Discussing Communism

[Cherenkov]

Bruh, America was just destroyed by civil servants who wanted to put their superiors in chains. Why do we need more of the vermin that are destroying civilizations? lol

You're going to need to clarify what the hell you're talking about before I can respond.

 

[The Mandarin]

You're going to need to clarify what the hell you're talking about before I can respond.

Burgerland's 2020 election was hijacked by the public sector. 74 million Americans lost their civil liberties because the wastrels who spent 20 years running that country into the ground got mad that people wanted them to stop lol.

 

[Cherenkov]

Burgerland's 2020 election was hijacked by the public sector. 74 million Americans lost their civil liberties because the wastrels who spent 20 years running that country into the ground got mad that people wanted them to stop lol.

I'm even more confused than I was before, so I doubt this discussion is going anywhere productive.

 

[Navarro]

The whole myth that the Soviet agricultural system proved sustainable from the 1950s onward after WW2 falls apart when you realise:

A. A large portion of the population had died due to famine and enemy invasion, leaving demographic effects that are still present in modern Russia today.
B. 25% of the food came from the 3% of farmland that was privately owned.
C. Even with these two factors, the USSR was still reliant on grain shipments from the capitalist West until its downfall.

In fact:



The second-to-last statistic kills it IMO.

 

[Doomsought]

Do to a diplomatic incident that was resolved by a Pepsi representative, the Soviets fell in love with Pepsi. Do to various trade barriers, the Soviets ended up paying Pepsico in vodka for their soda. However, the ineffective management of the Soviets was so inelastic that they eventually ran out of vodka to pay Pepsi with, and instead traded obsolete warships for soda-pop. This is at the highest level of action where central planning should be most able to respond.

 

[GoldRanger]

In fact:



The second-to-last statistic kills it IMO.

I don't know why you're putting so much effort into these things.

People flee from North Korea to South Korea, not the other way around.

People used to flee from East Germany to West Germany, not the other way around.

That's it. That's all the fact you really need to form a judgement.

 

[Cherico]

I don't know why you're putting so much effort into these things.

People flee from North Korea to South Korea, not the other way around.

People used to flee from East Germany to West Germany, not the other way around.

That's it. That's all the fact you really need to form a judgement.

Gold not every one we reason with is as smart as you are.

 

[Doomsought]

I keep hearing from Razorfist that Marx and Lennin were basically used as weapons during the first world war era. Germany and Russia would give them some money, and send them to someone they didn't like in order to cause trouble, like they were sentient chain letters.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Marx no? Given he died before the turn of the 20th century.

Lenin yes, the Germans assisted him getting back to Russia, though there is a lot of intrigue and uncertainties in that event.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I don't know why you're putting so much effort into these things.

People flee from North Korea to South Korea, not the other way around.

People used to flee from East Germany to West Germany, not the other way around.

That's it. That's all the fact you really need to form a judgement.

But those weren't real communism. Communism as defined by [POSTER] doesn't include bad things happening, ergo if anything bad happened that means it wasn't real communism/was caused by capitalists interfering with real communism.

 

[Cherico]

I keep hearing from Razorfist that Marx and Lennin were basically used as weapons during the first world war era. Germany and Russia would give them some money, and send them to someone they didn't like in order to cause trouble, like they were sentient chain letters.

When you look at the shear amount of damage murder and mayhem communism caused Russia over the roughly three generations it was in control well chain letters have nothing on that shit.

 

[Navarro]

When you look at the shear amount of damage murder and mayhem communism caused Russia over the roughly three generations it was in control well chain letters have nothing on that shit.

The Bolsheviks in 1917 were also heavily funded and armed by Imperial German intelligence.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Well, there are also indications that certain parties in New York and London, were backing them as well.

But that is a grave and dark line of investigation.

 

[Navarro]

Hmm, it seems the death toll of communism is 50% higher than Courtois' estimate at approx. 150 million:

Communist Body Count

The following estimates represent citizens killed or starved to death by their own Communist governments since 1918. These numbers do not include war dead. The governments are sorted by body count …

scottmanning.com

 

[Navarro]

Caplan on Marx's anti-freedom ideology:

Marxist Origins of Communism

 

[absenceofmalice]

That's not entirely true. Mercentalism emerged due to both the colonial empires and breakdown of the guild system. Modern capitalism really began in the 19th century, with the growth of both industry and the financial sector. Modern capitalism is the most debasing and destructive social force in history.

From foreclosures to environmental destruction, to the rampant greed and swindling, to the breakdown of community ties, family, and the endless search for more pools to invest it.

The opium crisis, deforestation, and the looting of countless communities-comes from capitalism. Not to mention the atomization, drug use, despair, and nihilism that both accompany it and reinforce it.

It was companies planning out long term profits that solved deforestation. Hunting is what pays for conservation.

 

[Deleted member 88]

It was companies planning out long term profits that solved deforestation. Hunting is what pays for conservation.

Capitalism is a destructive force. It’s creative destruction yes, but it is one of the most damaging things to Man spiritually, socially, and psychologically that ever existed.

 

[absenceofmalice]

Capitalism is a destructive force. It’s creative destruction yes, but it is one of the most damaging things to Man spiritually, socially, and psychologically that ever existed.

Yah except for all the worse ones its the worst. Capitalism has defeated starvation and created a society with a hundred times the economic mobility of any state that ever existed.

 

[Deleted member 88]

Yah except for all the worse ones its the worst. Capitalism has defeated starvation and created a society with a hundred times the economic mobility of any state that ever existed.

Look at the palm plantations in Indonesia, every vice industry, every incident of industrial abuse and accident, and every destroyed forest, look at the social anomie, the brutalization of Man, and the reduction of his essence to his labor-and tell me how amazing Capitalism is.

 

[Doomsought]

Capitalism is a destructive force. It’s creative destruction yes, but it is one of the most damaging things to Man spiritually, socially, and psychologically that ever existed.

There is nothing that has done to make evil people act like civilized men than capitalism. The one lesson of utilitarianism is that capitalism is the best environment to make evil act in a way that resembles good.

Also, a majority of problmes that are blamed on capitalism are actually the result of governments or other violent actors disrupting capitalism by coercing actions. For example, the Love Canal disaster was the result of a local government forcing a private company to sell a toxic waste dump. The capitalists that originally owned the toxic waste dump did everythign in their power to prevent people from being harmed by toxic waste. It was the government beurocrats that were fully responsible for the harm done and even more dispicably used their power to pass the blame.