Five minutes of hate news

[Captain X]

What exactly do you think is wrong Im having a hard time even grasping it. Because literally everyone else in the conversation seems to think its free speech issue why reading back on your previous post you think its something else.

It looks like to me you somehow think its slander and that because the team name is Indians all native american tribes would have to give permission for it to be okay. Then you started talking about how bad the fans of other teams are.

And also fans of the team with the name, actually.

Did I get all of your issues right am I correct in what your arguments are?

I'm not sure exactly why you don't seem to grasp the concept of why Natives would have a problem with this. You have the historical aspect, there is indeed a slander aspect, and just a real lack of respect (while claiming otherwise) and sense of entitlement with using someone else's name to represent themselves, and further to merchandise it and make money off of it. And yet people like you insist that we should be cool with it, because other people are, apparently, and because you ignore these other aspects, apparently. It's kind of darkly humorous to me that after decades of getting told off because these sports fans don't really care about how the people who are being represented here feel about this representation, that I'm now supposed to care because these teams finally caved and changed their names. Even better is that for decades, no one gave a shit about Natives being mad about it, and it only became important after some white people got mad about it (or at least non-Native). So, no, I'm not sorry to see these teams change their names, and I don't care about all the people being butthurt about the names being changed. The issue of these sports teams using these names is not a free speech issue because it is not a matter of private individuals being assholes, this is a matter of companies using it as something official, which is branded and sold, and being used as they are like it's no big deal. One of these is a racial slur, for crying out loud.

 

[Terthna]

You aren't making any kind of sense.

What I'm saying is that fans of the team are probably going to be very, very upset with Native Americans for ruining their fun; and if people like them were already doing thing like making fake severed Native American heads, it's unlikely that they're going to stop simply because the target of their ire is an actual ethnicity now, as opposed to just a sports team.

In short? Congratulations; you just made things worse for yourself by inspiring a bunch of jackasses to actively hate your ethnicity, instead of just being insulting towards it.

 

[Captain X]

What I'm saying is that fans of the team are probably going to be very, very upset with Native Americans for ruining their fun; and if people like them were already doing thing like making fake severed Native American heads, it's unlikely that they're going to stop simply because the target of their ire is an actual ethnicity now, as opposed to just a sports team.

So basically they're proving all the people accusing them of racism right. Incidentally, I've already seen this kind of thing unfold with the Sioux name. A lot of people at that university took the "hostile and abusive" declaration by the NCAA as a challenge. It did not help their case, and mainly serves to make them look like the whiny entitles assholes that they are. All things considered, not a lot has really changed in terms of Natives receiving negative treatment, and on the plus side we don't have the sports team using the name, even if the Arena (which is privately owned) stubbornly refuses to change its own signage.

In short? Congratulations; you just made things worse for yourself by inspiring a bunch of jackasses to actively hate your ethnicity, instead of just being insulting towards it.

No, not really. Again, you seem to be forgetting the history there.

ETA: Also, using what amounts to a "shut up if you know what's good for you" argument isn't terribly effective, or a very good look, for that matter.

 

[Bigking321]

How prevalent is the viewpoint among Native Americans that the sports team names are offensive?

My brother has been going to different reservations each summer for several years now and he's made a point to ask about it because he likes sports and was curious.

According to him the people he asked either didn't care at all or were fine with the team names.

Is there a large movement in the various tribes to get the names changed? I know the leftists want to get rid of them because they love being offended on behalf of others but is there a genuine thing there?

 

[Terthna]

"shut up if you know what's good for you"

You said it, not me. I'm just pointing out that now might not be the best time to push some sports fans into doubling down on racism; not when more and more people are on the brink of just not giving a shit anymore. I'm not saying this to threaten you, or to imply that I approve of what they're doing; my reputation on this forum ought to attest to that. Heck; I'm not a fan of sports either, so I'm also not coming at this from the perspective of a fan. My perspective is that (setting aside my freedom of speech issues with what's going on here) this is a Pyrrhic victory for you at best, and I don't see how you can see that as worthy of celebration.

 

[Captain X]

How prevalent is the viewpoint among Native Americans that the sports team names are offensive?

My brother has been going to different reservations each summer for several years now and he's made a point to ask about it because he likes sports and was curious.

According to him the people he asked either didn't care at all or were fine with the team names.

