Hezbollah fired anti-tank missiles on IDF bases, IDF responds with artillery fire into Lebanon

[GoldRanger]

Guys, there's a serious escalation in progress on the Israel-Lebanon border.

Hezbollah fires into Israel, IDF responds, as tension keeps mounting

No casualties or injuries reported in attack against IDF position near Avivim

www.jpost.com

Hezbollah fires anti-tank missiles at IDF base, vehicles in north

IDF returns fire as Lebanese terror group claims to have destroyed army vehicle; IDF tells local residents to enter protected spaces, instructs municipalities near along border to open bomb shelters; incident comes day after Nasrallah vowed response to Beirut drone attack attributed to Israel

www.ynetnews.com

So far no reported casualties.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Why'd they escalate?

 

[GoldRanger]

Why'd they escalate?

Hezbollah claimed that Israeli drones attacked targets in Beirut a few days ago. The images they showed are of small quad drones with 5 kg of explosives that are not of Israeli make (they actually appeared Iranian). Which doesn't mean it couldn't have been a Mossad operation or such.

The alleged targets were workshops for outfitting long range rockets with guidance kits.

Since Israel didn't confirm it sent the drones, we can't know for certain.

Lebanese PM condemns Israeli 'aggression' after drones crash in Beirut

Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri said two Israeli drones which crashed in a suburb of Beirut dominated by the Iranian-backed Hezbollah were designed to stir up regional tensions.

www.france24.com

Keep in mind that Euro outlets such as the above seem to be completely uncritical of the unproven Hezbollah claim that the drones are Israeli.

Hezbollah vowed to respond to the "Israeli aggression", and here we are today.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Hezbollah claimed that Israeli drones attacked targets in Beirut a few days ago. The images they showed are of small quad drones with 5 kg of explosives that are not of Israeli make (they actually appeared Iranian). Which doesn't mean it couldn't have been a Mossad operation or such.

The alleged targets were warehouses for outfitting long range rockets with guidance kits.

Since Israel didn't confirm it sent the drones, we can't know for certain.

Lebanese PM condemns Israeli 'aggression' after drones crash in Beirut

Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri said two Israeli drones which crashed in a suburb of Beirut dominated by the Iranian-backed Hezbollah were designed to stir up regional tensions.

www.france24.com

Keep in mind that Euro outlets such as the above seem to be completely uncritical of the unproven Hezbollah claim that the drones are Israeli.

Hezbollah vowed to respond to the "Israeli aggression", and here we are today.

That's unsurprising the Euros aren't fans of Israel in general.

 

[GoldRanger]

According to latest reports UNIFIL is attempting to intervene, the Prime Minister of Lebanon called for France and the US to intervene in order to prevent an escalation.

Fucking coward. A terror organization your country is freely hosting and supporting has used your territory to launch an attack against a more powerful neighbor, and you're running to mommy France so they'll get the meanie Israelis to stop retaliating. The fuck does France have to do with anything, what authority do the French even have to intervene?

 

[Bacle]

Frankly I'm surprised at how restrained Israel is when it comes to this sort of shit from Hezbollah and Hamas.

An artillery strike in response is rather mild, when they could have made Hezbollah and Lebanon pay a steep toll for this and their continued sponsoring of Hezbollah.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Frankly I'm surprised at how restrained Israel is when it comes to this sort of shit from Hezbollah and Hamas.

An artillery strike in response is rather mild, when they could have made Hezbollah and Lebanon pay a steep toll for this and their continued sponsoring of Hezbollah.

Yep if say Mexico started firing rockets into Texas. Freedom would get coming fast and hard. The Israelis are insanley disciplined for not just full on invading.

 

[Lanmandragon]

*be not get

 

[GoldRanger]

According to the latest statement from Israel:

• Hezbollah operatives fire 2-3 AT missiles at an IDF outpost and a military ambulance. EDIT: Reportedly, Kornet ATGM
• There's damage to IDF property but no IDF casualties.
• In response Israel has fired ~100 artillery shells into Lebanon and launched a few attack helicopter strikes.
• Bomb shelters are open and prepared to recieve civilians if needed, but for now the civilians on the Israeli side are instructed to stay in their homes. EDIT: Situation seems to be calming down, civilians told they can continue daily routine.

This is an image I found on the web of a Ze'ev military ambulance like the one that got hit:

 

[GoldRanger]

Seems like the event is behind us. Unless there's a subsequent flare-up, all that's left is to sift through the political fallout from this event, and tensely wait for the next time one of the sides escalates the semi-cold war...

An interesting aspect of this incident is the psy-ops. Lebanese and Iranian news outlets were claiming that a senior IDF officer was killed in the attack, and that 4 Israeli soldiers have been evacuated to a hospital by helicopter. Turns out all these claims were a bunch of bullshit as there were not even minor injuries on the Israeli side.

I also don't think there were any injuries on the Lebanese side either, actually.

