partially blame liberalism corrupting their threat perception and leaving them open to persuasion, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Aldarion]

And they were only able to do that in the first place because their opponents let them.

These people are absolute morons who's worldview just doesn't reflect the nature of man or the wider world. They are a gaggle of imbeciles who, by some cosmic practical joke, have ended up holding the keys to Western Culture for the moment.

The real question is how could the Right of yesteryear have been so God damn stupid as to allow this to happen right under their noses? Granted, I partially blame liberalism corrupting their threat perception and leaving them open to persuasion, but that's neither here nor there.

I blame American Right for being too much into liberalism (that is, classical liberalism / libertarianism).

"Live and let live" doesn't work when the other side hates your guts and wants you dead. Frankly, reviving Spanish Inquisition would have been a better idea.

 

[Zyobot]

I blame American Right for being too much into liberalism (that is, classical liberalism / libertarianism).

"Live and let live" doesn't work when the other side hates your guts and wants you dead. Frankly, reviving Spanish Inquisition would have been a better idea.

Well, the French Revolution was what gave us the march towards "Muh equality!", which (due to cross-cultural exchange) eventually found its way here via the examples I cited earlier. And yes, I'm aware the American Revolution inspired the French one to an extent, but Classical Liberalism itself has been a net good, if you ask me or @Lord Sovereign.

In any case, the American Right is probably tradition's best hope for winning out now, so I'd expect them to swat aside the Neo-reactionaries and dictate the rules of engagement, for reasons I've already mentioned. So, less monarchies returning or the Catholic Church having political power again (especially since there's a good chance the Vatican gets destroyed in the chaos yet to come), and more rugged individualism, town-hall democracy, and a return to the spirit of the early Enlightenment (seeing as that's what the US was founded on). Granted, I wouldn't rule out "Ascendant America" taking cues from Great Britain on the macro-scale—namely, via promoting free trade across the West or setting up dominions outside of America Proper—though I ultimately think we can expect something closer to a Classically Liberal HRE equivalent or Bourbon Democracy with expansionist characteristics than an outright return to the pre-Enlightenment world.

 

[Aldarion]

Well, the French Revolution was what gave us the march towards "Muh equality!", which (due to cross-cultural exchange) eventually found its way here via the examples I cited earlier. And yes, I'm aware the American Revolution inspired the French one to an extent, but Classical Liberalism itself has been a net good, if you ask me or @Lord Sovereign.

In any case, the American Right is probably tradition's best hope for winning out now, so I'd expect them to swat aside the Neo-reactionaries and dictate the rules of engagement, for reasons I've already mentioned. So, less monarchies returning or the Catholic Church having political power again (especially since there's a good chance the Vatican gets destroyed in the chaos yet to come), and more rugged individualism, town-hall democracy, and a return to the spirit of the early Enlightenment (seeing as that's what the US was founded on). Granted, I wouldn't rule out "Ascendant America" taking cues from Great Britain on the macro-scale—namely, via promoting free trade across the West or setting up dominions outside of America Proper—though I ultimately think we can expect something closer to a Classically Liberal HRE equivalent or Bourbon Democracy with expansionist characteristics than an outright return to the pre-Enlightenment world.

Yeah, I expect you are correct. Unfortunately, as unless we get rid of Enlightenment, there is a very high probability of everything going pear-shaped again in a very short order. But if it is the best we can hope for, well...

 

[Zyobot]

Yeah, I expect you are correct. Unfortunately, as unless we get rid of Enlightenment, there is a very high probability of everything going pear-shaped again in a very short order. But if it is the best we can hope for, well...

Nothing short of nuclear war or Year Zero on a global scale can do that, I'm afraid. That, and even assuming we survive and rebuild from the Crisis of the 21st Century at all, a few centuries of (relative) peace and prosperity is probably the best we can hope for, given how short humanity's collective memory can be.

