Media outlets have always called elections prior to the electors meeting. They did in 2016, they did in 2012, and they did in 1912. There is absolutely nothing nefarious about media outlets trying to project the winner of the election as early as is reasonably possible.
And we have always done many things wrongly, almost no one plays Monopoly right for instance. And in all those years they never had a right to do so, they were always taking liberty. And it is plenty nefarious if they are refusing to do their supposed job evenly and fairly. I mean how long does it take to call Alaska? Why did they call Virginia for Biden even though Trump was obviously ahead there?
So let me put it this way: it is at least hypothetically possible that the reason why pretty much all global media have called the election for Biden is the same reason why they called it for Trump last time, and Obama before that, and so on. Perhaps they call it for Biden because Biden has genuinely won the election.
Yes, that is always a possibility. But that is rather implausible, since Trump has already gotten the highest vote of any sitting president, and somehow Joe Biden of all people massively out preforms both Hillary and Obama. How plausible is it that Joe Biden, who is unlikable, uncharisma, scandal ridden, has a past of racist remarks, and is obviously corrupt would do that much better. So how likely is it that he genuine won, if he did so much better than he logically should have? The man talking to empty parking lots could some how pull in over 75 million votes?
Sure, last minute shenanigans with electors are technically possible. Lots of people on the left were eager for some sort of hail Mary strategy with the electors to stop Trump getting in last time. Now we get to watch the bizarro re-run, with people on the right enthusiastic for a crazy stunt with the electors to try to tilt the election. For what it's worth, random_boy232 is
entirely correct that the state legislatures appointing electors contrary to the will of the people of that state would be
disastrous for the United States and likely to end in violence. That's not to encourage violence, but merely to point out what an incredibly bad idea it is. Undeniably conservative sources like
the National Review have said the same.
Following the constitutional processes is not bizarro, and they are not shenanigans. The fact that you think so reflects poorly on you. And really you think Georgia somehow voting for Biden is the will of the people? By such razor thing margins, in a contested election, in a clearly red state, that is full of Trump supporters. What is more likely a Republican state wants a Republican President, or they want an incredibly corrupt, unlikable, and uncharismatic democratic president. That sounds pretty unplausible to me, so I will reiterate it will be violence, because they dared to enforce the
will of the people. And thus political terrorism.
And now you are agreeing with someone calling for violence when he doesn't get his way. Good to know.
You are two people on a weird right-wing internet forum. I am going to go out on a limb here and speculate that your views are not representative of the general populace in Canada or in Israel.
This forum is not right wing, nor is it meant to be. We have people from all over the political spectrum, like
@Bacle who is essentially a person who the left left behind. And is an excellent
Unfortunately I don't have any polling data on how many Canadians believe there was electoral fraud. There is data showing what most Canadians think of Trump: unsurprisingly, they dislike him by a pretty overwhelming margin.
Macleans suggests that 72% of Canadians would vote for Biden, 14% for Trump, and 14% felt undecided.
Ipsos claims that 69% of Canadians think a Biden presidency would be good for Canada, and only 22% think a Trump presidency would be good for Canada. Per the YouGov poll before, 81% of American Trump voters think there was fraud. If that same ratio holds, well, let's estimate 20-25% of Canadian voters would be Trump voters, and then 80% of that is around 16-20%. Maybe all these polls significantly understate support for Trump, due to the same factors with the biased polls in the US, so what the hell, let's add 10% on to the top just for the heck of it. That still gets you... what, somewhere between a quarter and a third of Canadians potentially believing there was voter fraud.
I would say they do, I have actually seen MACA hats, and heard plenty of people being fellow travellers. And I would wager they polled the big cities and not the places where Canada's Trump supporters would most likely live. Such as smaller cities, or rural communities. Because face it, those communities are almost never polled and big cities are taken to be representative of the whole. And of course, they'd think a Biden presidency would be good for Canada, Biden is more pliable to our interests! And I will admit, I do have my own issues with Trump for the continuance of American economic aggression at my country, and many Canadians are going to be even angrier than me who can take it in proportion.
