Dothraki vs Army of Anubis

[Aldarion]

Dothraki from Martin's world face the Army of Anubis from the Mummy. There are two instances of this battle:

1) book Dothraki

2) movie Dothraki

Assume that the forces are equal (10 000 each) and on the level ground. Neither force has advanced knowledge of the other group's capabilities (this assumption is to be changed if battle turns out to be a stomp otherwise). Victory is by neutralizing the opponent - either complete annihilation or forced retreat.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The main trick would be that the Army of Anubis needs to be decapitated which I think would automatically give the Army of Anubis a big advantage.

BUTT...

Somehow the Medjai were able to defeat two thousand (IIRC) of the Anubis warriors and it looked like they were beheading them. And while the Army of Anubis seemed pretty strong it wasn't some sort of superhumanly large strength advantage. The Medjai were able to parry their attacks and even tackle them while the Anubis Warriors were able to knock Medjai off of their horses YEET style and able to chuck screaming maidens off of tall buildings with little effort. So definitely above average strength. They didn't seem armored though and honestly... didn't seem particularly skilled, even going with a holistic approach. The thing that is really missing is how many Medjai were there in that first battle? Was it just two thousand Medjai versus two thousand Anubis Warriors initially?

The Medjai are meant to be pretty badass warriors and they were able to handle two thousand of the Anubites. Dothraki are supposed to be pretty badass warriors too so we could assume they have close to equivalent skill of the Medjai.

The Medjai however know about the Army of Anubis and that you have to behead them. The Dothraki would have to find out the hard way. I don't think it'd be a stomp... since actually I think you could still delimb and disarm the Anubis Warriors (detached bits turn to sand, no idea on how quickly they regenerate) but if they figure it out I actually think they could take on the Anubis Warriors since they're likely just as skilled with blades as the Medjai, if not moreso. But since they don't have that inside knowledge, I say the Army of Anubis wins.

 

[Aldarion]

The Medjai are meant to be pretty badass warriors and they were able to handle two thousand of the Anubites. Dothraki are supposed to be pretty badass warriors too so we could assume they have close to equivalent skill of the Medjai.

Key word here is: supposed to be. But their description simply doesn't fit what they would need to do to actually be a badass army:

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They are an army of horse archers... lightly armored horse archers, with no heavy cavalry and no support elements. So yeah.

I figured having two fail armies going at each other would provide something other than a curbstomp. Because, frankly, badass or not, Medjai are still essentially a light cavalry force with not particularly good organization, and Army of Anubis is essentially a disorganized horde.

 

[ATP]

Key word here is: supposed to be. But their description simply doesn't fit what they would need to do to actually be a badass army:

Tactical Overview: Dothraki

Viserys promises that 10 000 Dothraki screamers are enough to “sweep the Seven Kingdoms”. But Free Cities do not really fear Dothraki; they are rather confident in their walls. Dothraki…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

Horse Archers Are Overrated

Horse archers often have a memetic status in military history and military fantasy alike. Mongols are said to have conquered most of Eurasia simply because they were awesome horse archers, and Doth…

warfantasy.wordpress.com

They are an army of horse archers... lightly armored horse archers, with no heavy cavalry and no support elements. So yeah.

I figured having two fail armies going at each other would provide something other than a curbstomp. Because, frankly, badass or not, Medjai are still essentially a light cavalry force with not particularly good organization, and Army of Anubis is essentially a disorganized horde.

Even worst - they had archers,but their tactic still demand to charge and win in glorious melee.
Remember,how eunuch army once defeated them? they just hold their own till enough Dothraki died charging them,when they should just schoot them from afar.

So,Dothraki would gloriously charge and gloroiusly die here.Anubis win.

Becouse light calvary which decided that they must win thanks to charges is pretty stupid idea.
Possible to survive only to GRRM plot schield.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I think the Army of Anubis is being a bit undersold here. While the Medjai were built up to be a badass order of warrior-rangers wandering the desert and fighting undead, they were nowhere near able to handle the Army of Anubis.

We see them here at the start of the fight, I've moved it to 1:53 where you can get a good look at the sheer size of their army. It's a formation that looks to be at least a thousand yards wide and hundreds of ranks deep, all mounted cavalry.


By 2:50 they've handled the first wave of Anubis Warriors, so the initial fight was about a minute long. At 3:30 they've regrouped to make their last stand. They've been reduced to a formation three men deep, Eyeballing it I'd say maybe three or four hundred yards wide. I see two of them still on their horses, there could be a few others in there somewhere so perhaps half a dozen horsemen still mounted at most. That's some horrific losses and it was just against the Anubis vanguard. We're looking at something like 95% casualties here in one minute of combat against those guys.

