Five minutes of hate news

[Jormungandr]

"bUt AmErIcA's HeALtHcArE sYsTeM iS nOt BrOkEn!"

Every time I see Americans say that, even people on this forum who try to make excuses like "get a better job for health insurance" or "there's Obama Care" and such, I fucking laugh bitterly.

"Oh, I broke my arm? Welp, I'm gonna be in medical debt for the next five years!"

Your system is shit. It's broken.

 

[LordsFire]

"bUt AmErIcA's HeALtHcArE sYsTeM iS nOt BrOkEn!"

Every time I see Americans say that, even people on this forum who try to make excuses like "get a better job for health insurance" or "there's Obama Care" and such, I fucking laugh bitterly.

"Oh, I broke my arm? Welp, I'm gonna be in medical debt for the next five years!"

Your system is shit. It's broken.

Yes, and what broke it was increasing attempts to centralize and nationalize it.

Since Obama care, some have described it as having the downsides of both private and single-payer systems, and the upsides of neither.

I'd not quite agree, but it isn't wholly inaccurate.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

"bUt AmErIcA's HeALtHcArE sYsTeM iS nOt BrOkEn!"

Every time I see Americans say that, even people on this forum who try to make excuses like "get a better job for health insurance" or "there's Obama Care" and such, I fucking laugh bitterly.

"Oh, I broke my arm? Welp, I'm gonna be in medical debt for the next five years!"

Your system is shit. It's broken.

Its really, really hard to have a social health system when basically everyone is morbidly obese, drug addicts, alcholics, smokers, or illegals. Or some mixture of the bunch.
Look at Britain, yeah sure you won't get into debt if you break an arm, but you're rolling a dice if you don't ever get treated in the first place, or a laughably incompetent migrant doctor fixes your arm in the wrong damned position.

 

[mrttao]

Yes, and what broke it was increasing attempts to centralize and nationalize it.

Since Obama care, some have described it as having the downsides of both private and single-payer systems, and the upsides of neither.

I'd not quite agree, but it isn't wholly inaccurate.

I literally remember seeing a live stream from congress where some demon rat went up and gave a speech that went like

> americans are too stupid to let us have single payer socialist healthcare
> so we are using obamacare to ruin healthcare and cause them such pain and suffering that they will finally let us implement single payer

and then every single demonrat in congress started cheering.
this video was never shown in any MSM. Only in some alt media outlets which were systematically shut down and taken offline.

I really wish I had saved a copy of it. I just never believed it would be taken down so I figured keeping a link to the site was safe

 

[Doomsought]

"bUt AmErIcA's HeALtHcArE sYsTeM iS nOt BrOkEn!"

Every time I see Americans say that, even people on this forum who try to make excuses like "get a better job for health insurance" or "there's Obama Care" and such, I fucking laugh bitterly.

Except this is not a case of the healthcare system being broken. This is an old athlete problem. Athletes often are forced to retire early because their skills are all things age can take away from them.

Also this isn't a broken leg, she is on life support. That is very much the expensive sort of equipment that is luxury medical care.

 

[Jormungandr]

Its really, really hard to have a social health system when basically everyone is morbidly obese, drug addicts, alcholics, smokers, or illegals. Or some mixture of the bunch.
Look at Britain, yeah sure you won't get into debt if you break an arm, but you're rolling a dice if you don't ever get treated in the first place, or a laughably incompetent migrant doctor fixes your arm in the wrong damned position.

The NHS's problems are threefold:
1. Government interference every few years, with most being complete reversals of previous decisions. It's literally like telling someone to drive right, then go back and drive left, then go back and drive right again. sigh
2. Mismanagement of finances. The guys running the upper echelons of the NHS are, to be frank, fucking clueless. They would rather spend several million on, say, giant granite rocks for hospital lobbies/decorations than spending on hospital upgrades, new drugs, and equipment. Or, ya know, even basic raises for staff.
The system itself is overly convoluted -- You have A reporting to B, who reports to C, who reports to D, when all you really need is A reporting to D directly. It saves time and money.
3. We've got too many people for the infrastructure to timely support. And, yes, it's not an "alt-right talking point" when the blame mostly falls on a) the NHS not being scaled as quickly as needed over the decades in comparison to how it has been and b) too many fucking "refugees"/migrants coming over and putting strain on the system. We have too many people, and it's also straining our electrical infrastructure, our roads, our water supply networks... pretty much everything.
Of course, saying this out loud has you labeled as being a "Nazi", but it's pretty much the truth.

