United States Defunding/Abolishing the Police and Radical Police Reform in the US

[prinCZess]

The problem still remains sadly. The biggest problem with the US police force is that it isn't a police force but police forces, this is where installing a federal/national police comes in. One overarching set of training standards, one overarching standard of conduct, so on and so forth. Consolidating police departments is to ensure that no department gets left behind as it were.

The problem here is that the existing national LEO agencies which spring to mind (DEA, FBI, ATF) are also notorious for right-infringing, poor-behavioral BS. The DEA being a primary behind the Drug War, the FBI having both a past and present of spying and setting-up individuals or questionable, at best, treatment of rights (not to mention shitty behavior and effectiveness on the third of Indian reservations they're still tooling around as primary enforcers), and the ATF is perhaps most famous for its screw-ups, discrimination, and biased or selective enforcement of laws to suit political desires and whims.
For that matter, departments subject to federal reorganization and oversight have already happened...And, last I'd heard, hadn't been significantly improved (New Orleans and Chicago both, I believe, being under this and neither exactly conjuring to mind active improvement...Though it may exist--I've not looked into them in a while now).

Even granting it happening and ignoring all the rest, it'd require good leadership to establish. Which I don't trust Trump one iota to nominate, nor Biden for that matter--since Kamala Harris may well be on the short-list of AG candidates if not VP, and that shit's already toxic police stuff.
But THEN that leadership needs to last in perpetuity.

Nationalizing police only nationalizes problems already existent at the local and national levels. I definitely prefer local departments across what is probably-even a majority of the country that aren't the shitshow that the Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, and other various major police departments seem to fulfill every chance they got. I certainly prefer my local department to the various shitshows around--they're a hell of a lot easier to impact and replace than are national heads--or agents--would be (or are, in the case of those existing national-level LEOs).

The only (and a better, I'd contend) solution is people getting much more involved in their local policing situation and politics that affect them in their various incarnations and forms in the US.

 

[Deleted member 88]

A national police force is even less receptive to public pressure and has less incentive even PR incentive to care about what the community wants or thinks.

Not to mention it would be probably the greatest reorganization of the government since..1789? 1865?

To make every police department a national one.

Police departments are localized to deal with local problems-Alaska police officers and NYPD have very different challenges in terms of volume, social, climate, etc...

I can not support the nationalization of the police. It would further weaken the states and make them into provinces or departments.

From what I can tell-police and the national guard aren’t doing much to actually suppress the rioting, just cordoning it and letting it burn itself out.

 

[Husky_Khan]

How qualified immunity promotes the unreasonable use of force by police officers

With all of the turmoil around the country occurring in response to the tragic killing of George Floyd in Minnesota, there is a demand for policy answers to the problem of police misconduct. Unders…

thehill.com

Congressional Action Is the Best Way to Fix Qualified Immunity | National Review

Whatever the Supreme Court does going forward, a 150-year-old law needs a rewrite as the nation clamors for greater police accountability.

www.nationalreview.com

U.S. lawmaker prepares bill aiming to end court protection for police

(This June 1 story corrects to say Amash is a former Republican turned Libertarian instead of a conservative independent, paragraph 2)

www.reuters.com

So... the issue of Qualified Immunity is coming up a lot as of late. Qualified immunity in general seems like something that would absolutely be necessary just for law enforcement to be able to act in any sort of manner without getting personally sued into all Hell and oblivion.

But has Qualified Immunity become almost "Unqualified" Immunity with court cases and recent decisions since the concept of Qualified Immunity does imply things like "good faith" and violating "clearly established law?"

 

[Abhorsen]

So... the issue of Qualified Immunity is coming up a lot as of late. Qualified immunity in general seems like something that would absolutely be necessary just for law enforcement to be able to act in any sort of manner without getting personally sued into all Hell and oblivion.

Not at all. Qualified immunity is a disaster. Basically, it rewards cops for violating the constitution in novel ways.

 

[MelancholicMechanicus]

Feels >>>>> Reals



Truth is irrelevant. The narrative must move forward.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Mayor's getting eaten alive.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Mayor's getting eaten alive.

