Hezbollah fired anti-tank missiles on IDF bases, IDF responds with artillery fire into Lebanon

I admit to only really having surface-level understanding of any of the goings on across the atlantic due in part to apathy/goings on at home, so I do appreciate the elaboration.

You should also understand Israeli society a little better. Israel is extremely casualty averse. A single soldier that Hamas grabbed as a POW caused mass protests that lasted for years until one of the most hawkish prime ministers in Israeli history felt he had no choice but to agree to swap this single enlisted soldier for 1027 Hamas prisoners, all because of unrelenting public pressure that lasted for 6 years.

Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange - Wikipedia

Why did that happen? Because Israel is a conscript army, meaning that everyone is required to serve, thus every citizen either is, was, or knows something who is or was serving in a combat role. And seeing as Israel has freedom of the press and is democratic, it cannot simply suppress dissent...

What am I driving at? Can you imagine an army that like that marching on a conquest for oil?

Like with any realistic war, the casualties would inevitably start pouring in, especially if Israel went against some of its larger neighbours who have 5-10 times its own population. Unless the war is vital and the public views it as a matter of choosing between fighting (and accept some casualties) or have Israel's enemies succeed at committing genocide against it, the public will go ballistic.

That's how Israeli public and literature/historians/academia usually view Israel's wars - they are generally divided into "wars of choice" (which are considered in contempt) and "wars of no choice".

The Six Day War in which Israel took the Golan Heights is a good example of the latter, what in Israel we call a "war of no choice". That's because Israel stood on the brink of genocide by 3 different countries (or at least the Israeli public was convinced of it, those were days when Israelis were basically panicking en masse. Whether the Arab nations were capable of or even truly intended to carry out their threats is moot).

Ultimately that's what happened in 2006, after 121 soldiers died in Lebanon, even though the war was launched for a good reason with a good casus beli, eventually the public came to see it as a war of choice, and since there were comparatively many casualties and little gain this has caused a storm that forced the Chief of Staff to resign.

Accountability of military leadership exists in Israel.

How in the hell do you think they're planning to "expand their borders" with a society structured like that?

And I haven't even touched on the Israeli land forces poor projection capabilities.

Israel is not "expanding" any time soon or ever, unless you mean tiny chunks taken as buffers in defensive wars in which they were attacked first, in which case let them have their buffers, they earned them and deserve them.
 
You should also understand Israeli society a little better. Israel is extremely casualty averse. A single soldier that Hamas grabbed as a POW caused mass protests that lasted for years until one of the most hawkish prime ministers in Israeli history felt he had no choice but to agree to swap this single enlisted soldier for 1027 Hamas prisoners, all because of unrelenting public pressure that lasted for 6 years.

Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange - Wikipedia

Why did that happen? Because Israel is a conscript army, meaning that everyone is required to serve, thus every citizen either is, was, or knows something who is or was serving in a combat role. And seeing as Israel has freedom of the press and is democratic, it cannot simply suppress dissent...

What am I driving at? Can you imagine an army that like that marching on a conquest for oil?

Like with any realistic war, the casualties would inevitably start pouring in, especially if Israel went against some of its larger neighbours who have 5-10 times its own population. Unless the war is vital and the public views it as a matter of choosing between fighting (and accept some casualties) or have Israel's enemies succeed at committing genocide against it, the public will go ballistic.

That's how Israeli public and literature/historians/academia usually view Israel's wars - they are generally divided into "wars of choice" (which are considered in contempt) and "wars of no choice".

The Six Day War in which Israel took the Golan Heights is a good example of the latter, what in Israel we call a "war of no choice". That's because Israel stood on the brink of genocide by 3 different countries (or at least the Israeli public was convinced of it, those were days when Israelis were basically panicking en masse. Whether the Arab nations were capable of or even truly intended to carry out their threats is moot).

Ultimately that's what happened in 2006, after 121 soldiers died in Lebanon, even though the war was launched for a good reason with a good casus beli, eventually the public came to see it as a war of choice, and since there were comparatively many casualties and little gain this has caused a storm that forced the Chief of Staff to resign.

Accountability of military leadership exists in Israel.

How in the hell do you think they're planning to "expand their borders" with a society structured like that?

And I haven't even touched on the Israeli land forces poor projection capabilities.

Israel is not "expanding" any time soon or ever, unless you mean tiny chunks taken as buffers in defensive wars in which they were attacked first, in which case let them have their buffers, they earned them and deserve them.

Fair enough.
 
The Golan Heights is internationally recognized as Syrian territory and it is currently under Israeli occupation, and Lebanon and Israel have had constant maritime border disputes.

. . .

It should be noted, however, that technically the reason the Heights are still under occupation is because there was no formal peace treaty with Syria, likely the reason why they still occasionally take pot shots over the border. At the same time, developing it and outright annexing it in all but name without a peace treaty doesn't sit well with me.

The biggest reason the Golan Heights was seized, is that it is strategic ground. It provides an ideal site for observation, and a site for artillery to reach deep into Israel.
 
