United States George Floyd Protests, Reactions and Riots

Zachowon said:
You also said if the officers said for them too. They would...
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I did not say they would, but I did not say they wouldn't either. You don't know if someone is able to kill someone in that moment, if the national guard is called to help police put down a riot there are many things that could play a factor, do the majority of people think that it is a justified protest, or do the soldiers think it is Antifa like terrorists.(For these sorts of protests most soldiers lean conservative so they probably don't know or are friends with Antifa rioters. Are the soldiers being directly attacked or not?
I gave the example of Kyle Rittenhouse, you don't know how they will respond.

However if a soldier refused to shoot terrorists that are attacking innocent Americans after being ordered to do so, that soldier should be court martialed. It has nothing to do with being a robot. As a soldier your job is to follow orders, the only excuse for not following an order is if your superior officer gives you a blatant illegal order, or something that violates the constitution. Shoot these peaceful protestors that haven't committed a crime, rape these village girls, etc. things of that nature. But being told to use force against criminals in order to protect government property, or people's lives. That is a valid order, and any soldier disobeying that should get the harshest penalty.
 
King Arts said:
I did not say they would, but I did not say they wouldn't either. You don't know if someone is able to kill someone in that moment, if the national guard is called to help police put down a riot there are many things that could play a factor, do the majority of people think that it is a justified protest, or do the soldiers think it is Antifa like terrorists.(For these sorts of protests most soldiers lean conservative so they probably don't know or are friends with Antifa rioters. Are the soldiers being directly attacked or not?
I gave the example of Kyle Rittenhouse, you don't know how they will respond.

However if a soldier refused to shoot terrorists that are attacking innocent Americans after being ordered to do so, that soldier should be court martialed. It has nothing to do with being a robot. As a soldier your job is to follow orders, the only excuse for not following an order is if your superior officer gives you a blatant illegal order, or something that violates the constitution. Shoot these peaceful protestors that haven't committed a crime, rape these village girls, etc. things of that nature. But being told to use force against criminals in order to protect government property, or people's lives. That is a valid order, and any soldier disobeying that should get the harshest penalty.
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I am telling you this.
The thing few US soldiers want it to be deployed on US soil and have to use thier small arms against fellow americans
 
Zachowon said:
I am telling you this.
The thing few US soldiers want it to be deployed on US soil and have to use thier small arms against fellow americans
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I'm pretty sure most soldiers don't want to be deployed at all. What sane person wants to go fight in foreign wars with nothing to gain, where there is a chance they can get killed or maimed, and have to spend months or years away from their family? They will still do it, because it is their duty. If they are ordered to shoot Americans obviously there will be heisitation, the stakes are also higher they will be thinking "are these people actually terrorists, are we just enforcing tyranny is the current government going to end the Republic and if we fire on these people will we be helping them? Or are these people communist insurgents that want to destroy America, if this happens will it cause more riots, will this cause a civil war?" There are 100 things that would probably go through their head, and the soldiers would make the choice. Most would refuse an order to obviously violate the constitution like going house to house to confiscate guns. But what about being deployed in D.C. to shoot at people protesting the election? Some may think those people are patriots who are concerned about electoral integrity, others will think they are a racist mob that can't accept that their candidate lose. In this situation with BLM race riots some might think that Antifa are terrorist anarchists that need to be stopped from destroying the livelihoods of innocent people, and public monuments. Others will think that BLM is concerned citizens being justifiably mad that African Americans are being disproportionately abused by the police. Those people might decide to not open fire on the Antifa terrorists.
 
King Arts said:
I'm pretty sure most soldiers don't want to be deployed at all. What sane person wants to go fight in foreign wars with nothing to gain, where there is a chance they can get killed or maimed, and have to spend months or years away from their family? They will still do it, because it is their duty. If they are ordered to shoot Americans obviously there will be heisitation, the stakes are also higher they will be thinking "are these people actually terrorists, are we just enforcing tyranny is the current government going to end the Republic and if we fire on these people will we be helping them? Or are these people communist insurgents that want to destroy America, if this happens will it cause more riots, will this cause a civil war?" There are 100 things that would probably go through their head, and the soldiers would make the choice. Most would refuse an order to obviously violate the constitution like going house to house to confiscate guns. But what about being deployed in D.C. to shoot at people protesting the election? Some may think those people are patriots who are concerned about electoral integrity, others will think they are a racist mob that can't accept that their candidate lose. In this situation with BLM race riots some might think that Antifa are terrorist anarchists that need to be stopped from destroying the livelihoods of innocent people, and public monuments. Others will think that BLM is concerned citizens being justifiably mad that African Americans are being disproportionately abused by the police. Those people might decide to not open fire on the Antifa terrorists.
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Aot kf soldiers want to be deployed. You get a good deal of Extra money, tax free. You get a good amount of extra disability if you get deployed. You can get a bunch of shit for being deployed.
Being deployed is what a lot of people want these days.