Is there a large movement in the various tribes to get the names changed? I know the leftists want to get rid of them because they love being offended on behalf of others but is there a genuine thing there?

As I said before, it all depends on who you ask. We're just people, too. I already mentioned that my Great Uncle was, if anything, kind of amused about it. Also as I said, of the three tribes the university were forced to ask by court order, around 80+% of the Spirit Lake tribe was just fine with it. There were accusations of voter fraud, votes for pay and things like that (there was a company out of Las Vegas very involved with this), but there was a very vocal group in support of it from that tribe. Standing Rock, on the other hand, felt very strongly against it, and refused to even play along with anything. But in all honesty, it might have gone a long way had the university actually bothered to ask any of the tribes without needing a court order for it, or, once the order had been given, exceeding the requirements of it by asking all the other Sioux tribes. But they didn't. Instead they acted very entitled to that name, and that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. This has also been an ongoing issue since the 1960s.

You said it, not me.

I'm pointing out what your argument comes down to. You do not have to spell something out to say it.

I'm just pointing out that now might not be the best time to push some sports fans into doubling down on racism; not when more and more people are on the brink of just not giving a shit anymore.

The irony of this is that white Americans, well, American culture and Western Civilization in general, are in the same position of being slandered in the same way. Well, the shoe is on the other foot now - how does it feel? One would think this might make you sympathize a bit, but it really hasn't. As for the timing - it's never the right time, is it? Again, this has been an issue for a very long time, and no one has ever bothered to listen, or pay any mind.

I'm not saying this to threaten you, or to imply that I approve of what they're doing; my reputation on this forum ought to attest to that.

I'm not calling your reputation into question - I am only trying to open your eyes to what you are basically saying.

Heck; I'm not a fan of sports either, so I'm also not coming at this from the perspective of a fan. My perspective is that (setting aside my freedom of speech issues with what's going on here) this is a Pyrrhic victory for you at best, and I don't see how you can see that as worthy of celebration.

Again, this isn't really a Pyrrhic victory - nothing has gotten any worse. Actually, it has gotten a bit better locally, because while there is still a dedicated group of obnoxious assholes, most of the people who were complaining have given up on it because the matter is settled and over. It's still the same team; they just have a different name now. Kind of a lame name that they passed over some pretty cool ones in favor of: Ice Dragons, North Star, and Barnstormers (this university has an aviation school) were among my favorites, but they seemed to want to avoid any names referencing the cold winters, northern location, or agricultural background of the region. So instead they're the Hawks now, and they paid a ridiculous amount of money for a very simple logo they could have hired one of their own art students to come up with, but that's just this university in a nutshell. Why not just waste money when the gubmint just keeps writing them blank checks? In any case, it may not be much, but it's something. And you know what? I kind of enjoy listening to the assholes REE about it. It is very much the same feeling I get when the leftists whine about not being able to do something, because in the end, they only succeed in making themselves look worse. I also appreciate the irony that those leftists are largely responsible for bringing about this change, too. Talk about a clown world. 🤡

 

[Terthna]

I'm pointing out what your argument comes down to. You do not have to spell something out to say it.

I realize that.

The irony of this is that white Americans, well, American culture and Western Civilization in general, are in the same position of being slandered in the same way. Well, the shoe is on the other foot now - how does it feel? One would think this might make you sympathize a bit, but it really hasn't. As for the timing - it's never the right time, is it? Again, this has been an issue for a very long time, and no one has ever bothered to listen, or pay any mind.

I'm not sure why one would think that, because if we're comparing, people actively trying to destroy American culture and Western Civilization seems a bit more threatening than sports fans insulting, demeaning, and/or building threatening effigies of your racial ethnicity. Maybe when they start actually physically attacking Native Americans, I'd see better where you're coming from; but as it stands, this seems rather petty.

In any event, my policy is that if someone wants to be a jerk, let them be a jerk; you don't have to associate with them. Feel free to call them out on it though.

I'm not calling your reputation into question - I am only trying to open your eyes to what you are basically saying.

I knew what I was saying the moment I said it; but I still felt it needed to be said.