At the moment, I'm on a treatment path with the NHS -- I went from a GP referral, to a specialist, to a private high-end specialist all on the NHS' dime, in about two years, with my treatment/diagnosis likely to be next year (so three over all). All it cost me were train ticket/petrol costs, which came in total to under £200.00.

It should've taken just one, or even under that, but the poor bastards are proverbially being swamped by the amount of work they have because, surprise surprise, there are too many fucking people in the UK for the current system.

In America? I'd be in medical debt until I died in like (hopefully) forty or so years. Literally.

Edit: Also, public health in America is pretty poor, but it is in the UK, too. We see expressions of this in things like "fat pride" -- sorry, I meant the (hijacked) "body positivity movement"-- instead of people just being more healthy and active.

Except this is not a case of the healthcare system being broken. This is an old athlete problem. Athletes often are forced to retire early because their skills are all things age can take away from them.

Also this isn't a broken leg, she is on life support. That is very much the expensive sort of equipment that is luxury medical care.

Sorry, but this is literally just another excuse I mentioned before; being ill shouldn't put you in medical debt for years, if not until you die, no matter what treatment or equipment are used.

I've seen happily married couples divorce (but stay together) not because they fell out of love or for some other reason (asinine or not), but because Partner A didn't want Partner B to be saddled with their medical debt when they died (even if it were in like ten, twenty years).

Your system is broken and is kept broken.

 

[Captain X]

Meanwhile in Canada, their socialized medical care is telling people to kill themselves rather than actually helping them.

 

[Jormungandr]

Meanwhile in Canada, their socialized medical care is telling people to kill themselves rather than actually helping them.

Yeah -- A lot of things have gone very wrong in Canada, and Castro's Love Child being an effective dictator is one of them; the medical system basically promoting euthanasia instead of treating people is another.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Meanwhile in Canada, their socialized medical care is telling people to kill themselves rather than actually helping them.

 

[mrttao]

I remember just going online and checking canada's official health website for the mandatory waiting time before a heart bypass surgery for a clogged artery and it was 18 months of mandatory minimum wait even if you got a doctor, he is just not allowed to perform the treatment until they waited for 18 months for you to hopefully die.

That was before they started literally murdering their patients instead of doing that roundabout waiting time trick to get them to die.

 

[Marduk]

Socialist shills for socialist medical system, news at eleven, complete with whining about muh capitalists. Bonus points for including whining about US interference against Russia's imperial projects into his whining about it, feels almost as if i time travelled to 1960's.
In reality:

Why conventional wisdom on health care is wrong (a primer)

Rich countries consume much higher quantities via higher intensity/tech. It's NOT high and rising: wages, profits, administration, encounters, etc. Income well explains American behavior here too.

randomcriticalanalysis.com

TL;DR US healthcare performs as expected in its circumstances. Which are exceptional due to US pattern of drug abuse, crime and obesity being exceptional in comparison to all other developed countries and causing extreme strain on the system, which then, through insurance not being allowed to discriminate, means collectivizing the average cost of obesity, blue city crime and drug abuse related cascading medical costs onto all insurance holders, making insurance expensive for all. The effect of such factors also fuck up outcome statistics, so that socialists can then say US has not only expensive healthcare but it also has bad results.

 

[Zachowon]

The NHS's problems are threefold:
1. Government interference every few years, with most being complete reversals of previous decisions. It's literally like telling someone to drive right, then go back and drive left, then go back and drive right again. sigh
2. Mismanagement of finances. The guys running the upper echelons of the NHS are, to be frank, fucking clueless. They would rather spend several million on, say, giant granite rocks for hospital lobbies/decorations than spending on hospital upgrades, new drugs, and equipment. Or, ya know, even basic raises for staff.
The system itself is overly convoluted -- You have A reporting to B, who reports to C, who reports to D, when all you really need is A reporting to D directly. It saves time and money.
3. We've got too many people for the infrastructure to timely support. And, yes, it's not an "alt-right talking point" when the blame mostly falls on a) the NHS not being scaled as quickly as needed over the decades in comparison to how it has been and b) too many fucking "refugees"/migrants coming over and putting strain on the system. We have too many people, and it's also straining our electrical infrastructure, our roads, our water supply networks... pretty much everything.
Of course, saying this out loud has you labeled as being a "Nazi", but it's pretty much the truth.

