Gate opens up at Tulln 9/5/1683

[Chiron]

As the tin says:

King John III Sobieski and the troops of Emperor Leopold I find the Saderan Military at their rendezvous site when they arrive the next day.

The Saderans due to their Wyverns and scouts spot them coming to their base camp that they set up within Tulln and prepare to meet them. The Saderans due to their scouts also are aware of the Siege of Vienna and when the Holy League approached, the Saderan Generals were discussing how to proceed forward after taking Tulln and a bit of the surrounding before setting up camp.

One thing they do agree on is they took Tulln and they are keeping it. Ottoman Scouts have already informed Kara Mustapha of the situation at Tulln and the Wyvern Scouts were seen flying over Vienna, but did not engage any side.

Let the fun begin.

 

[ATP]

As the tin says:

King John III Sobieski and the troops of Emperor Leopold I find the Saderan Military at their rendezvous site when they arrive the next day.

The Saderans due to their Wyverns and scouts spot them coming to their base camp that they set up within Tulln and prepare to meet them. The Saderans due to their scouts also are aware of the Siege of Vienna and when the Holy League approached, the Saderan Generals were discussing how to proceed forward after taking Tulln and a bit of the surrounding before setting up camp.

One thing they do agree on is they took Tulln and they are keeping it. Ottoman Scouts have already informed Kara Mustapha of the situation at Tulln and the Wyvern Scouts were seen flying over Vienna, but did not engage any side.

Let the fun begin.

I like it - becouse 1683 level mean no easy victory for either side.When before 1500 Saderans woud stomp anybody,and after 1850 they must lost to every developed country.

How much Saderans was send? about 60.000? i would say,that they manage to repel allies,but need reinforcment.So,another 100.000 come,just in time to fight turks,who in mean time would take Vienna.
1684 - Vienna in Saderan hands after beating turks,they are in war against everybody.
Eventually,they get part of Austria,and all countries fighting them would be weakened.Austria would cease to be superpower - but,they probable hold Spain as a result.

Good for polish future - we would not agree to disband our army with Saderans nearby.

P.S Gate is about harem and monstergirls mainly - so remember to deliver handsome rich husbands for all Gate girls.

 

[Chiron]

Scenario 1:

King John III Sobieski with 27,000 men and 28 field guns, comes to the Tulln Plains and finds the area occupied by the Saderans.

The Holy Roman Army under Charles V, Duke of Lorraine, with 47,000 men and 112 field guns coming on a separate road also finds their way blocked.

The Saderan Army has firm control of Tulln and the plains, and has earthworks erected. The Saderan Commander Armandus Longinus has 120,000 troops on the plains and 100,000 more on the other side awaiting deployment.

The Earthworks means the Pike Squares can't be employed and a siege fight will have to commence unless the Saderans sally forth. But cannons at this time can only maintain a firing rate of one round every 6 minutes at best due to metallurgy techniques and explosive shot doesn't exist yet. A solid hit on a Century will do some damage, but not be decisive in and of itself. The Saderans will certainly be interested in captured pieces and send them back to their mages for analysis and reverse engineering.

A parley is had, words get spoken, and its on.

While the Holy League has the guns, it doesn't have the air or means to counter the Wyverns except in theory. And the horses of the cavalry are not use to dragons, so the Holy League's cavalry is spooked and routed, especially if the Saderans launch a well timed cavalry sally.

Still it isn't all one sided and the Saderans will be busy gathering up dead and wounded, interrogating prisoners, and collecting the spoils.

Bigger effect may be if they manage to kill or capture the Holy League's commanders.

What happens next depends on whether they cut a deal with the Ottomans to go North or engage them next.

Hmm, this might even lead to the Christian and Islamic World to unite in Holy War against the Pagan Saderans...

 

[ATP]

Scenario 1:

King John III Sobieski with 27,000 men and 28 field guns, comes to the Tulln Plains and finds the area occupied by the Saderans.

The Holy Roman Army under Charles V, Duke of Lorraine, with 47,000 men and 112 field guns coming on a separate road also finds their way blocked.

The Saderan Army has firm control of Tulln and the plains, and has earthworks erected. The Saderan Commander Armandus Longinus has 120,000 troops on the plains and 100,000 more on the other side awaiting deployment.

The Earthworks means the Pike Squares can't be employed and a siege fight will have to commence unless the Saderans sally forth. But cannons at this time can only maintain a firing rate of one round every 6 minutes at best due to metallurgy techniques and explosive shot doesn't exist yet. A solid hit on a Century will do some damage, but not be decisive in and of itself. The Saderans will certainly be interested in captured pieces and send them back to their mages for analysis and reverse engineering.

