Imperalism

Lanmandragon

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As a historical force do you consider imperalism. To be bad,neutral,or good? Please justify and or explain why you hold this position.
 

CarlManvers2019

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As a historical force do you consider imperalism. To be bad,neutral,or good? Please justify and or explain why you hold this position.
TBH, most of the stuff I know regarding Imperialism is from my University, which even in the Philippines leans very Left

Simply put as far as I know, colonies exist mostly just for the mainland, people here are supposed to be exporters of goods back to the main country and to be taxed and consume and maybe not have much in terms of actual infrastructure or skill attached to the populace

Definitely no say in politics for themselves if the mainland says something

Though, I am pretty sure even guys like the Roman Empire had imperialism, how long did it take for those lands to officially become part of the Empire and have their own say?
 

Lanmandragon

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TBH, most of the stuff I know regarding Imperialism is from my University, which even in the Philippines leans very Left

Simply put as far as I know, colonies exist mostly just for the mainland, people here are supposed to be exporters of goods back to the main country and to be taxed and consume and maybe not have much in terms of actual infrastructure or skill attached to the populace

Definitely no say in politics for themselves if the mainland says something

Though, I am pretty sure even guys like the Roman Empire had imperialism, how long did it take for those lands to officially become part of the Empire and have their own say?
So do you think it's a good or bad thing? (The Romans genrally didn't intergrate folks unless convient. [See the Soci war] or politically xpident[Ceaser allowing Gauls into the Senate. To weight it in his favour].
 

Scottty

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As a historical force do you consider imperalism. To be bad,neutral,or good? Please justify and or explain why you hold this position.
The question as stated is too broad. There are various things that get called "imperialism" - and very often they have both good and bad elements.
 

CarlManvers2019

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So do you think it's a good or bad thing? (The Romans genrally didn't intergrate folks unless convient. [See the Soci war] or politically xpident[Ceaser allowing Gauls into the Senate. To weight it in his favour].
Probably depends on the time and way the occupation goes, or if they ever have any intention to really make them part of the empire or something

Also, I think the Romans did “romanization” on people
 

Lanmandragon

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The question as stated is too broad. There are various things that get called "imperialism" - and very often they have both good and bad elements.
Frankly Scotty that's a cop out and you know it. "Imperalism" in the modern context very very much. Refers directly and explicitly refers. To the European conquest of the world. Don't play bullshitsemantic games. Your better then that bro.
 

Lanmandragon

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Probably depends on the time and way the occupation goes, or if they ever have any intention to really make them part of the empire or something

Also, I think the Romans did “romanization” on people
So you realize I tottally said they didn't so right? Just only when convient for them and or important [Ceaser] folks wanted it. Of course ossmois would convert some. As the Roman culture was objectively superior to those around them. As demonstrated by them stomping on everyone around them for centuries.
 

CarlManvers2019

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So you realize I tottally said they didn't so right? Just only when convient for them and or important [Ceaser] folks wanted it. Of course ossmois would convert some. As the Roman culture was objectively superior to those around them. As demonstrated by them stomping on everyone around them for centuries.
Yeah and before any idiots make any talk about how the guys they conquered were innocent peaceful savages, I’m pretty sure they all were slavers too

Also, the Romans were the guys with most technologies compared to everyone else
 

Scottty

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Frankly Scotty that's a cop out and you know it. "Imperalism" in the modern context very very much. Refers directly and explicitly refers. To the European conquest of the world. Don't play bullshitsemantic games. Your better then that bro.
So not the Roman Empire then - but the British Empire, the French Empire, the Dutch and Portuguese trading networks, the Spanish looting and conquering spree across the New World, the German Empire, the Belgians...
A very mixed bag.

It's generally agreed that the Belgians were the worst.
 

Lanmandragon

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So not the Roman Empire then - but the British Empire, the French Empire, the Dutch and Portuguese trading networks, the Spanish looting and conquering spree across the New World, the German Empire, the Belgians...
A very mixed bag.