For Israel it looks like it's
the other way around, with perhaps 63% of Israelis preferring Trump, and only 18% preferring Biden. (Interestingly this would make Israelis considerably more pro-Trump than Americans.) If we apply the same 81% figure, that gets us maybe half of Israeli voters amenable to claims of fraud.
It is good you actually admitted some contrary evidence, and I'd say Israelis like Trump for the same reason many Canadians dislike him, political interest.
You might say all these figures are nonsense and I shouldn't trust polls at all. I acknowledge that polls are imperfect. However, I think it is definitely better to use an imperfect map than no map at all. Sure, these numbers might be off, but they're not completely nonsense, and I think it's better to try a fallible estimate like this than to just make it up or guess out of thin air. Taking a moment to try to think through the numbers is a really good habit to try to get into.
They probably are nonsense, and I'd say it is actually worse. Because it gives you the illusion of knowing, you think you know, but you know not. And as you see, I have been thinking through the numbers. Biden's win is unrealistically high. Insanely so.
See above. I think the methodology here is important.
And what is the methodology has been proven to be incredibly unreliable?
Polls are fallible, but they're not totally random either. There is real data there, and I think it's a good idea to try to use that data to make estimates. At the very least, I think it's better than the alternative.
After all, what's the alternative? If you're not going to use data, then... what have you got left? Gut feeling? Doesn't that make you the psephological or sociological version of
this joke? Again, I think a flawed map is better than no map. If I have to navigate a course on a starless night, I'd rather have a compass that's frequently 10 degrees off than I would have nothing at all.
Actually, I think that is more like you. You ignore all the information, because it doesn't fit your preconceived notions. And a flawed map can get you killed, it gives you false confidence. So I'd rather have no map, then I am forced to think on my feet and use all my available knowledge to survive. Every trick and every rule of thumb, rather than relying on information that could get me killed. To me you are saying you'd rather rely on obviously flawed information that is told to you, than thinking for yourself.
As a Christian, I am going to ask you only this once to cease the Christ comparisons.
I am not comparing him to Christ. I am using Jesus as an example, and it looks like I am effective with it, because you are playing the Christian card and lying about what I am doing. Also what about Socrates? In short, I am not comparing him to Jesus, so I will not cease and I resent your continued misrepresentations. I was citing Christ, because he was a clear example, of course Trump is little like him, but if men are in the same situation, it is the same situation.
I think you're assuming a united 'them'. Trump's lawsuits have gone into court, and have generally been laughed out. A few harassing, intimidating idiots are entirely irrelevant to the merits of the suits.
Which ones have been laughed out? He just won in Pennsylvania big time. I am going to need a citation for that, because I am seeing Trump winning plenty.
I believe that Donald Trump lost the election, yes, and that Joe Biden will be the legitimately elected next president of the United States. That puts me in the same company as everyone from Xi Jinping to Jacinda Ardern. I am not worried about whose company you think I keep.
Then that is entirely upon you, and you can keep whatever company you like. If do you indeed want to be in the same bunch as Winxi, it is your own perogative. But that will still not stop me from casting judgement as is my right.
But this is the point! It's the point I made in that first post. The only way for the fraud allegations to make sense is if there's a massive conspiracy!
Nope. And could you knock it off, we have already explained this plenty of times.
If there was a successful Democratic attempt to rig the election, it would have to be this massive operation. It would have to be on this immense scale: working simultaneously in multiple states, influencing or deceiving people from countless different parties at all levels of government, both domestically and internationally, and so on. There's no way something like that could happen without coordination. As such I think it's entirely reasonable to point out that there is no evidence of such a large operation.
It doesn't need to be a massive operation, just many small operations and a larger one at the top. You don't need any large scale organizational efforts these days to organize things. Just look at ISIS, Antifa, and the Hong Kong protests.