A parley is had, words get spoken, and its on.

While the Holy League has the guns, it doesn't have the air or means to counter the Wyverns except in theory. And the horses of the cavalry are not use to dragons, so the Holy League's cavalry is spooked and routed, especially if the Saderans launch a well timed cavalry sally.

Still it isn't all one sided and the Saderans will be busy gathering up dead and wounded, interrogating prisoners, and collecting the spoils.

Bigger effect may be if they manage to kill or capture the Holy League's commanders.

What happens next depends on whether they cut a deal with the Ottomans to go North or engage them next.

Hmm, this might even lead to the Christian and Islamic World to unite in Holy War against the Pagan Saderans...

Saderans repell Allies - agreed.Sobieski army,as calvary mostly,would manage to retreat in good order,german infrantry could be routed.
What next? Saderans wont conqer,so they attack turks next,probably just after they take Vienna.Turkish army routed,too.
Saderans keep Vienna,and take more and more german lands with evry year.

They keep defeating allies and turkish troops/magic,monsterns,vyverns/,but their opponents learn to kill monsters and vyverns/small navy guns on wagons,capable of targeting moving targets/,so eventually they are stopped.Let say,about 1700.
Till then,they would take most of Austria,part of Silesia,Croatia and some other balkan territories.

Results -
1.end of turkish-allies war.
2.weakened HRE,maybe title of emperor would be abadonned.
3.Poland never disband its army - so,we would be still politically in game.
4.Magic users/probably demihumans/ in Europe,used by everybody - first by catholics,becouse we never persecuted witches as much as protestants.
5.Guns and muskets in Sadera.

Good thing - europeans would fight mostly saderan,not themselves,at least till 1800-1850.

P.S most important are still rich handsome husbands for Lelei&others saderans girls!

 

[The Whispering Monk]

I know one thing it means! In 2020 we'll see a Troll man-packing an assault cannon!

The potential downfall for Saderan forces is that the Church may invoke the Devil in the appearance of the Saderan forces in such a way it unites most of the people against them. Heck, you might even see a cooperative effort from both Roman and the Ottomans. That's freeking' scary for the Saderans.

 

[Chiron]

I know one thing it means! In 2020 we'll see a Troll man-packing an assault cannon!

The potential downfall for Saderan forces is that the Church may invoke the Devil in the appearance of the Saderan forces in such a way it unites most of the people against them. Heck, you might even see a cooperative effort from both Roman and the Ottomans. That's freeking' scary for the Saderans.

Or we se Rory come to Earth and decide to stay followed by a few other Apostles...

Religious Wars will be interesting.

 

[ATP]

Or we se Rory come to Earth and decide to stay followed by a few other Apostles...

Religious Wars will be interesting.

Well,in 1920 soviets attacking Warsaw run,when they saw Holy Mary deflecting their schells from poles.Fun thing - polish soldiers saw nothing.
So,we would see Holy Mary on battlefields,if demigods come there.

 

[Agent23]

Gate tech levels were kinda inconsistent, they had a very roman feel to them, but IIRC some of their cities and castles had a more modern appearence/techlevel.

Do you think that their weapons technology just developed slower because of magic and the empire being top dog, thus people having less of a reason to innovate?

 

[ATP]

Gate tech levels were kinda inconsistent, they had a very roman feel to them, but IIRC some of their cities and castles had a more modern appearence/techlevel.

Do you think that their weapons technology just developed slower because of magic and the empire being top dog, thus people having less of a reason to innovate?

Of course.Imagine,that you have mages capable of wall-destroing spells and monsters good and massacring infrantry - why do you need muskets and guns then?
It would change about 1850,but till then Saderans really do not need new technologies.
Besides,roman tech was not bad.They could still fight enemy range units/bows was better then muskets in everything except armour piercing/
and in melee they would hold ,too.When they meet turkish infrantry without armour,they would butcher them.

 

[Chiron]

Gate tech levels were kinda inconsistent, they had a very roman feel to them, but IIRC some of their cities and castles had a more modern appearence/techlevel.

Do you think that their weapons technology just developed slower because of magic and the empire being top dog, thus people having less of a reason to innovate?

The Gods were deliberately slowing technological progression so that Humans did not wreck the world. Basically think of them as like the Priest Kings of Gor. There is quite a lot of technological growth in key areas, but not so much it challenges the Gods or poses a threat to the environment.