At the moment, I'm on a treatment path with the NHS -- I went from a GP referral, to a specialist, to a private high-end specialist all on the NHS' dime, in about two years, with my treatment/diagnosis likely to be next year (so three over all). All it cost me were train ticket/petrol costs, which came in total to under £200.00.

It should've taken just one, or even under that, but the poor bastards are proverbially being swamped by the amount of work they have because, surprise surprise, there are too many fucking people in the UK for the current system.

In America? I'd be in medical debt until I died in like (hopefully) forty or so years. Literally.

Edit: Also, public health in America is pretty poor, but it is in the UK, too. We see expressions of this in things like "fat pride" -- sorry, I meant the (hijacked) "body positivity movement"-- instead of people just being more healthy and active.

Sorry, but this is literally just another excuse I mentioned before; being ill shouldn't put you in medical debt for years, if not until you die, no matter what treatment or equipment are used.

I've seen happily married couples divorce (but stay together) not because they fell out of love or for some other reason (asinine or not), but because Partner A didn't want Partner B to be saddled with their medical debt when they died (even if it were in like ten, twenty years).

Your system is broken and is kept broken.

I can do a comparison.
I as a soldier get completely free Healthcare. Every US Taxpayer pays for it. Unless I go to off post places then it can cause me to be charged a little bit, (25 bucks) unless I get a referral from post and then free again.
That means everything from sick call to cancer treatment is paid for by the Army.
My wife is on my insurance but doesn't get free unless on post. She has medical bills due to us not knowing that if you ask for an itemized medical bill they will give it and you can argue and often get a lot off.
Add in the fact in some states you can literally pay a few bucks as that is all you have and thwy have to accept it.
It also doesn't effect your credit for some time.


Basically, while yes our health system isn't the best, it is better then what someone like me gets.
It took...like 2 months for me to get a dental cleaning, and then it took them 3 months out to schedule my wisdom teeth removal.
And unless it is life threatening they just give us Motrin and tell us to drink water.

 

[Doomsought]

If you get a relatively minor treatment, like stitches, in the US and don't be stupid about it, you won't go into huge debt.
Don't go to the emergency room or call an ambulance unless you need to- those are expensive for good reason. Use urgent care or clinics if you don't have an emergency.

 

[Zachowon]

If you get a relatively minor treatment, like stitches, in the US and don't be stupid about it, you won't go into huge debt.
Don't go to the emergency room or call an ambulance unless you need to- those are expensive for good reason. Use urgent care or clinics if you don't have an emergency.

Yep, urgent cate is your friend. A few bucks with insurance and MAYBE a few bucks after weeks latee

 

[Skitzyfrenic]

The problem with America's health system is that people don't know how to use it. They just jump straight to the expensive stuff because it's easiest.

Don't call an ambulance unless it is actually needed, for instance. They're hilariously expensive. Because they're meant for people who are likely to die enroute or need immediate trauma care. That's very niche, and requires a lot of skill. So they get to charge you fuckloads for it.

They have to treat you. If you need to receive medical care, they have to treat you.

They have a finance department. They want your money, so they will do whatever it takes to get as much as possible. If you tell them you can only afford $5 USD a month, they'll usually accept that.

Or just let it go to collections and do the same with the collector. I literally paid off $4k debt at $50 a month through a collection agency. Declare bankruptcy. There are tons of financial tools. My dad had something like $6k in medical debt, let it all go to collections, and then never answered the phone for like a year and while it's a stain on his credit score, he didn't pay a penny.

They do not have to sell you the caddilac treatments, you can get the basic treatment. They go for the mid and high end treatment because people expect it. You can talk them down if you know enough to know you can have the basic treatment.

Go to Urgent or Clinic care if you can, Emergency room costs extra.

Learn to self treat as much as possible. You don't need a doctor to tell you to put your sprained wrist into a brace and to go easy on it for a few weeks. Or to ice a major bruise. Or to use a heating pad on a pulled muscle/randomly tweaked back. Or to deal with the common cold or chest congestions unless your fever skyrockets, but even then all they're gonna do is put you on ice and shove a saline drip with meds into your veins. Cause they hospital and clinic will treat that, and charge you. For wasting their time with petty bullshit.

This covers like 90% of all short term non-grievous injury and sickness.

People in places with socialized healthcare should do these things too as to not waste taxpayer money, but they just go 'oh it's free' and end up causing strain on infrastructure, personnel, and budget.