Who’s his rivals in the Democrat party? Whoever they are, they’ll probably get whomever among them isn’t white and hope that they don’t get turned on by their voters when their new NOT!Police proceed to be called RACIST again

 

[Arch Dornan]

If there's more like this annonymous lifelong Democrat they'll ensure Trump 2020.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

If there's more like this annonymous lifelong Democrat they'll ensure Trump 2020.

Are those Police Unions getting worried?

I think they’d turn to Trump out of spite, if anything

 

[Arch Dornan]

Are those Police Unions getting worried?

I think they’d turn to Trump out of spite, if anything

They're jobs are at risk so they'll want someone to help preserve it.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

They're jobs are at risk so they'll want someone to help preserve it.

Can Trump even do anything? I think it’s outside his jurisdiction and ultimately up to that state and city

I don’t know about you, but these cops(turned ex-cops) maybe getting sick of being bashed on, a bunch of them probably have nearly been killed by “minorities” and are “minorities” themselves

 

[Deleted member 88]

Idiot played himself. Now, he either defunds the police and gets torn apart by everyone with a working brain, or he doesnt defund the police and gets destroyed by the retarded leftists that somehow think modern society would work without the cops.

Getting rid of police is basically the NAP taken to its most retarded and ridiculous extreme and therefore runs into all the practical shortfalls thereof.

The police are basically the guns to everyone’s heads keeping people relatively civilized.

Without that gun, what would stop me from going down the street, kicking the shit out of my neighbor and taking everything in his house besides my own morality and my fear of being shot given I live in a gun friendly state?

NAP makes some amount of sense if literally everyone is armed to the teeth, and even then it runs into the obvious issues of potential gangs or corporate security forces running roughshod over individuals.

And these are the same people that want to ban guns as well. This gets more dumb the more I type.

Getting rid of the police is some of the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard in my goddamned life, and only smooth brained drooling mouth breathers think it’s a good idea./end rant

The people advocating defunding the police literally believe they can be replaced with on site social workers and therapists. This comes from a viewpoint where crime is simply the product of racism, poverty, or whatever. So a talk down by a trained therapist in their minds will somehow prevent crime from happening.

While having psychologically trained staff can probably be useful in some situations-domestic disputes, autistic or mentally ill people harming themselves or others, abusive families, etc... in your general robbery/mugging/gang murder they are absolutely useless. Unless they have magic empathy/persuasion powers which the people advocating defunding the police seem to believe.

They reference Europe as a model...when not even Europe is this "soft". Police in Europe will shoot if they must. They generally rely more on the threat of force to get criminals to comply, though they can definitely wrestle suspects to the ground too.

Its a combination of naivety and patronization honestly. It assumes a gentle social worker with a masters in interpersonal conflict psychology will get a gangbanger to stop committing a crime in progress, while also assuming said gangbanger isn't really responsible for his actions. Racism, poverty, poor education, xyz are and that he can't choose to you know not be a gangbanger.

Its an extremely stupid sort of "thinking".

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Its a combination of naivety and patronization honestly. It assumes a gentle social worker with a masters in interpersonal conflict psychology will get a gangbanger to stop committing a crime in progress, while also assuming said gangbanger isn't really responsible for his actions. Racism, poverty, poor education, xyz are and that he can't choose to you know not be a gangbanger.

You're in the way of the dream. If you don't get out of the way, they'll never have their peaceful AnarchoCommunist, Social Democrat, Eco Friendly, Post-Scarcity Star Trek Federation World Government

Your attempts to "reason" against us, merely show your horrible primitive, bigoted and barbaric tendencies and thus you are not worth having an argument with.

 

[Arch Dornan]

The people advocating defunding the police literally believe they can be replaced with on site social workers and therapists. This comes from a viewpoint where crime is simply the product of racism, poverty, or whatever. So a talk down by a trained therapist in their minds will somehow prevent crime from happening.

While having psychologically trained staff can probably be useful in some situations-domestic disputes, autistic or mentally ill people harming themselves or others, abusive families, etc... in your general robbery/mugging/gang murder they are absolutely useless. Unless they have magic empathy/persuasion powers which the people advocating defunding the police seem to believe.

