Knowledgeispower
Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Well unless we held it in a town in Northern Alaska that somehow lacks TV, cell phone, and internet connections.
United States George Floyd Protests, Reactions and Riots
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
- Start date
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
I don't make the rules. The law made manslaughter for unintentional killing.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Manslaughter doesn’t apply to any unintentional killing, the exact details vary by state and by specific law, but generally the act which lead to the death must itself be illegal or show negligence or indifference to life.
Moreover, the forensic data suggests that Floyd’s death was not caused by Chauvin’s actions.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Wax all the legalese you want. I see it enough as manslaughter. I dislike the idea of it but when an accident happens and the law is applied the one on the receiving end can get fucked like MJ's doctor or some poor random son of a bitch because a careless idiot failed to look both ways before crossing the road.
I'd accept it if he gets let off the hook because of the drugs but you know how court cases can be utter bullshit.
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He was a couple minutes too slow in making the shift between restraining an erratic junkie who's resisting arrest with an angry crowd forming around him and rendering first aid to an erratic junkie who lost consciousness, with an angry crowd around him.
We will never know what exactly was going on in his head at the time, but it probably was plenty. He was put in a no-win situation at that point. Chauvin's biggest mistake (probably of his life) was what got him there- letting Floyd leave the car once he had him there, don't listen to stupid junkie, just pack him in and go, leave the dumb crowd behind to not be the star of a stereotypical "cop kills black man" video that's going to be aired across the country and get a quarter of it want his head on a pike. Floyd would probably die in the car anyway, and there would be an investigation, but without this being a national story, this would get stuck in the system as a statistic and that's it.
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Terthna
Professional Lurker
Regardless, we can all at least agree that convicting him of murder was beyond the pale. I suspect Chauvin will eventually get the verdict overturned on appeal; but not before the public gets tired of being angry about him, and moves on to something else.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
He was a very unlucky son of a bitch. If he knew he'd just let Floyd OD on the car and die.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
If Chauvin did commit a crime that lead to Floyd’s death, it wasn’t actually causing the death but failing to get medical aid for a sick man. Of course, when somebody is resisting arrest and there is an angry crowd around, it’s going to hard to balance that against claims (he might have been lying) of physical duress.
Is it manslaughter if an arresting LEO doesn’t get a sick suspect medical care fast enough and they die? Would resisting arrest mitigate that? These are the questions to discuss in this case, not the made up BS that Chaivin’s knee caused Floyd to asphyxiate.
Edit: I looked it up, it seems like the police called for an ambulance about a minute after Chauvin started putting his knee on Floyd, which was a few minutes after police first encountered him. That doesn’t seem like enough of a delay to constitute a criminal act.
Is it manslaughter if an arresting LEO doesn’t get a sick suspect medical care fast enough and they die? Would resisting arrest mitigate that? These are the questions to discuss in this case, not the made up BS that Chaivin’s knee caused Floyd to asphyxiate.
Edit: I looked it up, it seems like the police called for an ambulance about a minute after Chauvin started putting his knee on Floyd, which was a few minutes after police first encountered him. That doesn’t seem like enough of a delay to constitute a criminal act.
Even if Chauvin did in fact murder Floyd, this still wasn’t remotely a fair trial.
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The place where it became manslaughter over just restraining a suspect is when Chauvin paid more attention to the crowd than to the man under his knee.
Floyd might have died on his own in the back of the cop car on the way to the station or ER, given what else we know about his health at this point.
But it was Chauvin pulled him back out of the cop car, instead of hustling to the nearest ER or station to get back up/medical help.
He let himself get distracted from his duties when handling suspects and people under his physical control. I get that druggies can lying, resist, and spaz out without being in a health crises, but I also get that being a cop means you are supposed to be trained to ignore distractions like a crowd of people with phone's while handling a resisting or possibly in physical distress suspect.
None of this absolves Floyd of his crimes either, and frankly the idiot effectively killed himself while under police control, though not intentionally.