Of course, having granite entrances and expensive gardens doesn't help either.

 

[Doomsought]

Don't call an ambulance unless it is actually needed, for instance. They're hilariously expensive. Because they're meant for people who are likely to die enroute or need immediate trauma care. That's very niche, and requires a lot of skill. So they get to charge you fuckloads for it.

Don't forget insurance costs. Once the sirens go on, the ambulance is exempt from a majority of traffic safety laws. That comes with a large amount of risk and they have much higher insurance premiums that you would have with non-emergency vehicles.

 

[mrttao]

The problem with America's health system is that people don't know how to use it. They just jump straight to the expensive stuff because it's easiest.

That is A problem but not THE problem.

There are many problems. Almost all of them come from the democrat plans which the republicans start protecting as soon as democrats pass them into law.
Democrats CREATED the HMO, and they claimed it was so that "everyone would have insurance"

You have the issue where hospitals and clinics charge a fuckton of money and then go
> you are in network. here is 90% discount for being in network with insurance
> insurance pays zero dollars
> you pay the remaining 10%

and that remaining 10% is a fuckton of money. how much you should have normally been charged.

Aside from the ER Though things are fucked elsewhere too
> out of hundreds of offers I got in 2023, all of them were HMO. zero PPO options
> I chose the biggest HMO insurance in USA
> most doctors don't work with it because they often do not pay
> must go to primary care doctor for a refferal every time or they do not pay
> they keep on denying claims for bullshit reasons
> 7/8ths of the listed doctors on their site don't even work with them anymore. spend hours finding one that does.
> oh your PCP's referral assistant forgot to explicitly tell us they want to allow you more than 1 visit to the referred to doctor.
> oh your PCP referred you with "unknown skin growth" and your dermatologist filed a "removed an inflammed mole". those are different conditions
> oh we just don't feel like it
> oh we just lied and claimed that the doctor did not include a referral and hoped you did not catch it
> oh we subcontracted processing this case to a 3rd party who does not have access to your insurance record so therefore we "mistakenly" claimed you did not do the required 6 weeks of physical therapy for an MRI even though the doctor diagnosed you manually with a torn tendon.
> oh, so you did do the physical therapy... we are still gonna reject it anyways for no reason at all.
> oh we only allow 35 physical therapy sessions per person regardless of how many separate injures they have.
> we only allow 40oz max of medicated shampoo bottles. even though that is only a 2 months supply and you need to use it in perpetuity
> arbitration takes weeks so I gotta delay new visits to doctor until the old one finally get out of arbitration and they are forced to pay because they are clearly in the wrong

I had to go through the song and dance of arbitration 8 different times this year already.

It is like pulling teeth and vastly slowing down visit rate. because I need to get them to pay for previous visit before I can schedule the next one.
And the costs are so insane if I don't.

incidentally. HMOs were recently reined in a bit in that the govt said they are allowed a max of 20% profit.
so all of them are operating exactly at that max. taking a 20% cut as they shuffle things around.

Honestly I would have come out ahead financially if obamacare did not force me to buy insurance and I worked exclusively with "cash doctors" who do not work with insurances

 

[ParadiseLost]

Part of the problem is that the system is set up specifically to create price inefficiencies via hiding the price.

Imagine if there were 6 groceries stores in the US - just Walmart, Target, Aldis, Publix, Hannafords, and Piggly Wiggly.

Except all of them are subscription based. Additionally, you aren't allowed to know how much most of the food inside the store costs until you subscribe... and then frequently, you aren't allowed to know how much the food costs until after you've bought it and eaten it and are legally obligated to pay.

And then beyond that, all of the farmers and even the grocery stores themselves are all under NDA to hide pricing information.

Even further beyond that, its economically incentivized for your employer to provide you with their negotiated insurance rather than you buying it yourself, so your insurance coverage is going to end up being fairly random based on what your employer felt would be good for their bottom line. And of course, all of how those agreements are negotiated is also hidden from you.

How inefficient do you think this market would become when nobody knows anything and its practically impossible to make a well informed choice?

IMHO NDAs over pricing information shouldn't be legal, its a terrible practice.

Edit:

Cosmetic services fees are pretty much entirely out of pocket. Look at the difference the ability to make informed decisions makes.

Without freely available information, no market is free. Always remember that, and that's why you should never trust people who claim to care about the free market but hate free information.

 

[TheRejectionist]

 

[Jormungandr]

tl;dr?