They reference Europe as a model...when not even Europe is this "soft". Police in Europe will shoot if they must. They generally rely more on the threat of force to get criminals to comply, though they can definitely wrestle suspects to the ground too.

Its a combination of naivety and patronization honestly. It assumes a gentle social worker with a masters in interpersonal conflict psychology will get a gangbanger to stop committing a crime in progress, while also assuming said gangbanger isn't really responsible for his actions. Racism, poverty, poor education, xyz are and that he can't choose to you know not be a gangbanger.

Its an extremely stupid sort of "thinking".

Like this?

 

[Cherico]

The people advocating defunding the police literally believe they can be replaced with on site social workers and therapists. This comes from a viewpoint where crime is simply the product of racism, poverty, or whatever. So a talk down by a trained therapist in their minds will somehow prevent crime from happening.

While having psychologically trained staff can probably be useful in some situations-domestic disputes, autistic or mentally ill people harming themselves or others, abusive families, etc... in your general robbery/mugging/gang murder they are absolutely useless. Unless they have magic empathy/persuasion powers which the people advocating defunding the police seem to believe.

They reference Europe as a model...when not even Europe is this "soft". Police in Europe will shoot if they must. They generally rely more on the threat of force to get criminals to comply, though they can definitely wrestle suspects to the ground too.

Its a combination of naivety and patronization honestly. It assumes a gentle social worker with a masters in interpersonal conflict psychology will get a gangbanger to stop committing a crime in progress, while also assuming said gangbanger isn't really responsible for his actions. Racism, poverty, poor education, xyz are and that he can't choose to you know not be a gangbanger.

Its an extremely stupid sort of "thinking".

Sufficient arrogance is indisquinishable from stupidity.

 

[PeliusAnar]

Like this?

Honestly when I first watched the movie I laughed my ass off at the useless police. Now this seems like the kind of police force the left wants. Where they scold the criminals and don't escalate in force. I want a SJW to explain and answer questions on what exactly would replace the police if not other police?


I would reference The Wire as the best look at why people commit crimes and how disadvantaged neighborhoods and individuals struggle. It was also telling that the entire series was dependent on the police force being continually underfunded. Instead of cutting police budgets as a response, why not...wait for it.....give them money to hire better people, give more training, and prevent officers from being overworked. Have officers walk a beat in pairs in neighborhoods so they can do the community policing that the left wants. There is diversity hiring at so many companies, why don't these liberal cities hire some minorities for their police forces? But again, that requires an actual budget to implement said programs and to make the commitment to paying for them. It requires actually getting tough on actual crime and preventing low level crime to stop higher level ones (broken window theory).

But hey, we can just have an underfunded police department going around scolding criminals. That will sure show them, golly gee!

 

[CarlManvers2019]

But hey, we can just have an underfunded police department going around scolding criminals. That will sure show them, golly gee!

You know what? let them disband and/or massively defund their police forces

People buy guns and become dangerous survivalists

The government decides to defund even more or ban guns and now everybody just buys guns off the black market and soon everyone has little choice but to be polite and/or a Badass motherfucker

 

[PeliusAnar]

You know what? let them disband and/or massively defund their police forces

People buy guns and become dangerous survivalists

The government decides to defund even more or ban guns and now everybody just buys guns off the black market and soon everyone has little choice but to be polite and/or a Badass motherfucker

I for one do not want to live like that. But it seems the direction things are headed. Can we not live in a rendition of Mad Max or Escape from New York?

 

[Bigking321]

If it ever happens it will just be in blue states and cities.

Just don't live there and you'll be fine.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I for one do not want to live like that. But it seems the direction things are headed. Can we not live in a rendition of Mad Max or Escape from New York?

If it ever happens it will just be in blue states and cities.

Just don't live there and you'll be fine.

You move away to another state, but unfortunately the crazies will follow without ever having bought a single gun and proceeding to argue to imitate the Blues

Now if they actually have to live in the result of their actions, they’d adapt sooner or later