Again, this isn't really a Pyrrhic victory - nothing has gotten any worse. Actually, it has gotten a bit better locally, because while there is still a dedicated group of obnoxious assholes, most of the people who were complaining have given up on it because the matter is settled and over. It's still the same team; they just have a different name now. Kind of a lame name that they passed over some pretty cool ones in favor of: Ice Dragons, North Star, and Barnstormers (this university has an aviation school) were among my favorites, but they seemed to want to avoid any names referencing the cold winters, northern location, or agricultural background of the region. So instead they're the Hawks now, and they paid a ridiculous amount of money for a very simple logo they could have hired one of their own art students to come up with, but that's just this university in a nutshell. Why not just waste money when the gubmint just keeps writing them blank checks? In any case, it may not be much, but it's something. And you know what? I kind of enjoy listening to the assholes REE about it. It is very much the same feeling I get when the leftists whine about not being able to do something, because in the end, they only succeed in making themselves look worse. I also appreciate the irony that those leftists are largely responsible for bringing about this change, too. Talk about a clown world. 🤡

I will say, The Ice Dragons sounds like a much cooler sports team name.

 

[Captain X]

I realize that.

Good.

I'm not sure why one would think that, because if we're comparing, people actively trying to destroy American culture and Western Civilization seems a bit more threatening than sports fans insulting, demeaning, and/or building threatening effigies of your racial ethnicity. Maybe when they start actually physically attacking Native Americans, I'd see better where you're coming from; but as it stands, this seems rather petty.

People already did that in the past. You should read about it sometime. Bringing this up I'm referencing things like the boarding schools and other such efforts to erase Native culture. When it comes to the sports stuff, it's more symbolic than anything. As I say, it's more along the lines of a slander and a continuation of the depictions used in older media that would cast us as the bad guys until the hippies came along and started in with the revisionism that took things to the opposite extreme. These days, it's white people, or more specifically white men who are getting this treatment in media. Is it petty to complain about this treatment?

In any event, my policy is that if someone wants to be a jerk, let them be a jerk; you don't have to associate with them. Feel free to call them out on it though.

Yeah, that's kind of what people have been doing all along with this sport mascot stuff.

I knew what I was saying the moment I said it; but I still felt it needed to be said.

And really all it's done is to highlight an ignorance on your part. Natives have had it pretty bad before, and we've fought back before, too. You should read about what happened between the Lumbee and the KKK. Good story.

I will say, The Ice Dragons sounds like a much cooler sports team name.

Yes, but a lot of people in this state have a complex when it comes to any reference to cold. As if everyone doesn't already know about the winters here. There actually was an attempt to change the name of North Dakota to just Dakota, because "North" makes people think of cold, apparently. People actually thought/think that, and that getting rid of that part of the name would increase tourism.

 

[Terthna]

People already did that in the past. You should read about it sometime. Bringing this up I'm referencing things like the boarding schools and other such efforts to erase Native culture. When it comes to the sports stuff, it's more symbolic than anything. As I say, it's more along the lines of a slander and a continuation of the depictions used in older media that would cast us as the bad guys until the hippies came along and started in with the revisionism that took things to the opposite extreme. These days, it's white people, or more specifically white men who are getting this treatment in media. Is it petty to complain about this treatment?

To complain about it? No; I'd be a hypocrite if I argued otherwise. But forcing them to stop against their will? I may not like what they have to say, but I would defend to the death their right to say it.

And really all it's done is to highlight an ignorance on your part. Natives have had it pretty bad before, and we've fought back before, too. You should read about what happened between the Lumbee and the KKK. Good story.

Honestly, yeah; that was pretty cool, reading up on it. Always nice to hear of those guys walking away with bloody noses after starting a fight. That said, I don't think anything you've presented is on that level. It's just a bunch of jerks being jerks, and not even in your general vicinity.

Yes, but a lot of people in this state have a complex when it comes to any reference to cold. As if everyone doesn't already know about the winters here. There actually was an attempt to change the name of North Dakota to just Dakota, because "North" makes people think of cold, apparently. People actually thought/think that, and that getting rid of that part of the name would increase tourism.

Wow; that's some impressive denial. Personally, I'd want to move to someplace like that because of the cold (I can't stand the heat, and I hate not being able to see snow around Christmas).

 

[Captain X]

To complain about it? No; I'd be a hypocrite if I argued otherwise. But forcing them to stop against their will? I may not like what they have to say, but I would defend to the death their right to say it.