So I don't think it's entirely fair to say they handled the Army of Anubis, these were warriors specifically trained in how to fight undead who knew exactly where an Anubis Warrior's weak point was and they still only managed to barely survive at even odds. Lacking foreknowledge of what it takes to kill an Anubis Warrior, I think the Dothraki will lose, and hard.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I don't have a citation for it but IIRC the novelization of the book stated the Medjai might've numbered fifty thousand or something, but I could be misremembering what someone told me. Plus seeing what is on film, it certainly didn't look like the Army of Anubis was twenty or so times better than the Medjai. It seemed pretty even to be honest.

Also the final fight wasn't a minute IIRC. The YouTube clip just edited the Anubis fighting bits together to add up to a minute or so of action. The actual engagement was likely much longer. I haven't seen the movie in a while but this was occurring concurrently with the heroes going through lava trap puzzles and navigating the jungle pyramid and finding and fighting Imhotep and the Scorpion King etc... so... it was actually a while AFAIK.

I'd agree the Medjai were almost wiped as a force though. There are some curious things, like the utter lack of bodies (maybe they were covered in sand) but I'd agree that they were very depleted by the fight since I doubt the horses just disappeared like the Anubis Warriors did.

The real telling thing is that the actual Army of Anubis' main portion, I forgot how big it was, but I liked the concept of it moving forward like a Sandstorm. The Medjai would've likely been immediately swamped and overrun by that second wave like it was a literal sand tsunami washing over them.

Key word here is: supposed to be. But their description simply doesn't fit what they would need to do to actually be a badass army:

Hence I said badass warriors. Not a badass Army.

 

[Agent23]

I think the Army of Anubis is being a bit undersold here. While the Medjai were built up to be a badass order of warrior-rangers wandering the desert and fighting undead, they were nowhere near able to handle the Army of Anubis.

We see them here at the start of the fight, I've moved it to 1:53 where you can get a good look at the sheer size of their army. It's a formation that looks to be at least a thousand yards wide and hundreds of ranks deep, all mounted cavalry.


By 2:50 they've handled the first wave of Anubis Warriors, so the initial fight was about a minute long. At 3:30 they've regrouped to make their last stand. They've been reduced to a formation three men deep, Eyeballing it I'd say maybe three or four hundred yards wide. I see two of them still on their horses, there could be a few others in there somewhere so perhaps half a dozen horsemen still mounted at most. That's some horrific losses and it was just against the Anubis vanguard. We're looking at something like 95% casualties here in one minute of combat against those guys.

So I don't think it's entirely fair to say they handled the Army of Anubis, these were warriors specifically trained in how to fight undead who knew exactly where an Anubis Warrior's weak point was and they still only managed to barely survive at even odds. Lacking foreknowledge of what it takes to kill an Anubis Warrior, I think the Dothraki will lose, and hard.

And the Bedouin army also had GUNS, IIRC, and Arab cavalry is nothing to sneeze at.

The Dothraki are toast.

 

[Husky_Khan]

And the Bedouin army also had GUNS, IIRC, and Arab cavalry is nothing to sneeze at.

The Dothraki are toast.

Uhhh....

 

[Bear Ribs]

I don't have a citation for it but IIRC the novelization of the book stated the Medjai might've numbered fifty thousand or something, but I could be misremembering what someone told me. Plus seeing what is on film, it certainly didn't look like the Army of Anubis was twenty or so times better than the Medjai. It seemed pretty even to be honest.

Also the final fight wasn't a minute IIRC. The YouTube clip just edited the Anubis fighting bits together to add up to a minute or so of action. The actual engagement was likely much longer. I haven't seen the movie in a while but this was occurring concurrently with the heroes going through lava trap puzzles and navigating the jungle pyramid and finding and fighting Imhotep and the Scorpion King etc... so... it was actually a while AFAIK.

I'd agree the Medjai were almost wiped as a force though. There are some curious things, like the utter lack of bodies (maybe they were covered in sand) but I'd agree that they were very depleted by the fight since I doubt the horses just disappeared like the Anubis Warriors did.

The real telling thing is that the actual Army of Anubis' main portion, I forgot how big it was, but I liked the concept of it moving forward like a Sandstorm. The Medjai would've likely been immediately swamped and overrun by that second wave like it was a literal sand tsunami washing over them.



Hence I said badass warriors. Not a badass Army.

Didn't realize the YouTube vid was edited. Well, that makes things a bit better, I was under the impression that the survival rate against Anubis Warriors was along the lines of "Charging on foot into heavy machine gun fire." Instead, it's more "Charging on foot into heavy bolt action rifle fire." Not exactly fun but not absolutely certain death.

Still, I'm thinking the difference between the Medjai knowing how to actually fight the Anubis Warriors vs. the Dothraki having no clue is going to make the difference between "Thin black line of survivors" and a stomp for the Anubis Warriors.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

The Dothraki are swollen up by the sands.

Anubis is a full blown God and his army carries his power. Planetos has never seen the like.

 

[Agent23]

The Dothraki are swollen up by the sands.

Anubis is a full blown God and his army carries his power. Planetos has never seen the like.