Despite that, America will almost certainly be well-remembered thousands of years into the future, judging by how the likes of Ancient Rome and Egypt remain household names today. Most people don't know much about them, of course, but even then, they're still vaguely aware that they were big players in the grand scheme of things that passed their cultures, customs, and contributions down to future generations who've long since built on them as a "foundation", of sorts. (e.g.: Roman law being the basis for Western legal traditions.) Whatever the case, I suspect the people of 20,022 will have long ceased caring about the things we're fighting over, with terms like "Enlightenment" and "Progressivism" meaning about as much to them as Guelphs and Ghibellines bashing each others' heads in do to us. (Basically, not much of anything, really, since people will have long forgotten about "Modernity" and moved onto issues of their own, by then.)

 

[Aldarion]

Nothing short of nuclear war or Year Zero on a global scale can do that, I'm afraid. That, and even assuming we survive and rebuild from the Crisis of the 21st Century at all, a few centuries of (relative) peace and prosperity is probably the best we can hope for, given how short humanity's collective memory can be.

Despite that, America will almost certainly be well-remembered thousands of years into the future, judging by how the likes of Ancient Rome and Egypt remain household names today. Most people don't know much about them, of course, but even then, they're still vaguely aware that they were big players in the grand scheme of things that passed their cultures, customs, and contributions down to future generations who've long since built on them as a "foundation", of sorts. (e.g.: Roman law being the basis for Western legal traditions.) Whatever the case, I suspect the people of 20,022 will have long ceased caring about the things we're fighting over, with terms like "Enlightenment" and "Progressivism" meaning about as much to them as Guelphs and Ghibellines bashing each others' heads in do to us. (Basically, not much of anything, really, since people will have long forgotten about "Modernity" and moved onto issues of their own, by then.)

You are assuming future humans will be capable of remembering anything.

 

[Floridaman]

I blame American Right for being too much into liberalism (that is, classical liberalism / libertarianism).

"Live and let live" doesn't work when the other side hates your guts and wants you dead. Frankly, reviving Spanish Inquisition would have been a better idea.

.... no, the libertarians told you to oppose the government bureaucracies in the first place.... instead every time they get implemented the “moderates“ refuse to abolish them, and every time they become control points the left use against everyone else.

 

[Aldarion]

.... no, the libertarians told you to oppose the government bureaucracies in the first place.... instead every time they get implemented the “moderates“ refuse to abolish them, and every time they become control points the left use against everyone else.

Government bureocracy is not the main problem, though. Main problem are the media and general propaganda system that is controlled by the Left.

And main problem with government is its control over the educational system.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

no, the libertarians told you to oppose the government bureaucracies in the first place.... instead every time they get implemented the “moderates“ refuse to abolish them, and every time they become control points the left use against everyone else.

And main problem with government is its control over the educational system.

You do know that the Federal Education system is controlled by a...bureaucracy?

 

[Aldarion]

You do know that the Federal Education system is controlled by a...bureaucracy?

Read what I wrote again: main problem is Left's control over the media. Education can (for now, at least) be done by homeschooling or in private schools (although I imagine Left is doing its hardest to get rid of that practice). But media are inescapable.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

But media are inescapable.

This is also becoming less and less true due to all the alternative sources now.

The problem is that we still need some way to reach the people that are happily trapped within the Leftist MSM.

 

[stephen the barbarian]

2024 will be a generational change in the leadership of both parties. the republicans have some people in the 35-45 yo group that they can move into positions. the democrats don't.

 

[Vyor]

I blame American Right for being too much into liberalism (that is, classical liberalism / libertarianism).

"Live and let live" doesn't work when the other side hates your guts and wants you dead. Frankly, reviving Spanish Inquisition would have been a better idea.

Tell me, what do you think the best way to remove crazy people from power is? Violence or Words?

 

[Scottty]

Tell me, what do you think the best way to remove crazy people from power is? Violence or Words?

The answer to that would depend largely on what means you had at your disposal.
"Power" in the political sense is something the crazy people have only because others give it to them.

 

[Vyor]

The answer to that would depend largely on what means you had at your disposal.
"Power" in the political sense is something the crazy people have only because others give it to them.

I disagree.

Mostly because violence has never actually worked in the past.

 

[Aldarion]

Tell me, what do you think the best way to remove crazy people from power is? Violence or Words?

Both, applied as necessary and as possible. Basically how the Leftists acted throughout history: they had smart people infiltrating universities and elsewhere, and dumb brutes cracking skulls and making sure nobody opposed them.

If you try either of these, alone, it will never work.