Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)

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Reap the Whirlwind said:
If Republicans can get a better messenger, say a Ron Desantis or a Tim Scott, then they will clean up in 2024.
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That's under the assumption that the claims of fraud really are just a desperate lie, rather than a correct interpretation of the numerous incredibly suspicious events that went on on election day. Because if the allegations are, in fact, correct, the Republican position and how palatable it is to the public is going to be irrelevant in 2024, since the Democrats are going to cheat again, and win again.

The majority of republican voters right now (according to polls provided by @Emperor Tippy) are right now operating under the assumption that the allegations are not merely hot air.
 
GoldRanger said:
That's under the assumption that the claims of fraud really are just a desperate lie, rather than a correct interpretation of the numerous incredibly suspicious events that went on on election day. Because if the allegations are, in fact, correct, the Republican position and how palatable it is to the public is going to be irrelevant in 2024, since the Democrats are going to cheat again, and win again.

The majority of republican voters right now (according to polls provided by @Emperor Tippy) are right now operating under the assumption that the allegations are not merely hot air.
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Just like the Russians helped Trump win in 2016?

I am being sarcastic. Russians didn’t hand Trump the White House, just like Fraud didn’t give Biden the Presidency. There was some fraud, but not enough to over come the tens of thousands of votes in four different states.
 
Reap the Whirlwind said:
Just like the Russians helped Trump win in 2016?
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One historical allegation years ago was incorrect. Therefore no election results can be called into question, and no fraud allegation can ever be investigated, for all eternity.

Does the above logic chain makes sense to you?

I am being sarcastic. Russians didn’t hand Trump the White House, just like Fraud didn’t give Biden the Presidency.
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How do you know that, without an investigation into the issue?

There was some fraud, but not enough to over come the tens of thousands of votes in four different states.
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There was some fraud that you know about, yes. There could easily be much more that you don't directly know about. the publicly known evidence is not conclusive, but does seem to hint that there were much more than the confirmed "glitches".
 
Reap the Whirlwind said:
I know right!

The conservatives’ message works. Keep fracking ( and before you say it UA, Biden totally said he wanted to end the gas industry), pro-gun, pro-jobs, pro-life, anti-China, anti-socialist, anti-teachers unions, anti-lockdown, end to occupation in Afghanistan, that works! And it also works with a huge and growing number of minorities, especially Latinos.

If Republicans can get a better messenger, say a Ron Desantis or a Tim Scott, then they will clean up in 2024. Trump has shown a way forward for American conservatism, as long as the Republicans don’t let him become a millstone around their necks.
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You and @Unhappy Anchovy are the same. Supporting so called conservatives who are controlled opposition to the left aka do nothings and when they do something its to suck off to corpos.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Trump is true conservative. He ain't. I just find this blind GOP worship repulsive.
 
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To be fair, the GOP have done some things now that I remind myself again like the guns thing. But I personally find this is just a safety measure to lul non-leftists into thinking, we can still beat up you liberals with our guns. And the republican says this while his kids go to school coming out as SJWs and hating him meaning his beliefs die with him. But hey, at least he still got his guns.
 
I don't even like the GOP.

Also I am not a fan of Trump's personality.

But the democrats are worse, and what Trump was running on, and has accomplished, despite his personality, is stuff I like. Unemployment shrinking, wages raising(including low end wages,) without need for minimum wage hikes, better trade deals, peace in the middle east, secure borders, healthy stock market, a bulwark against the woke, pro worker, tax cutting, pro people policy. Good, good, good.

If Trump is gone, I hope the future GOP conservatives realize that they DO have a winning message. They need to use it.

The GOP as the pro blue collar, pro industrial, pro working class party, is a party who will continue to trounce Woke SJW authoritarian welfare state communistic leftists.

That's why I liked Pence a lot at the debate. He was able to be Trump platform without Trump personality.
 
Reap the Whirlwind said:
Bwahahaha! UA, a Republican? Oh my word. I don’t think you could have called him anything that would personally insult him more. Thanks, I needed that laugh.
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Where oh where did I ever say republican?

UA is in Australia last I checked.

I said so called conservatives.

Right here:

Supporting so called conservatives who are controlled opposition

For you that would be republican. For UA, if he bothers to support a conservative party, it would be whatever the equivalent exists in Australia.

Please try again with your gotchas
 
Unhappy Anchovy said:
Hm? No, a bunch of those were real? Here's right-libertarian source Reason on the bleach claim. He did not technically say that people should consume bleach, but he did speculate about injecting it, which is, um, what the story was.
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The way the media spun the story was that he recommended people to inject / ingest bleach. Even your own source never mentions him mentioning bleach at all, just disinfectant.

If you watched the press conference at the time (I've seen it live), it is clear what he was saying was they were exploring various other experimental procedures (like the UV light one, which is a real thing), and even then whatever comes off of those people need to consult with medical professionals first before any therapy.

So, I'll be generous and give you a quarter of this one I suppose.