 

[Kobold]

This is an image I found on the web of a Ze'ev military ambulance like the one that got hit:

Looks like a freaking APC.
Sad state that even Israeli military ambulances have to be armored.

I'm just waiting on the day that Hezbolah/Hammas does go full retard and the IDF pulls off the kid-gloves

 

[GoldRanger]

Looks like a freaking APC.
Sad state that even Israeli military ambulances have to be armored.

I'm just waiting on the day that Hezbolah/Hammas does go full retard and the IDF pulls off the kid-gloves

It's an ambulance variant of the Israeli-developed Ze'ev (Wolf) APC. It's armored because it was planned for evacuation of wounded under fire and such.

Wolf Armoured Vehicle - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[GoldRanger]

Ok what the heck Israeli news sources are reporting that the IDF staged an evacuation of fake wounded soldiers by helicopter to make Hezbollah believe that it achieved its goal of hurting Israeli soldiers and back off. There's a video of a bloody soldier being loaded via stretcher onto an IDF Blackhawk.

To my knowledge, this sort of deception is something completely unprecedented in modern warfare.

I am heavily inclined to believe the report. Aside from being reported via respected news outlets (only in Hebrew so far, I'm sure this will change), Israeli and IDF culture makes covering up any casualties over more than a few hours nearly impossible (physically impossible in the only military in the world whose soldier's mothers have their son's commanding officer on speed dial), and the public backlash from a cover up attempt would be scary.

Edit: IDF smokescreen helps contain Hezbollah attack

 

[khatun]

The sad thing about this is that, from my understanding, Hezbollah is basically doing everything the Lebanese government should be doing. Schools? Hezbollah. Handing out food and water to those in need? Hezbollah. The local people, even if they had nothing against Israel, would be pro-Hezbollah anyway because they're the ones who are around helping them. Hearts and minds, and all that jazz.

If Israel actually wanted to remove them from Lebanon they'd have to actually help Lebanon build up its economy, send aid missions, etc.

But that'd make it a touch more difficult to constantly push your border disputes to expand into resource-rich areas, so I doubt very much they're going to do that.

 

[GoldRanger]

The sad thing about this is that, from my understanding, Hezbollah is basically doing everything the Lebanese government should be doing. Schools? Hezbollah. Handing out food and water to those in need? Hezbollah. The local people, even if they had nothing against Israel, would be pro-Hezbollah anyway because they're the ones who are around helping them. Hearts and minds, and all that jazz.

If Israel actually wanted to remove them from Lebanon they'd have to actually help Lebanon build up its economy, send aid missions, etc.

But that'd make it a touch more difficult to constantly push your border disputes to expand into resource-rich areas, so I doubt very much they're going to do that.

Israel is under no obligation to help the Lebanese economy. Also Israel is not the US, it's a small country with a limited budget.

Also, Israel has never tried to "expand its borders to resource rich land", WTF.

 

[khatun]

Israel is under no obligation to help the Lebanese economy. Also Israel is not the US, it's a small country with a limited budget.

Also, Israel has never tried to "expand its borders to resource rich land", WTF.

The Golan Heights is internationally recognized as Syrian territory and it is currently under Israeli occupation, and Lebanon and Israel have had constant maritime border disputes.

Edit: Given the oil drilling they're starting to do in the Heights, I highly doubt they're going to willingly let go of it.

Edit 2: Although it should be noted that while some of the things during the syrian civil war they've been doing could be shady, they have been participating in humanitarian aid and evacuations there when they aren't poking at Iran or Iran isn't poking them.

Edit 3: Said maritime disputes are, you guessed it, related to oil and natural gas pockets in the Med.

Edit 4: It should be noted, however, that technically the reason the Heights are still under occupation is because there was no formal peace treaty with Syria, likely the reason why they still occasionally take pot shots over the border. At the same time, developing it and outright annexing it in all but name without a peace treaty doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Marduk]

The sad thing about this is that, from my understanding, Hezbollah is basically doing everything the Lebanese government should be doing. Schools? Hezbollah. Handing out food and water to those in need? Hezbollah. The local people, even if they had nothing against Israel, would be pro-Hezbollah anyway because they're the ones who are around helping them. Hearts and minds, and all that jazz.

That's not really how it works. Lebanese government and its services are quite dysfunctional due to its confessionalist nature, problems related to the same causes, and generally being barely a middle income country. But that doesn't mean they don't exist or work worse than in any other country with limited resources and so on.

What Hezbollah is doing is closer to what a hybrid between what some large churches in USA do, and also what some large businesses of old did. Essentially, they run alternative, semi-private public services for their favored social groups and also members\sympathisers\political target groups and so on. It's a lot, but still less than the government, and it's focused on a specific segment of the population.

Of course they also aren't doing it out of their kindness. The PR aspect is merely a start, it's not hard to guess why Hezbollah would need trusted hospitals of its own, and why an organization like Hezbollah would want to run as many schools as possible. I'm pretty sure that the curriculum there is not politically or ideologically neutral...
Long story short, they are cultivating and taking care of their own support base, in every sense of the term. In such a conflicted and competitive political scene as Lebanon, it's a smart, self interested move.