 

[Agent23]

The Gods were deliberately slowing technological progression so that Humans did not wreck the world. Basically think of them as like the Priest Kings of Gor. There is quite a lot of technological growth in key areas, but not so much it challenges the Gods or poses a threat to the environment.

So, the LN was translated in full?
I probably should read the whole thing, then.

 

[ATP]

So, the LN was translated in full?
I probably should read the whole thing, then.

Itami get most of his harem,and some other japanees get either catgirls or saderans ladies,so it is happy end.

 

[Agent23]

Magic and the various fantasy beasts are the only wildcard here, IMHO, Hussars with guns curbstomp a roman legion.
17th century Earth vs. Roman LARPers

Also, all of those weird demons and witches just might prompt the Pope to declare a new crusade to rid the Earth of what must be a satanic incursion.

If I were the Poles I'd be lobbying and paying him off to do just that.

Strategically, this can prove quite bad for the Poles, but tactically they can get a lot of stuff and sate their expansionist ambitions.

I am pretty sure that the other powerful countries in Europe will be salivating over access to the gate and all of the cool stuff, like pineapple-sized diamonds, Poles can get from the other side of the gate.

That Polish empire they wanna build better go up very, very fast.

Their relationship with Russia, meanwhile, will probably be a lot better since they have a whole planet to expand to.

 

[ATP]

Magic and the various fantasy beasts are the only wildcard here, IMHO, Hussars with guns curbstomp a roman legion.
17th century Earth vs. Roman LARPers

Also, all of those weird demons and witches just might prompt the Pope to declare a new crusade to rid the Earth of what must be a satanic incursion.

If I were the Poles I'd be lobbying and paying him off to do just that.

Strategically, this can prove quite bad for the Poles, but tactically they can get a lot of stuff and sate their expansionist ambitions.

I am pretty sure that the other powerful countries in Europe will be salivating over access to the gate and all of the cool stuff, like pineapple-sized diamonds, Poles can get from the other side of the gate.

That Polish empire they wanna build better go up very, very fast.

Their relationship with Russia, meanwhile, will probably be a lot better since they have a whole planet to expand to.

If they could win.
Legions would face western pikeman and hold,when massacring turkish troops.
Polish calvary would beat saderan one,but others? both austrians and turks would be hold or beaten by saderan calvary.
Add mages,monsters and wywerns as recon unit,and Saderans would winning for few years,till alliance of turks,austrians and poles would eventually stop them.

But,i could not see how Earth with 1683 tech could conqer Sadera.Iven if Moscow joined war against them.Al they coud do would be stopping them after they taken Vienna and some lands around.

P.S in 1683 it was still Moscov,not Russia,they officially changed name after germans take over in 18th century.

 

[Agent23]

If they could win.
Legions would face western pikeman and hold,when massacring turkish troops.
Polish calvary would beat saderan one,but others? both austrians and turks would be hold or beaten by saderan calvary.
Add mages,monsters and wywerns as recon unit,and Saderans would winning for few years,till alliance of turks,austrians and poles would eventually stop them.

But,i could not see how Earth with 1683 tech could conqer Sadera.Iven if Moscow joined war against them.Al they coud do would be stopping them after they taken Vienna and some lands around.

P.S in 1683 it was still Moscov,not Russia,they officially changed name after germans take over in 18th century.

Centurion Biggius Dickius: "Why are those armored birdmen that can not even fly but must ride horses positioning wheeled cylinders before us, is it a sign of surrender."

Boom.

Tightly packed ranks of Saderans get turned into paste by Chain shot - Wikipedia and possibly bar shot and primitive cartridge shots.

If anything, IMHO, cartridge shot will be developed faster.

Also, we have always called them The Russians, even if it was the Kievan Rus, Novogorod, or Moskovi.

 

[Chiron]

Centurion Biggius Dickius: "Why are those armored birdmen that can not even fly but must ride horses positioning wheeled cylinders before us, is it a sign of surrender."

Boom.

Tightly packed ranks of Saderans get turned into paste by Chain shot - Wikipedia and possibly bar shot and primitive cartridge shots.

If anything, IMHO, cartridge shot will be developed faster.

Also, we have always called them The Russians, even if it was the Kievan Rus, Novogorod, or Moskovi.

Guns killed few people at this time, the pike was the killer followed by route.

As it is the Saderans have the air and that will be enough to route the Poles and HRE at first till they develop specific tactics to deal with them.