It's generally agreed that the Belgians were the worst.
Yep I only addressed the Romans because Carl mentioned them. This thread is intended for European(16th century) empiress. Which are the only ones objected to by the mainstream.
Sure the beligins we're dicks I was asking more in aggregate though.
 

Scottty

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But what is "generally agreed" isn't always what is actually true. The Spanish accidentally brought Smallpox to the New World...



In terms of sheer bodycount, that probably knocks evil king Leopold into a corner...

On the other hand, the Aztecs had it coming to them. Pity about all the other people who weren't Aztecs.
 

Lanmandragon

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But what is "generally agreed" isn't always what is actually true. The Spanish accidentally brought Smallpox to the New World...



In terms of sheer bodycount, that probably knocks evil king Leopold into a corner...

On the other hand, the Aztecs had it coming to them. Pity about all the other people who weren't Aztecs.
"True" isn't relavant here in asking for opionons. Albiet justified opionons but still opionons. So basically taken in it's entiertiy across the entire timeframe including all nation's. Do you think it was a net positive negative or neutral.
 

Scottty

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"True" isn't relavant here in asking for opionons. Albiet justified opionons but still opionons. So basically taken in it's entiertiy across the entire timeframe including all nation's. Do you think it was a net positive negative or neutral.
Net positive I suppose.
The British Empire spread the Protestant faith, the Protestant work-ethic, Anglo-Saxon respect for individual rights and limiting the power of rulers, across a wide swath of the world. Uncounted millions of people will be going to Heaven who would otherwise have gone to Hell.
On a more personal note - some of my own ancestors were apparently dirt-poor people who got a whole new start by moving out to the Colonies. The wise apple curses not the tree.

The Spanish Empire, on the other hand, spread the culture of 17th-century Spain across much of the world. A form of Christianity in which the gospel was obfuscated by superstition and ritual. A cruel philosophy of government.
The legacy of the conquistador is the mindset that wealth and prosperity are things to be gained by robbery and violence. Wealth is something other people just somehow have, and if you want it you need to take it from them.
When I look at the American Democrat party's new little mascot, AOC with her too-wide donkey-face grin, and consider her proposed policies in the light of history, I say: "Well, you would think like that, wouldn't you, little miss Cortez! Found some new Cities of Gold to plunder, have you?"

(In the long run the Spanish wrecked their own economy, and that of many other Old World nations, with the glut of silver they imported across the Atlantic. But that's another story.)

Even the Pinochet-fanboyism we sometimes indulge in on this forum, ironically of course, creeps me out on a certain level. It's the values and mindset of the Latinosphere seeping in and polluting the Anglosphere.
 

CarlManvers2019

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You know, one thing much of what I learned in history class for my country agrees on one thing

The Spanish did bring in advanced technologies and knowledge to the Philippines, but they were also huge assholes who sorta basically enslaved everybody who wasn’t white and sorta made a caste system of sorts

A barely educated spaniard will have more social status over a very educated and wealthy chinese-filipino, to the point they can scam everybody else into believing they’re extremely skilled based on being spanish
 

Scottty

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It should be noted that if we stick to the timeframe of the 16th-century, most of Africa does not enter the picture. The New World was where all the fun was - the Dark Continent got left until much later.
 

Lanmandragon

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It should be noted that if we stick to the timeframe of the 16th-century, most of Africa does not enter the picture. The New World was where all the fun was - the Dark Continent got left until much later.
16th-19th ie the age of colonialism. Opionons on specific periods or nation's are fine. Really though I intended to get an overview on the whole period.
 

Fleiur

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As a historical force do you consider imperalism. To be bad,neutral,or good? Please justify and or explain why you hold this position.
Neutral. When your country was the one being colonized. You cannot set aside the atrocities that your countrymen went through in the hands of the colonizers. Even if you acknowledge the good things.
 
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