Freedom of speech does not extend to slander. It is correct and proper to stop others from spreading lies about you. This is why lawsuits about this are a thing, not to mention the concept of "fighting words."

Honestly, yeah; that was pretty cool, reading up on it. Always nice to hear of those guys walking away with bloody noses after starting a fight. That said, I don't think anything you've presented is on that level. It's just a bunch of jerks being jerks, and not even in your general vicinity.

This is just an example. I really don't get your rationale. You've presented an argument that amounts to saying we should let people walk all over us, or they'll get really racist. I've just provided an example of how real racism is hardly something Natives have never experienced before, even in the fairly recent past. I've also shared an example of the rather underwhelming aftermath of another sports team being forced to change their name. Either way, your argument doesn't really work.

Wow; that's some impressive denial. Personally, I'd want to move to someplace like that because of the cold (I can't stand the heat, and I hate not being able to see snow around Christmas).

The Dakotas will give you all the cold you want in the winter, but it's also very hot and humid in the summer.

 

[Chaos Marine]

Hunter ‘paid Russian prostitute’ from Joe Biden’s account

Hunter Biden may have accidentally paid a Russian prostitute $US25,000 ($A33,000) from an account that was linked to dad Joe, according to text messages obtained from his laptop.

www.news.com.au

[Edit]

 

[Terthna]

Freedom of speech does not extend to slander. It is correct and proper to stop others from spreading lies about you. This is why lawsuits about this are a thing, not to mention the concept of "fighting words."

Okay; so why aren't you doing that, instead of demanding that a sports team stop using a Native American as their mascot? Seems to me your issue ought to be with those specific fans, and not the existence of the team's mascot itself.

This is just an example. I really don't get your rationale. You've presented an argument that amounts to saying we should let people walk all over us, or they'll get really racist. I've just provided an example of how real racism is hardly something Natives have never experienced before, even in the fairly recent past. I've also shared an example of the rather underwhelming aftermath of another sports team being forced to change their name. Either way, your argument doesn't really work.

An example of what? Something that happened over sixty years ago, that has nothing to do with sports team mascots? Regardless of the efficacy of my argument relating to not antagonizing racists, you haven't presented a compelling argument as to why forcing the sports team to change its name is anything more than symbolic in nature.

The Dakotas will give you all the cold you want in the winter, but it's also very hot and humid in the summer.

Never mind then.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Hunter ‘paid Russian prostitute’ from Joe Biden’s account

Hunter Biden may have accidentally paid a Russian prostitute $US25,000 ($A33,000) from an account that was linked to dad Joe, according to text messages obtained from his laptop.

www.news.com.au

[Edit]

So it was actually demorat-allied people who hired russian prostitutes? Incredible, the sheer power of projection at display here!

 

[Typhonis]

[/URL]

[Edit]

I thought gun control was supposed to be racist?

 

[Sobek]

That used to be the line when they cared a bit. But now that the push is to disarm everyone it's the 2nd that is racist.

 

[bintananth]

I thought gun control was supposed to be racist?

It's both classist and racist.

It's classist in the sense that those advocating for more restrictions on gun ownership want those restrictions to be so onerous that only the very wealthy will have the connections and resources needed to legally get one.

All but the most extreme of "guns for everyone" wingnuts will agree that certain people shouldn't have access to guns at all because they're not capable of handling one in a safe and responsible way and that some restrictions are needed. What makes that racist is how very vocal gun control advocates go about it with restrictions meant to look "neutral" but are actually meant to disarm "those people" whose mere existence they don't approve of.

 

[Chaos Marine]

 

[ATP]

They did not charge her with that YET.

 

[Bacle]

 

[Husky_Khan]

What happens when your fined $250 dollars for having cars illegally parked on your own property... in that the tires of YOUR car is touching the grass on YOUR lawn?

What if you called the city to resolve the issue and wanted them to send an Inspector to "confirm" compliance but the City never responded with an inspection and let the issue rest for a year and then you realize your suddenly stuck with fines totaling over $165,000 dollars?

How a Florida Woman Got a $100,000 Fine—For Parking on Her Own Property | Brad Polumbo

“It’s surreal that the town still refuses to admit that what it’s doing to me is abusive and unfair,” Sandy Martinez said. “I work hard for what I’ve got. I shouldn’t have to fight in court to stop the city from fining me into poverty.”

fee.org