Full blow god is usually a pretty stretchy term in SF&F, but I will agree with the swallowed by the sands bit.

 

[Jormungandr]

Thing is, those Anubis Warriors weren't (IIRC being key here) killed... they reformed as part of the second wave.

Every one of those decapitated Warriors? They were coming back.

 

[Agent23]

Thing is, those Anubis Warriors weren't (IIRC being key here) killed... they reformed as part of the second wave.

Every one of those decapitated Warriors? They were coming back.

Double oof for the Mongol LARPers.

 

[Jormungandr]

Double oof for the Mongol LARPers.

I might be wrong, but when you see the Warriors dissolve into black sand, and then you see that sand reforming/joining with more black sand to form the second wave... yeah, it doesn't look good for Martin's wannabe Mongols.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Yeah I was under the impression that the Anubis army, being...Well...Supernatural battle furries, would just endlessly regenerate/respawn because they're magic.

Why would Mummy Man be so interested in an army which contemporary armies could kill within a day? Anubis bros wouldn't do too well against machineguns or heaven forbid, artillery.

 

[Jormungandr]

Yeah I was under the impression that the Anubis army, being...Well...Supernatural battle furries, would just endlessly regenerate/respawn because they're magic.

Why would Mummy Man be so interested in an army which contemporary armies could kill within a day? Anubis bros wouldn't do too well against machineguns or heaven forbid, artillery.

If they were literally an endless wave ala Zerg, I could understand, but if they were a fixed amount that just constantly respawned like something from a modern multiplayer FPS... yeah, no matter how many times you "kill" the same Warrior, it'd just come back within a few minutes, probably pissed off and gunning for you personally.

Either way, you'd be fucked because A) Zerg Warriors would replace their lost numbers in minutes anyway or B) Respawning Warriors would just keep coming back no matter how many times you chop off their fucking heads.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I don't think I got the impression of the Army of Anubis reforming/being unkillable.

The numbers cited as per the sources from the Mummy Wiki are upwards of 96,000 for the Army of Anubis and two thousand in the Vanguard which the Medjai initially engaged.

The quote from within the movie IIRC is that they number as much as the grains of sand in the Sahara which would imply an "innumerable" number if it's hyperbole though I feel a hundred thousand superhuman nine foot tall dog headed Anubites led by Dwayne The Rock Johnson right after he plundered the world prior with a conventional army would be rather traumatizing to the Bronze Age world.

Regardless if the Army of Anubis is technically invulnerable (I tend to doubt it, maybe they have infinite spawning which makes any difference pointless but the idea that the Medjai did absolutely nothing sounds rather discounting of their sacrifices as depicted in the film and plus I don't think it was implied they'd reform like sand T-1000's) then that precludes any Versus in the first place if one side is not just innumerable but unkillable.

 

[Aldarion]

The Dothraki are swollen up by the sands.

Anubis is a full blown God and his army carries his power. Planetos has never seen the like.

Well, luckily for them, they are only facing Anubis' army, not Anubis himself.

I don't think I got the impression of the Army of Anubis reforming/being unkillable.

The numbers cited as per the sources from the Mummy Wiki are upwards of 96,000 for the Army of Anubis and two thousand in the Vanguard which the Medjai initially engaged.

The quote from within the movie IIRC is that they number as much as the grains of sand in the Sahara which would imply an "innumerable" number if it's hyperbole though I feel a hundred thousand superhuman nine foot tall dog headed Anubites led by Dwayne The Rock Johnson right after he plundered the world prior with a conventional army would be rather traumatizing to the Bronze Age world.

Regardless if the Army of Anubis is technically invulnerable (I tend to doubt it, maybe they have infinite spawning which makes any difference pointless but the idea that the Medjai did absolutely nothing sounds rather discounting of their sacrifices as depicted in the film and plus I don't think it was implied they'd reform like sand T-1000's) then that precludes any Versus in the first place if one side is not just innumerable but unkillable.

If they were literally an endless wave ala Zerg, I could understand, but if they were a fixed amount that just constantly respawned like something from a modern multiplayer FPS... yeah, no matter how many times you "kill" the same Warrior, it'd just come back within a few minutes, probably pissed off and gunning for you personally.

Either way, you'd be fucked because A) Zerg Warriors would replace their lost numbers in minutes anyway or B) Respawning Warriors would just keep coming back no matter how many times you chop off their fucking heads.

Hence this:

Assume that the forces are equal (10 000 each) and on the level ground.

They are limited to 10 000 dogheads. Meaning they only get infinite numbers if they have somehow unlocked the last-season TV Dothraki respawn mechanic.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Assume that the forces are equal (10 000 each)

Nitpick but usually fixed variables like this are frowned upon in Vs debates, because it renders the subtle benefits of each side useless.
So now we're not 'actually' debating Anubis army vs Dothraki, but rather two very very similar things which are specifically different.