Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)

[Hlaalu Agent]

again define "works."

Four separate ethno-cultural groups share a nation and consider themselves to be part of a greater whole? I think a relationship between different groups sharing a feeling of national unity based on shared trust, civic values and a common history is working just fine.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Actually I'd argue that feudalism was the most egalitarian system mankind's ever had. Sure, Kings had it good but the difference between peasant and king wasn't nearly as wide as the modern gap between poor and superrich, nor the slave vs. emperor situation that preceded it.

Serfdom in which serfs were tied to the land might seem harsh today but it was lightyears better than what the poor had in Rome, which was slavery, and lightyears better than the lethally dangerous sweatshops (and yes, more slavery) that followed in the "Age of Enlightenment." The serfs also generally worked less than we do today, amazingly enough. They worked around a 5.5 day workweek and had 30-33 days off for special feasts each year. That's a heck of a lot of time off considering the reputation the period has.

Wars under feudalism tend to be tiny affairs. Rome mustered 80,000 soldiers to attack similar numbers at Carthage. 10,000 would be a vast army in the middle ages, with many armies being in the hundreds. The battle of Agincourt was one of the largest in the middle ages and it pitted 36,000 Frenchmen against 9,000 Englishmen.

During the middle ages things things like the Peace of God and Truce of God forbade civilian deaths and while there were breaches of this, on the whole it was kept. Comparatively, when Rome went to war with Carthage, Rome went to war against all Carthaginians, man woman and child (and in some cases even pets) were to either die or be enslaved, there was no "civilian" in their minds. And then after Feudalism we got the delights of World Wars and industrialized warfare.

Ultimately feudalism has one all-defining virtue. Feudalism in general is the exact opposite of tyranny, the monarch's power is greatly reduced compared to other governmental systems with said power being split between innumerable aristocrats, nobles, and minor nobility right down to the equivalent of the town mayor. the system of obligations prevented the King from doing too much and sharply limited his influence, with the result that the power flowed downhill compared to other systems. This distribution of power hoses any attempt at really wresting control from the local people and makes for an extremely level playing field compared to anything else mankind has tried.

So what's to keep the aristocrats and kings from joining forces and smashing everyone else into the ground what is the gun that's kept to everyone's head that makes them afraid to get out of bed in the morning? What keeps them accountable?

 

[Abhishekm]

So what's to keep the aristocrats and kings from joining forces and smashing everyone else into the ground what is the gun that's kept to everyone's head that makes them afraid to get out of bed in the morning? What keeps them accountable?

The US answer? The guns in everybody else's hands. But you know how that song and dance is going.

Edit: Anyway back to current day. Any news on the Georgia recount before I sign off for the day?

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

So what's to keep the aristocrats and kings from joining forces and smashing everyone else into the ground what is the gun that's kept to everyone's head that makes them afraid to get out of bed in the morning? What keeps them accountable?

Because there are other interests in society that wouldn't be pleased such as the townsmen, free holders, the church and so on. They'd jealously guard their powers. And the aristocracy is not monolithic, there are tiers in them. I doubt the gentry would have the same interests as the magnates. And the monarchy and their holders on tended to compete with the aristocracy and their supporters for power. Such an alliance wouldn't and couldn't last, and would be contested strongly.

 

[Bear Ribs]

So what's to keep the aristocrats and kings from joining forces and smashing everyone else into the ground what is the gun that's kept to everyone's head that makes them afraid to get out of bed in the morning? What keeps them accountable?

I honestly don't understand the question. The middle ages were nearly a thousand years long, stretching from the 5th to 15th centuries and Feudalism managed to keep things running that whole time, so clearly it had something going for it to keep things stable as long as it did. What keeps anybody accountable in any system that you would be satisfied with as an answer?

Edit: But as an easier answer, one of the great stabilizing influences in the Feudal system was that lords actually had to live on the land they ruled, as literally that's what the system was based on, land in exchange for service. As a reuslt the landed gentry always had a strong incentive to run the local system well since their entire livelihood came from their peasantry doing well, there was no spending other people's money in that system.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Because there are other interests in society that wouldn't be pleased such as the townsmen, free holders, the church and so on. They'd jealously guard their powers. And the aristocracy is not monolithic, there are tiers in them. I doubt the gentry would have the same interests as the magnates. And the monarchy and their holders on tended to compete with the aristocracy and their supporters for power. Such an alliance wouldn't and couldn't last, and would be contested strongly.

Isn't it all the shit kings had trouble with trying to centralise or seditious nobleman considering splinter faiths?

 

[Arch Dornan]

Oh shit we derailed didn't we?

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I honestly don't understand the question. The middle ages were nearly a thousand years long, stretching from the 5th to 15th centuries and Feudalism managed to keep things running that whole time, so clearly it had something going for it to keep things stable as long as it did. What keeps anybody accountable in any system that you would be satisfied with as an answer?

frankly for me mutually assured destruction. But if I can't have that I'd rather have social mobility above anything else. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees as they say.

 

[Abhishekm]

Ok, gonna sum this argument and conclusion real fast so we can go back to election topics. Most Kings are shit, most Aristocracy is shit, most Popes or pope equivalents are shit, most politicians are shit, most people are atleast a little bit shit to other people but that last one is mostly from (rightly) not giving a shit about people they don't have a connection to when it comes down to it.

So back on topic whats happened today? Any news worth talking about, any speculation?

 

[Arch Dornan]

Ok, gonna sum this argument and conclusion real fast so we can go back to election topics. Most Kings are shit, most Aristocracy is shit, most Popes or pope equivalents are shit, most politicians are shit, most people are atleast a little bit shit to other people but that last one is mostly from (rightly) not giving a shit about people they don't have a connection to when it comes down to it.

So back on topic whats happened today? Amy news worth talking about, any speculation?

There's demands for an investigation that I'm sure heels will be dragged.

 

[Cherico]

There's demands for an investigation that I'm sure heels will be dragged.

we keep finding more and more evidence of election fraud on a truly massive scale.

 

[Arch Dornan]

we keep finding more and more evidence of election fraud on a truly massive scale.

On the reaction of some GOP members I see Dan Crenshaw is likely to be the next McCain.

 

[Terthna]

On the reaction of some GOP members I see Dan Crenshaw is likely to be the next McCain.

Did you mean that as an insult? Because it sounds like you're insulting the man.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Did you mean that as an insult? Because it sounds like you're insulting the man.

No a prediction. Twitter is doing comparisons.

There are people that don't like him and after his conduct I'm starting to suspect his opportunism.

 

[Abhishekm]

So gonna ask again. What happened in Arizona? Haven't checked up on that in weeks.

 

[Duke Nukem]

 

[Zachowon]

The GOP has grown some balls

 

[GoldRanger]

It's Thursday (well, very early Thursday in America), not seeing any Krakens thus far. If today and tomorrow nothing happens, that would put Trump and Giuliani's credibility at risk.

 

[Cherico]

It's Thursday (well, very early Thursday in America), not seeing any Krakens thus far. If today and tomorrow nothing happens, that would put Trump and Giuliani's credibility at risk.

I'm giving them till this saterday, after that I'm going to assume they dont have anything special and just have the amount of voter fraud that has already been caught by the public which is more then enough to more or less push things to the supreme court.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.gand.283580/gov.uscourts.gand.283580.7.1_2.pdf

Nothing like having more votes tabulated in a given period of time than the tabulation machines are physically able to process in said period of time.

MI literally counted more ballots in its 4 AM ballot dump than it was physically possible for the machines to process in the time period available. But nope, no fraud and nothing to see here; this election was entirely above board and free of suspicion.