Shooting another American because thier politics are diffrent is not good, especially if they do not get violent with you. ROE and all. If an officer tells them to open fire and they are not attacked, he is getting court martialed.
If they are attacked? You are going to defend the brother or sister you swore and oath to defend the constitution with.

Unless they are physically being attacked, ROE on US soil is not as simple as it is over seas, ESPECIALLY of it is politically charged.
 
Zachowon said:
If they put soldiers that had seen combat together out there, the lives if the ones next to them come first.

Attack the soldiers you are asking for it.
Which us why they dojt...
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They still don't want to be using any heavy weapons on fellow Americans though. I mean small arms are bad enough but dear god I don't want anyone in this country being shot at by say M1 cannister ammo or MK17 grenade launcher
 
Knowledgeispower said:
They still don't want to be using any heavy weapons on fellow Americans though. I mean small arms are bad enough but dear god I don't want anyone in this country being shot at by say M1 cannister ammo or MK17 grenade launcher
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No soldier does either. But attack them and you open up such things
 
Zachowon said:
No soldier does either. But attack them and you open up such things
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Mind you 99+% of the time you roll out armor for anti riot work in the US(which in itself is a dang rare occasion)all you've loaded are some ammo for the MGs(which usually aren't actually loaded into the things to prevent accidents) and if you have a MK19 up top tear gas and smoke rounds for them. Unless it's a full out insurrection you're not loading anything that fires out of the main gun. And for many many good reasons
 
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Zachowon said:
Aot kf soldiers want to be deployed. You get a good deal of Extra money, tax free. You get a good amount of extra disability if you get deployed. You can get a bunch of shit for being deployed.
Being deployed is what a lot of people want these days.

Shooting another American because thier politics are diffrent is not good, especially if they do not get violent with you. ROE and all. If an officer tells them to open fire and they are not attacked, he is getting court martialed.
If they are attacked? You are going to defend the brother or sister you swore and oath to defend the constitution with.

Unless they are physically being attacked, ROE on US soil is not as simple as it is over seas, ESPECIALLY of it is politically charged.
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In this scenario they aren’t being ordered to shoot people because of politics but because people are committing violent crimes.
 
While obviously using the guard to try and clear the area or actually enforce the curfew would have issues and they're, as noted, basically security guards in uniform, surely they could still be used better than this? Why not use them them cordon off an area and trap the rioters in that pocket, the have the cops move in and arrest them? Riot tourists are a well known thing, if someone would just jail these people and keep them locked up, that would do a lot to limit the chaos.
 
Zachowon said:
Against the soldiers or?
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Against other civilians or police. If people are attacking the soldiers directly (more than just throwing stones, something that makes the soldiers think they are in danger) it does not matter what their orders are, many will shoot just to save their lives. The worst that could happen is a firing squad but that’s a future maybe if you do nothing while attacked you are much more likely to be killed.
Obviously if soldiers are attacked directly they will respond. But that wasn’t what me and Rgguy were talking about. The scenario we are talking about is closer like Antifa is lynching someone across the street the army has orders to not confront the rioters under any circumstances. Most soldiers won’t do the right thing and gun down the Lynch mob because they were specifically told not to. It’s the opposite of being told to confront someone, their orders were to not engage.
 
Zachowon said:
They are useful if you deploy them en mass and use more then infantry. Havjng Bradley's and Abrams rolling down the street would make then stop
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Tanks wouldn't do anything to help.
They enemy have molotovs and they aren't afraid to use them.
Tanks can't fire back because of ROE.

And this might just end up into another Tiananmen Tank Man scenario.
Not good press.

What we are facing are a bunch of idiots so absorbed in their ideology they don't give a shit about anything else.
The only thing that will stop these rampaging thugs is people with loaded guns in front of their business.
Because at the end of the day, these losers are all cowards who target people who can't fight back.
 
BlackDragon98 said:
Tanks wouldn't do anything to help.
They enemy have molotovs and they aren't afraid to use them.
Tanks can't fire back because of ROE.

And this might just end up into another Tiananmen Tank Man scenario.
Not good press.

What we are facing are a bunch of idiots so absorbed in their ideology they don't give a shit about anything else.
The only thing that will stop these rampaging thugs is people with loaded guns in front of their business.
Because at the end of the day, these losers are all cowards who target people who can't fight back.
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we all need some rooftop koreans
 
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