Warhammer 40K How quickly would modern Earth capitulate to two full Space Marine Chapters?

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
I think they would win simply because they would have no qualms with completely wiping out the populace and after a continent gets glassed whoever is left would capitulate.

Yeah, but the point of the Astartes invading Earth isn't to "win at all costs", it's to obtain the demographic and economic power of the planet. Wiping out entire regions of the planet destroys both of those things. To put it shortly, nuking a planet you intend to conquer is mentally retarded. It's like trying to rob a bank, then opening with setting the money on fire.

The only reason you would go so far as to commit this widespread genocide is if you fear the political and/or military power of said planet and have no need for its demographic or economic resources. The Imperium will nuke a planet completely infested with tyranids or completely corrupted by Chaos, because the economic and demographic resources are already lost--and what remains is a political and military threat. Otherwise, they'd just start nuking any part of the planet that has any taint on it without bothering to send troops.

That's not to say they can't use orbital assets to assist in military campaigns--they can and would, but these would be mostly low-yield sort of stuff or attacking military targets or bunkers that are a threat, but not something the Imperium wants to capture for themselves. That really limits the sort of military utility that these ships provide, outside of logistics and intel.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Yeah, but the point of the Astartes invading Earth isn't to "win at all costs", it's to obtain the demographic and economic power of the planet. Wiping out entire regions of the planet destroys both of those things. To put it shortly, nuking a planet you intend to conquer is mentally retarded. It's like trying to rob a bank, then opening with setting the money on fire.

The only reason you would go so far as to commit this widespread genocide is if you fear the political and/or military power of said planet and have no need for its demographic or economic resources. The Imperium will nuke a planet completely infested with tyranids or completely corrupted by Chaos, because the economic and demographic resources are already lost--and what remains is a political and military threat. Otherwise, they'd just start nuking any part of the planet that has any taint on it without bothering to send troops.

That's not to say they can't use orbital assets to assist in military campaigns--they can and would, but these would be mostly low-yield sort of stuff or attacking military targets or bunkers that are a threat, but not something the Imperium wants to capture for themselves. That really limits the sort of military
But see while earth being fucked up for a few centuries would be a problem for us it wouldn't be an issue for the Imperium in the long term they would still get what they wanted.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
But see while earth being fucked up for a few centuries would be a problem for us it wouldn't be an issue for the Imperium in the long term they would still get what they wanted.

Time is money. That's centuries of unusable land, centuries of smaller demographics, centuries of chaos and rebellion from resentment caused by literally nuking the planet, and centuries of struggling institutional power.

There is no advantage to just nuking the planet. That's the strategy of someone who treats the discussion like a video game, where you suffer none of the consequences of your actions. The Imperium wouldn't do that. It's inherently irrational and counterproductive. For any official or ruler within the Imperium to suggest such a path, would be a sign of criminal incompetence.

It's the same strategy that Palpatine tried and it literally backfired.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Time is money. That's centuries of unusable land, centuries of smaller demographics, centuries of chaos and rebellion from resentment caused by literally nuking the planet, and centuries of struggling institutional power.

There is no advantage to just nuking the planet. That's the strategy of someone who treats the discussion like a video game, where you suffer none of the consequences of your actions. The Imperium wouldn't do that. It's inherently irrational and counterproductive. For any official or ruler within the Imperium to suggest such a path, would be a sign of criminal incompetence.

It's the same strategy that Palpatine tried and it literally backfired.
But the Imperium regularly does shit like that
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Regardless the space marines themselves could effortlessly take anything they wanted conventionally and short of tactical nukes qe would be incapable of stopping them
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
But the Imperium regularly does shit like that

In poorly written, novels or if it involves incompetent officers, sure it can happen. Does that mean that this is the way an Astartes chapter would approach the situation? No. They really have no reason to go nuke-happy.

Regardless the space marines themselves could effortlessly take anything they wanted conventionally and short of tactical nukes qe would be incapable of stopping them

No, they really can't. They literally lack the weapons and most major powers on Earth have enough firepower to take down Space Marines. They're fairly large, wide targets and their armor can't stop anti-armor weaponry. That means this boils down to logistics, which is simply not in the Imperium's favor. They don't have the troops, they don't have the armor, and they don't have the industrial base to outcompete the planet. Trying to do so is simply a recipe for disaster.

What the Imperium would actually do is conquer one of the lesser powers whose geography can easily be utilized for defensive purposes (to prevent an invasion from a coalition of Earth-bound nations), then leverage their space and technological assets to build a coalition to counter the West, grind them down, and finally break them. But that's a game of intrigue that will probably take generations to complete and means that they'd have to ally with trustworthy peoples such as the Chinese and the Russians.

It's better for the Astartes to join the table as the most hated faction than have the whole table against them. They could, for example, leverage their technological advantage to aid the Russians in Ukraine. Or to aid China in invading Taiwan. That's the sort of area where the Astartes can win because they don't need an occupation force, they don't need an incredibly large military, and their technological edge can see them through without immense losses.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
In poorly written, novels or if it involves incompetent officers, sure it can happen. Does that mean that this is the way an Astartes chapter would approach the situation? No. They really have no reason to go nuke-happy.



No, they really can't. They literally lack the weapons and most major powers on Earth have enough firepower to take down Space Marines. They're fairly large, wide targets and their armor can't stop anti-armor weaponry. That means this boils down to logistics, which is simply not in the Imperium's favor. They don't have the troops, they don't have the armor, and they don't have the industrial base to outcompete the planet. Trying to do so is simply a recipe for disaster.