Ok what the heck :ROFLMAO: Israeli news sources are reporting that the IDF staged an evacuation of fake wounded soldiers by helicopter to make Hezbollah believe that it achieved its goal of hurting Israeli soldiers and back off. There's a video of a bloody soldier being loaded via stretcher onto an IDF Blackhawk.

To my knowledge, this sort of deception is something completely unprecedented in modern warfare.

I am heavily inclined to believe the report. Aside from being reported via respected news outlets (only in Hebrew so far, I'm sure this will change), Israeli and IDF culture makes covering up any casualties over more than a few hours nearly impossible (physically impossible in the only military in the world whose soldier's mothers have their son's commanding officer on speed dial), and the public backlash from a cover up attempt would be scary.

Edit: IDF smokescreen helps contain Hezbollah attack
Nice counter psy ops.

I figure if Israeli opposition love baiting Israel with PR attacks they would eventually wise up and counter it.
 
Ok what the heck :ROFLMAO: Israeli news sources are reporting that the IDF staged an evacuation of fake wounded soldiers by helicopter to make Hezbollah believe that it achieved its goal of hurting Israeli soldiers and back off. There's a video of a bloody soldier being loaded via stretcher onto an IDF Blackhawk.

To my knowledge, this sort of deception is something completely unprecedented in modern warfare.

I am heavily inclined to believe the report. Aside from being reported via respected news outlets (only in Hebrew so far, I'm sure this will change), Israeli and IDF culture makes covering up any casualties over more than a few hours nearly impossible (physically impossible in the only military in the world whose soldier's mothers have their son's commanding officer on speed dial), and the public backlash from a cover up attempt would be scary.

Edit: IDF smokescreen helps contain Hezbollah attack

Is that actually legal? I'm no expert on the laws of war and customs of war, but I do know that they explictly disallow any kind of ruse or disguise based on using medical or red cross imagery.
 
Is that actually legal? I'm no expert on the laws of war and customs of war, but I do know that they explictly disallow any kind of ruse or disguise based on using medical or red cross imagery.
It's military ambulances and such, used in their legally defined role... Except in a fake event.
Disguising something like a recon vehicle, ammo transport, or MLRS as an ambulance, or using an ambulance to transport troops around the frontline would be against those laws. But fake emergency is probably something not included in the laws because no one thought about it or had a reason to. After all, an empty military ambulance is protected by those laws too, so it's hardly abuse either.
 
The biggest reason the Golan Heights was seized, is that it is strategic ground. It provides an ideal site for observation, and a site for artillery to reach deep into Israel.
And it is a water source for large part of Israeli population.
 
Not really, Israel had access to the sea of Galilee before they seized the heights.
Which is fed by river Jordan which is fed by tributaries flowing from Syria and Lebanon, who were planning to divert the flow of some befor 1967.
 
Ok what the heck :ROFLMAO: Israeli news sources are reporting that the IDF staged an evacuation of fake wounded soldiers by helicopter to make Hezbollah believe that it achieved its goal of hurting Israeli soldiers and back off. There's a video of a bloody soldier being loaded via stretcher onto an IDF Blackhawk.

To my knowledge, this sort of deception is something completely unprecedented in modern warfare.

I am heavily inclined to believe the report. Aside from being reported via respected news outlets (only in Hebrew so far, I'm sure this will change), Israeli and IDF culture makes covering up any casualties over more than a few hours nearly impossible (physically impossible in the only military in the world whose soldier's mothers have their son's commanding officer on speed dial), and the public backlash from a cover up attempt would be scary.

Edit: IDF smokescreen helps contain Hezbollah attack


But why give Hezbollah what it wanted in an era of fake news? A fake video of wounded IDF soldiers these days would almost be as good as a real one.
 
But why give Hezbollah what it wanted in an era of fake news? A fake video of wounded IDF soldiers these days would almost be as good as a real one.
Israel cared more about de-escalating than PR. Whether it's a smart policy could probably be debated.
 
But why give Hezbollah what it wanted in an era of fake news? A fake video of wounded IDF soldiers these days would almost be as good as a real one.
1. Immediate tactical benefits of deescalation.
2. It did come out that it was fake, making Hezbollah look like fools.
 
2. It did come out that it was fake, making Hezbollah look like fools.

There's another contributing factor to this effect.


Israel deployed vehicles with dummy soldiers near the Lebanon border in the days before the incident.

Lebanese citizens (or Hezbollah) filmed them, then shared memes about them and laughed about the "incompetent" IDF soldiers being too scared to fight themselves, sending mannequins instead, and that Israel was stupid to think Hezbollah will fall for such an obvious trick.

A few days later Hezbollah falls for this obvious trick.
 
Al-Manar network, a media outlet affiliated with Hezbollah, has released a video of the moment of the Hezbollah attack yesterday. I'll repost as soon as a youtube video (or another friendly player) pops up.
 
Thank you, the video will be appreciated. Do you think a translation of the transcript will be available?
 
Don't know about a transcript.



There's also a video of the attack from the Israeli side which is close up, can't find it on youtube right now, but in that one you can see that the vehicle (not an ambulance apparently, a plain APC) keeps going after the alleged hit. The missiles probably missed.

EDIT
Here's the second video
 
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