Neither Chuavin or Floyd were or are heroes; frankly they are two idiots who's collision has utterly changed the face of the US political landscape, whether we like it or not.
So...
A growing crowd of people who already don't like you, some more then willing to throw down, is not a bigger worry?
Turn your attention away and that is how cops die
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Chauvin literally did what he was trained to do. He put him in what was called 'the recovery position,' and was supposed to keep him there until the ambulance arrived, which is exactly what happened.
It would not have mattered if Chauvin had gotten off of Floyd 2 minutes earlier, not for Floyd's life or death.
If you want to criticize something about police conduct here, criticize the training.
He should never have pulled Floyd out of the back of the car to begin with; he had him contained and he was no threat. Chauvin should have headed for the station or ER, not pulled Floyd out on the ground right there.
He also had 3 other officers there, if you recall; they added to the fuck up by not handling crowd control and/or tell Chauvin to focus on the suspect by either trying to deliver medical care or get him back in the car to get him to the station/ER.
It was a chain of errors, not just one isolated fuck up, and that is on the part of Floyd as well, who is the one who took those drugs.
As I said, it was two idiots colliding and now we are all paying for it.
He could have also just gotten him to the ER instead of stopping and taking him out of the car.
His fellow officers could have also exercised some basic crowd control so Chauvin could focus on the suspect and not the cell phones.
As I said, it was idiots colliding and a bunch of errors cascading.
He kneeled on a man's neck until well after he was dead and from what I saw gave zero fucks the entire time. And while some of you seem content to just constantly bring up the fact Floyd was high and/or was going to die anyway, this doesn't matter because there is no way Chauvin knew any of that at the time. That was simply how he was treating a somewhat unruly man who had just complained about not being able to breathe, which, as you recall, was the reason they had taken him out of the SUV they'd already had him restrained in to begin with. Only to kneel on his fucking neck, because I'm sure that was conducive to him being able to breathe better, right?
ShieldWife
Marchioness
If anything, the crowd should be a mitigating factor in Chauvin’s alleged misconduct. It’s reasonable for Chauvin to be distracted when he was surrounded by a hostile crowd that could have become violent. Chauvin can’t ignore a crowd that might pose a danger to him and other police.
If there is a certain sentence that suspects can use to get the police to relax their control over them, then every resisting suspect is going to use that sentence.
The police actually did call paramedics reasonably early. Chauvin should have kept Floyd in the car, that is true, but that is a mistake that ended Chauvin’s life, not Floyd’s.
The police generally don't take people to the ER. They will almost always wait for EMTs to arrive.
There was more bystanders then cops, and we both know going hands on or anything it would make it worse.
The cops were trying to help him, because if he is saying he can't breathe in the vehicle they put him outside where he can breath until EMTs arrive.
Protocol and all.
You would make a horrible cop
That's a poor excuse, and now the negative image of police in certain communities is so much easier to understand if many depts operate on that methodology.
Location awareness and relocating are things, you know.
They didn't have to stop in a residential area to administer aid, instead of finding a gas station, or bank, or even a post office, or somewhere that might have more people willing to help render aid instead of gawk with phones and who might feel unkind about police.
The cops made some bad calls on where they chose to try to administer aid, and they had to know stopping in a residential area might lead to more confrontations than near/on/in a business or gov property.
Him being in or out of the car shouldn't have matter for his breathing, they could have put him in the recovery position in the back of the car instead of kneeling on him on the ground in full view of the public.
Frankly I take that as more of a complement than an insult; what makes you think I'd ever want to be a cop?
Doomsought
Well-known member
Actaully if they left him in the car, he could have fallen off the seat and injured his head, or drowned in his own vomit. Keeping him out of the car and restrained was for Floyd's good health.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Though, we do need cops, right? Unless you just want anarchy. You may not want to be one, but hopefully some people want to be cops - we shouldn’t make so many demands on them and hold them to such a high standard that people can’t reasonably meet it, especially with such a low paying high stress job.
Kneeling on his neck was not.