Unhappy Anchovy said:
The 'fine people' quote? There's a transcript of that conversation here (by a pro-Trump source, incidentally), and you can see what he said there. The reporter mentioned neo-Nazis, and Trump replied, "you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides". That sounds like Trump was saying that there were at least some "very fine people" in the neo-Nazi group or on the neo-Nazi side, which is the thing that people were angry about. Now a few lines down Trump clarifies that "the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists... should be condemned totally" but that he was referring to "many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists". That in itself is a really weird claim, because as far as I can tell there weren't (that is, the Charlottesville rally didn't contain moderate conservatives or anything; it was explicitly racist, and actually waved Nazi flags), but at any rate, Trump's position seems to be that the rally contained lots of non-racist, reasonable people who were just unhappy about the removal of Confederate statues, plus a small minority of neo-Nazis and racists. So I guess I can give you half of this one? Trump might not have precisely said that neo-Nazis were fine people, but only by virtue of making a false claim about the protest. But sure, the reporting here was misleading? [shrug]
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lol

You already gave half of the answer yourself "Trump's position seems to be that the rally contained lots of non-racist, reasonable people who were just unhappy about the removal of Confederate statues, plus a small minority of neo-Nazis and racists", but then you went ahead and ruined it by stating that this is a false claim.

If you actually watched the entire press conference instead of relying on what people told you about, you'd see how his "fine people on both sides" referred to the people of both sides of the debate / protest on the removal of that confederate statue.

And then you had the press being their usual lying pieces of shit and running with the line that Trump called nazis "very fine people" for fucking years, always conveniently leaving out from their coverage the next part of what he said - that he's not talking about the neo-nazis, white nationalists, and condemns them totally.
 
Unhappy Anchovy said:
The 'fine people' quote? There's a transcript of that conversation here (by a pro-Trump source, incidentally), and you can see what he said there. The reporter mentioned neo-Nazis, and Trump replied, "you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides". That sounds like Trump was saying that there were at least some "very fine people" in the neo-Nazi group or on the neo-Nazi side, which is the thing that people were angry about.
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Later in the very same transcript:

Reporter: “Sir, I just didn’t understand what you were saying. You were saying the press has treated white nationalists unfairly? I just don’t understand what you were saying.”

Trump: “No, no. There were people in that rally — and I looked the night before — if you look, there were people protesting very quietly the taking down of the statue of Robert E. Lee. I’m sure in that group there were some bad ones. The following day it looked like they had some rough, bad people — neo-Nazis, white nationalists, whatever you want to call them.
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Trump very, very obviously didn't mean that Nazis were "fine people", he meant that the overall Republican/right-wing group had very fine people in it. The only way to present any other interpretation is by disingenuously omitting context and quoting very selective, cherry-picked snippets of what he said.
 
Unhappy Anchovy said:
You know, the character who said that was intentionally deceiving the man she said it to, and then went on provide aid and comfort to his enemies, undermine his rule over a planet, and defect to his foes.
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It’s an intentional inversion of what she said to someone else earlier. She was telling that man not to put his faith in her words. I am saying that what I say is true and trustworthy.

Yes I’ve read the book.
 
Duke Nukem said:
I Don't get why lefties keep bringing up that out of context "fine people" thing. it's been debunked for years.
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Because the media says its not been debunked likely or cause as per my previous posts, to oppose the left automatically means you're a racist, sexist, blah blah and you can never prove that you are not outside of complete submission to the left and even then if you are male and white, you are still racist.
 
LifeisTiresome said:
Because the media says its not been debunked likely or cause as per my previous posts, to oppose the left automatically means you're a racist, sexist, blah blah and you can never prove that you are not outside of complete submission to the left and even then if you are male and white, you are still racist.
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Even if you're not white or male, and you submit fully, it doesn't always work. You need to keep up with the lingo, be very pushy with their dogma (because not talking about their issues is just a form of passive oppression), and plenty of luck that whatever screaming ideologue that has you in his sights happens to consider your words correct enough this week (For example: Whites not dating black women are racists, white dating black women are fetishizing them. The chance that the screaming ideologue agrees with whatever you'd comment on the issue is around 50%).
 
A lot of this comes down to having faith in the big institutions that control information in the USA. If you have blind faith in what they say, then sure, Trump obviously lost and there was no election fraud. If you don't have such blind faith, then you can't really come to that conclusion. Now these people that we are supposed to have faith in have lied to us again and again and again over the years. They told us that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They told us that Russia fixed the 2016 election, and strangely enough we never saw fact checking about those Russian claims on any tweets. They told us that Nick Sandman was a racist harassing in innocent Native American man. We've caught them in countless lies, how many other lies have they told us that we haven't been able to catch or at least not able to verify? The mainstream media and the majority of DC institutions have shown that faith in their proclamations isn't justified.

Along the same lines, I don't necessarily trust what Donald Trump says just because he says it. I don't trust or have faith in either side, which is why I would like more thorough investigations and most importantly - transparency. When people want to censor calls for investigations, especially when they are known liars, it makes me suspicious. When people want to ruin the careers or otherwise intimidate people trying to investigate, it makes me even more concerned.


The issue of Charlottesville always triggers me. Trump's response was flawed, it was way too milquetoast, wishy-washy, both-sides. He should have more vociferously condemned Antifa and associated left wing thugs who attacked and shut down a peaceful and legal protest of right wingers (whose diverse assortment of people did include some radicals, which is irrelevant) who were exercising their rights of free speech and assembly. Drawing any false equivalency between a group holding a legal political rally and the terrorists (and their corrupt abettors in police and government) who used violence to shut down that rally is obscene. Trump should, in fact, have used his power as president to launch investigations into Antifa and also looked at prosecuting local officials who exploited their authority to deny civil rights to their political opponents. If Trump had done that, he might have been able to reduce some of the mayhem that plagued us over the last year or so from left wing riots and authorities who fascilitated them.
 
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