If Israel actually wanted to remove them from Lebanon they'd have to actually help Lebanon build up its economy, send aid missions, etc.

Lebanon is no Egypt or Syria, it's not poorer than few poorest southeastern EU countries. There is no sane reason why Israel would do that, especially Lebanon not exactly being a friendly or stable country.

 

[khatun]

That's not really how it works. Lebanese government and its services are quite dysfunctional due to its confessionalist nature, problems related to the same causes, and generally being barely a middle income country. But that doesn't mean they don't exist or work worse than in any other country with limited resources and so on.

What Hezbollah is doing is closer to what a hybrid between what some large churches in USA do, and also what some large businesses of old did. Essentially, they run alternative, semi-private public services for their favored social groups and also members\sympathisers\political target groups and so on. It's a lot, but still less than the government, and it's focused on a specific segment of the population.

Of course they also aren't doing it out of their kindness. The PR aspect is merely a start, it's not hard to guess why Hezbollah would need trusted hospitals of its own, and why an organization like Hezbollah would want to run as many schools as possible. I'm pretty sure that the curriculum there is not politically or ideologically neutral...
Long story short, they are cultivating and taking care of their own support base, in every sense of the term. In such a conflicted and competitive political scene as Lebanon, it's a smart, self interested move.

Lebanon is no Egypt or Syria, it's not poorer than few poorest southeastern EU countries. There is no sane reason why Israel would do that, especially Lebanon not exactly being a friendly or stable country.

Fair enough.

 

[GoldRanger]

The Golan Heights is internationally recognized as Syrian territory and it is currently under Israeli occupation,

Yes, Israel took it in a defensive war, not a war of expansion. It also doesn't have any resources to speak of, it's necessary only as a military buffer. You know,to help defend itself from the country that uses chemical weapons willy nilly and until recently had ISIS running around rampant?

and Lebanon and Israel have had constant maritime border disputes.

Interesting that the Golan Heights are "Syrian territory" rather than a dispute, but the internationally recognized maritime borders of Israel are "in dispute" rather than Israeli territory.

Edit: Given the oil drilling they're starting to do in the Heights, I highly doubt they're going to willingly let go of it.

Edit 2: Although it should be noted that while some of the things during the syrian civil war they've been doing could be shady, they have been participating in humanitarian aid and evacuations there when they aren't poking at Iran or Iran isn't poking them.

Edit 3: Said maritime disputes are, you guessed it, related to oil and natural gas pockets in the Med.

Edit 4: It should be noted, however, that technically the reason the Heights are still under occupation is because there was no formal peace treaty with Syria, likely the reason why they still occasionally take pot shots over the border. At the same time, developing it and outright annexing it in all but name without a peace treaty doesn't sit well with me.

I will forgive you because you simply seem to be ignorant, but Israel has achieved Europe-level per capita GDP and a prominent global role as a hi-tech exporter, both civilian and military, not because of any chase after "natural resources" (of which Israel always had very little). Israel has never attempted to rely on raw resource exports in its entire history. It does exploit its recently discovered offshore natural gas fields because they are there right inside legally recognized Israeli economic waters, and it would be idiotic not to simply grab them (not that they're large enough to do anything more than a mild power-up for Israeli economy). But your attempt to portray Israel as some kind of sinister expansionist force seeking to become the next Saudi Arabia just looks extremely ridiculous to anyone with even basic understanding of how Israel's economy works.

 

[khatun]

Yes, Israel took it in a defensive war, not a war of expansion. It also doesn't have any resources to speak of, it's necessary only as a military buffer. You know,to help defend itself from the country that uses chemical weapons willy nilly and until recently had ISIS running around rampant?



Interesting that the Golan Heights are "Syrian territory" rather than a dispute, but the internationally recognized maritime borders of Israel are "in dispute" rather than Israeli territory.



I will forgive you because you simply seem to be ignorant, but Israel has achieved Europe-level per capita GDP and a prominent global role as a hi-tech exporter, both civilian and military, not because of any chase after "natural resources" (of which Israel always had very little). Israel has never attempted to rely on raw resource exports in its entire history. It does exploit its recently discovered offshore natural gas fields because they are there and it would be idiotic not to simply grab them (not that they're large enough to do anything more than a mild power-up for Israeli economy). But your attempt to portray Israel as some kind of sinister expansionist force seeking to become the next Saudi Arabia just looks extremely ridiculous to anyone with even basic understanding of how Israel's economy works.

I admit to only really having surface-level understanding of any of the goings on across the atlantic due in part to apathy/goings on at home, so I do appreciate the elaboration.

Edit: The dispute/territory thing being directly from le wikipedia (I understand the nature of that being only as reliable as its editors), it described the maritime situation as disputes, but described the heights as recognized territory, save, recently, by the US.