 

[Agent23]

Guns killed few people at this time, the pike was the killer followed by route.

As it is the Saderans have the air and that will be enough to route the Poles and HRE at first till they develop specific tactics to deal with them.

This is over 30 years after the end of the 30 years war, and that saw extensive use of muskets, mortars and pistol-wielding cavalry.
Yeah, Pikes, especially if wielded by Swiss pike-men, were important, but IIRC the enemy ranks were usually softened up extensively by musket fire, or sent into panic by waves of pistol-firing cavalry.

One big problem for the armies back then IIRC was that they were mercenary, but not very professional, and the reason why (Swiss) Pikemen were so effective was their iron will and discipline.Janissaries were also very effective because they were very disciplined and far less likely to break under pressure or desert.

Soldiers, "followed the banner" and when it was captured they switched sides more often than not.
Desertions, while supposed to incur the death penalty, were commonplace and officers didn't care if the soldiers were vacant, as long as they were back and ready to fight.

 

[Chiron]

This is over 30 years after the end of the 30 years war, and that saw extensive use of muskets, mortars and pistol-wielding cavalry.
Yeah, Pikes, especially if wielded by Swiss pike-men, were important, but IIRC the enemy ranks were usually softened up extensively by musket fire, or sent into panic by waves of pistol-firing cavalry.

One big problem for the armies back then IIRC was that they were mercenary, but not very professional, and the reason why (Swiss) Pikemen were so effective was their iron will and discipline.Janissaries were also very effective because they were very disciplined and far less likely to break under pressure or desert.

Soldiers, "followed the banner" and when it was captured they switched sides more often than not.
Desertions, while supposed to incur the death penalty, were commonplace and officers didn't care if the soldiers were vacant, as long as they were back and ready to fight.

Muskets also took a bit to reload, and had lower velocity than modern bullets. So the Saderan Shield Wall will enable them to weather the first volley at which point they can throw their pila. But the 1st assault wave will be their more disposable canon fodder anyway which will allow them time to formulate a better plan.

The Wyverns, however, give the win to the Saderans and as you say, as the banners fall, the pike blocks and musketeers start surrendering, assuming they are allowed to in the first place and the Saderans don't misunderstand their intent to surrender.

 

[Agent23]

Muskets also took a bit to reload, and had lower velocity than modern bullets. So the Saderan Shield Wall will enable them to weather the first volley at which point they can throw their pila. But the 1st assault wave will be their more disposable canon fodder anyway which will allow them time to formulate a better plan.

The Wyverns, however, give the win to the Saderans and as you say, as the banners fall, the pike blocks and musketeers start surrendering, assuming they are allowed to in the first place and the Saderans don't misunderstand their intent to surrender.

The depth of infantry formations back during the 30 years war was between 10 and 6m with Gustavus Adolphus stretching them out and turning them into line formations, IMO the main idea is to encircle the main enemy formation with musketeers and light cannon and hit them with gunfire, then send in the pikemen and cavalry to slam head on into demoralized and depleted enemy formations and take them out.
The Romans, instead preferred far tighter column formations, and IMO those won't work all that well against armies of the post 1648 era.

Also, you have the purely psychological effect of massed gunfire.

When gunpowder weapons for example were first introduced, horses had to be trained to stay calm and not panic.

 

[Chiron]

The depth of infantry formations back during the 30 years war was between 10 and 6m with Gustavus Adolphus stretching them out and turning them into line formations, IMO the main idea is to encircle the main enemy formation with musketeers and light cannon and hit them with gunfire, then send in the pikemen and cavalry to slam head on into demoralized and depleted enemy formations and take them out.
The Romans, instead preferred far tighter column formations, and IMO those won't work all that well against armies of the post 1648 era.

Also, you have the purely psychological effect of massed gunfire.

When gunpowder weapons for example were first introduced, horses had to be trained to stay calm and not panic.

Not all copied that formation though and it did get defeated several times after Gustavus bought it. And there is still the fact the Saderans will have the air and fortifications with their own artillery set up upon which they can fight from.

So this will turn the fight in their favor quickly and allow them to capture guns and personnel. They also will have seized the arsenal of Tulln already with guns and powder stored in it as well.

Europe and the Ottomans can eventually learn to counter the Wyverns by altering their pike formations and adopting rifling more rapidly and improving bullets to shoot higher and be easier to reload.

But in the meantime, the Saderans will have gained a solid hold in Austria and adopting guns and experimenting on use of magical enhancements to guns.