What the Imperium would actually do is conquer one of the lesser powers whose geography can easily be utilized for defensive purposes (to prevent an invasion from a coalition of Earth-bound nations), then leverage their space and technological assets to build a coalition to counter the West, grind them down, and finally break them. But that's a game of intrigue that will probably take generations to complete and means that they'd have to ally with trustworthy peoples such as the Chinese and the Russians.

It's better for the Astartes to join the table as the most hated faction than have the whole table against them. They could, for example, leverage their technological advantage to aid the Russians in Ukraine. Or to aid China in invading Taiwan. That's the sort of area where the Astartes can win because they don't need an occupation force, they don't need an incredibly large military, and their technological edge can see them through without immense losses.


See I don't have that much faith in people to actually resist because real life shows most will boot lick rather than actually risk anything.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
See I don't have that much faith in people to actually resist because real life shows most will boot lick rather than actually risk anything.

Have you SEEN the Ukraine-Russian War? Ukraine went into that war with no real hope of winning and not only did they NOT fold like a house of cards, but they also fought back harder and even drove the Russians out of seized territory. Now they're having a prolonged war with them.

And Ukraine is a really shitty country. It has one of the most corrupt governments in the world. You'd be surprised how quickly the math changes in people's heads when you pull out certain factors.
 

Carrot of Truth

War is Peace
Have you SEEN the Ukraine-Russian War? Ukraine went into that war with no real hope of winning and not only did they NOT fold like a house of cards, but they also fought back harder and even drove the Russians out of seized territory. Now they're having a prolonged war with them.

And Ukraine is a really shitty country. It has one of the most corrupt governments in the world. You'd be surprised how quickly the math changes in people's heads when you pull out certain factors.

Did you SEE Iraq completely fold to ISIS? Or Afganistan? Sure there will be exceptions but lets not pretend thats a norm.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Did you SEE Iraq completely fold to ISIS? Or Afganistan? Sure there will be exceptions but lets not pretend thats a norm.

Iraq has been conditioned to fold to whomever is in power.

How did Afghanistan completely fold to ISIS? I don't remember ISIS being that much in control of the country.
 

The Original Sixth

Well-known member
Founder
Did you SEE Iraq completely fold to ISIS? Or Afganistan? Sure there will be exceptions but lets not pretend thats a norm.

Yeah, I did.

Almost like natives won't fight for a puppet government that they view as illegitimate. There is a difference between a state and a nation. Iraq is composed of a handful of ethnic-national identities, that's why when Bush tried to turn it into a Western democracy, it immediately started falling apart.

Sure, if the Space Marines invade Iraq, the war will last a whole twelve minutes as the brave Mujadeen fighters flee for the hills for some caves to hide in. That's not the same as invading a Nation-State that shares the same national identity believing itself to be under attack from a foreign power.
 

Aldarion

Neoreactionary Monarchist
Did you SEE Iraq completely fold to ISIS? Or Afganistan? Sure there will be exceptions but lets not pretend thats a norm.

Iraq and Afghanistan are tribal societies, where United States tried to forcibly impose their "holy, ever more holy, perfect" democracy.

Of course people will not fight for the government that had been imposed from the top and against their entire culture and tradition. Space Marines would be smart enough to leave local village elders and tribal chiefs in charge, instead of trying to impose some foreign insanity.

I mean, Iraq was literally the situation of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia in 1941.: you had a government that literally everybody saw as illegitimate, and so a minority of people were willing to fight for it, while the rest simply went home.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
No, they really can't. They literally lack the weapons and most major powers on Earth have enough firepower to take down Space Marines. They're fairly large, wide targets and their armor can't stop anti-armor weaponry. That means this boils down to logistics, which is simply not in the Imperium's favor. They don't have the troops, they don't have the armor, and they don't have the industrial base to outcompete the planet. Trying to do so is simply a recipe for disaster.
No, we don't.

At least not if you actually go with the canonical abilities of Space Marines and their armor.

Guided weapons? Won't work, the ECM in their armor would fry anything we have.

Man portable weapons? Space Marines could aim dodge anything a baseline human could do.

Tanks or other armor? A single bolter round would kill an Abrams.

Aircraft? Again, a single bolter round is more than capable of taking out essentially any aircraft that gets within line of sight. And Astartes can make the shot the first time, every time.

Insurgency? Every Space Marine is able to eat a humans brain and basically instantly learn everything they know. Language, codes, friends, strategies, tactics, relationships, networks, etc.

The global telecommunications system is in the hands of the Tech Marines within literally minutes of their arrival in orbit. Every satellite is either co-opted or removed as the first act and thus denies Earth GPS, surveillance capabilities, satellite communications, etc.

Nuclear weapons? Battle Barge sensors are able to detect and track nuclear warheads from orbit. Thus the weapons are localized and then either captured or removed as part of the opening moves, long before any good targets for them are within their range.

Earth also lacks anything to slow, deter, block, counter, or otherwise interfere with orbital strikes. This isn't 40k where the enemies have at least somewhat comparable technology and are operating on the same level.

Detecting power plants is fairly trivial, and with a relative handful of strikes you can knock out the power grid globally.

The Astartes call upon Earth to surrender and Earth either does so or it is conquered in a long weekend. Any large scale military formation is an easy target for orbital strikes. Any insurgency efforts get brain ripped.

Someone will be willing to play ball, a Librarian will make sure they are being honest, and the Astartes will support them as a local administration is established.

Short of Chaos deciding to interfere, nothing Earth could do would credibly slow, much less prevent, an Astartes conquest with the level of resources that the OP provides.
 

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Tanks or other armor? A single bolter round would kill an Abrams.

Aircraft? Again, a single bolter round is more than capable of taking out essentially any aircraft that gets within line of sight. And Astartes can make the shot the first time, every time.
Bolter round go boom.
 

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