Fallout Fallout General Thread - War, War Never Changes. Nor do game engines.

No need to rant about Fallout 3 that hasn't been said about it extensively but its obvious that a lot of the world building of Bethesda's Fallout 3 didn't make much sense. That was known and discussed then and it's known and discussed now and known and discussed in between.

A lot of the criticisms of Megaton can be applied to Fallout 3 in general and a lot of it is due to the fact that the Capitol Wasteland looks like the post-apocalypse occurred like twenty years ago, not two hundred. Megaton for example has a water processing plant, and brahmin (or rather a single brahmin) but it doesn't have any farms or brahmin pens and the closest I think it has to a food source is that respawning molerat pack on the far side of the Megaton Wall. 😋

I think the main assumption I can make is that Megaton's settlers for the most part are transient and survive by scavenging. Which makes sense in the setting. Everyone talks about scavenging. Three Dog and Moira etc even talks about it. Somehow scavenging for centuries old food is a legitimate and sustainable pursuit in the Capitol Wasteland. Who knows how or why? It just is. Plus as Lucas Simms and others say, its hard to get a home in Megaton and most of the people seem to be transient types who live in common houses and likely scavenge for a living which is just wild. But that's Fallout 3 for you.

Some of the other towns like Canterbury Commons, the Temple of the Union and Republic of Dave have brahmin pens as well. Does Arefu or Big Town or Tenpenny Tower whatever have any agriculture? Girdershade is literally two shacks. I assume that Big Town survives by scavenging (also Big Town-Little Lamplight is wonky as well but again, I don't care... its kinda dumb... really dumb but not quite game breaking for me despite the inherent nonsense of it all) like with how you have to rescue some of them from the Germantown Police Department.

I actually like the locations of Big Town, and Arefu, and Tenpenny Tower but again, it's very wonky if you look at it too much. I assume that scavenging and maybe hunting/gathering is the main trade people engage in and if you squint at it, there's a lively caravan trade as well so maybe it somehow works... somehow. It doesn't work by the way, but enough for SoD in my humble opinion.

Fallout 3 has inferior worldbuilding when it comes to logic and reason compared to other Fallout games. But some people, not me personally, really like the games post-apocalyptic gray and dark setting of being a proper wasteland even if it is two centuries after the fact. I guess adding farms or ranches or workshops for scavengers to make things is all just a bit too much for them to include. 🤷‍♀️

And you can go on for paragraphs and paragraphs about this but meh... you already get the point. I like Megaton. If there was ever a reboot of Megaton, I'd try and make it bigger. Maybe give them a distillery... or a workshop where they build things to trade. Maybe a molerat ranch. I dunno. Maybe they're worried that the trade with Grayditch is interrupted.

And you could just (as some mods have done) just add more farms and crops to the settlements. I like Arefu and the idea of a settlement on top of a highway bridge. I think it's a neat concept. They could've done more with it. Maybe make it more clear that Tenpenny Tower is somehow a community for wealthy Wastelanders. Like there is a stable currency in the Capitol Wasteland. You can have your fancy residential tower with a stable economy. It's not too far fetched if every town is connected by a caravan. And honestly, Tenpenny Tower actually makes more sense then the other post-apocalyptic wealthy community that comes to mind, Fiddlers Green from the Romero zombie film Land of the Dead where a bunch of rich people live in a luxurious tower surrounded by slums and just... be rich?

I could even like the idea of Big Town and Little Lamplight. The concept as is, feels pretty dumb to me and obviously it reduces choice due to Little Lamplight being what it is. But I could get behind the concept of a safe hidden community for rugrats who eventually have to migrate elsewhere. I mean there was a variation of that plot point in the backstory of Horizon: Zero Dawn. Imagine some weird hidden settlement where kids are raised by robots or something, then at age sixteen are punted into the waste because of automated processes or something. That's a neat concept.

The point is, Fallout 3 is generally... as games go and as game worlds go... I feel its pretty clearly above average. There's obvious flaws and obvious ways it could be improved.
 
Water tables, density, gravity and whatnot never really occurred to me so I guess I was like the vast majority of folks and didn't think it was lore breaking or ruining my suspension of disbelief. Certainly never occurred to me as being such in the over a decade and a half since its release or whatever.

Yeah. This. I can safely say the water table under Megaton had never even remotely entered my mind until now.
 
Yeah. This. I can safely say the water table under Megaton had never even remotely entered my mind until now.
I have to ask 'how?' though.
The center of the town and a major element of one of the most consequential quests is a bomb surrounded by a puddle of water. You can't exactly have a puddle of water unless 1: water is being dropped on there or 2: that's the water table and hence it's always full of water.
If megaton had not a single puddle in it, fair game. But the game reminds you every single time you enter "That is where the water is".
 

SyntheticMan made a video on the trailer.
Tl;Dw
Bethesda/Amazon doesn't know what Fallout is actually supposed to be, nor do modern Fallout fans, ergo the project is doomed to being an objective failure.
 
Explain.
Because while most modern FO fans arnt the fans of the OG, it seems to stay in line with what we expect from 3 4, 76 and NV
 
Explain.
Because while most modern FO fans arnt the fans of the OG, it seems to stay in line with what we expect from 3 4, 76 and NV
Then you aren't a Fallout fan, not a real one at least. ;V
FO1-2 are the cornerstones of the franchise, without them you wouldn't even HAVE 3/4/76.
 
Then you aren't a Fallout fan, not a real one at least. ;V
FO1-2 are the cornerstones of the franchise, without them you wouldn't even HAVE 3/4/76.
While true, you can be a fan of FO without liking the first 2.
Just like a SW fan cna be a fan if they like the prequels over the original.
 
While true, you can be a fan of FO without liking the first 2.
Just like a SW fan cna be a fan if they like the prequels over the original.
E-Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
I can't quite agree on that, even if the Prequels aren't terrible like FO4 and 76. (Fallout 3 is kinda okay though, if silly)
 
E-Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
I can't quite agree on that, even if the Prequels aren't terrible like FO4 and 76. (Fallout 3 is kinda okay though, if silly)
FO4 isn't terrible thiugh.
Parts of it are yes, but it adds a lot that makes up for it.
Loke world building and the like.
nV is also a good one but wasnt made by Bethwsda so yadda yadda yadda.
You gotta gatekeep eventually, or else you get FO76... X_X
It has gotten better.
 
Gatekeeping then would've reduced the Fallout franchise to being about as popular as Heroes of Might and Magic or Arcanum.
This is an acceptable compromise, I do not require popularity, only quality. :V
FO4 isn't terrible thiugh.
Parts of it are yes, but it adds a lot that makes up for it.
Loke world building and the like.
nV is also a good one but wasnt made by Bethwsda so yadda yadda yadda.

It has gotten better.
FO4 is objectively just a badly written game, with pretty bad combat mechanics. The only somewhat well done part is the quite interesting settlement building which ultimately doesn't matter as it provides the player with no real benefits. X_X

The franchise (like most) is just getting worse and worse.
 
Didn't you play the modern Fallout games before the originals?
By virtue of not being older than I am, yeah? But I would've played FO1-2 regardless, as those are games that appeal to what I like, good combat rules, character building, etc.

I also played Starcraft 2 before I played Starcraft 1, doesn't mean I don't think that Starcraft 1 is just the objectively better package. :V
 
By virtue of not being older than I am, yeah? But I would've played FO1-2 regardless, as those are games that appeal to what I like, good combat rules, character building, etc.

I also played Starcraft 2 before I played Starcraft 1, doesn't mean I don't think that Starcraft 1 is just the objectively better package. :V

Yeah that's not the point. The point is they'd be buried as deep in public awareness as a solid Dark Reign single player campaign.

Fallout 1 and 2 and even Tactics are widely more available now and known to more people thanks to the latter games and Fallout New Vegas is still rightly considered a great RPG as well.

Unlike with Star Wars or Marvels where the former has its EU in limited availability under Legends branding and constant remastered and Marvel Comics being buried in in back issues and the like, the latter Fallout games have spread the availability and awareness of the older Fallout games.

And unlike with movies and comics, you can still mod the shit out of the newer games if so motivated. So no gatekeeping to prevent the release of new Fallout games ever is just retarded. The fact that you feel its fine for you is immaterial for anyone beyond you.
 
I dunno if I agree with that, Fallout 1-2-Tactics were never super popular games but thank god they weren't, I'd have rather the franchise end with a stinker like BoS, than continue as a reanimated rotting (ghoulish) corpse.

The only thing Fallout 3 led to that was of quality was New Vegas, and of course Bethesda still seethes over it to this day, even though they shot NV in the kneecaps and asked it to do a 200 meter sprint.

 
Anyways I thought gatekeeping was about the fandoms being woke and shit. Fallout 76 was merely panned by almost everyone for just being a bad game, not a particularly woke one.
Gatekeeping in 2000 over vague concerns of quality control five games and almost two decades later is just aberrant as well as generally pointless.
 
Gatekeeping can be about anything really, it just got more popular nowadays because people forgot what it's purpose was about, quality control as you say.

Every single person you let into 'your space' who truly does not hold the beliefs of the group, dilutes it more and more until the group is no longer about what it was originally about.

If you showed a person in the early 2000's a picture of Fallout 4, they wouldn't be able to identify it as a Fallout game unless something incredibly obvious was in frame like a vault door or vault boy.

The real worry is less that it has changed, but rather that we know it'll never change back to it's original and unique form.
If Fallout 4 was a new franchise called "Apocalypse Boston", I wouldn't be concerned.
 
Gatekeeping can be about anything really, it just got more popular nowadays because people forgot what it's purpose was about, quality control as you say.

Every single person you let into 'your space' who truly does not hold the beliefs of the group, dilutes it more and more until the group is no longer about what it was originally about.

If you showed a person in the early 2000's a picture of Fallout 4, they wouldn't be able to identify it as a Fallout game unless something incredibly obvious was in frame like a vault door or vault boy.

The real worry is less that it has changed, but rather that we know it'll never change back to it's original and unique form.
If Fallout 4 was a new franchise called "Apocalypse Boston", I wouldn't be concerned.
FO3, 4, NV and 76 all add respective elements.
For instance you can ask @Battlegrinder his favorite FO, and it may differ from others.
I like 4 because of the settlement building aspect and the way power armor is done.
The older ones I do like ideas of it, and the more Turn based stuff is nice, but the FPS aspect makes up for it.
Add in the fact you have a massive modding community that can make the old games into FPS.
We have decent mod such as The Frontier for NV, you have New California for NV.
4 has America Rising 2, Sim Settlements 2, FO4 NV, FO4 CW, hell, there is even talk if making 1 and 2 into 4 or NV.
 

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