China ChiCom News Thread

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
One Child policy was revoked years ago.
Now it's have as many children as you can

First off, no it isn't, it's two children, and second off, this is after the damage has already been done.

It was preceded by a two-child policy in the sixties, and was implemented in 1978/79, running until 2015. It was then changed back to the two-child policy. In the 80's they modified it so that rural families that had a daughter could have a second child, but it was still strictly one-child in the city.

Now, to make that clear, that means that for almost forty years, the Chinese were forcibly cutting their population size by almost half. Compounding the problem from an economic standpoint, is the fact that this comes at the same time as finally not being in constant danger of starvation, combined with improvement in medical care, mean that people were living longer and longer past both the age of retirement, and the age at which most people could practically keep contributing to the economy even if they weren't retiring.

This means that as they go over the hump, China is facing an absolutely enormous population crunch. Historically, only major plagues and famines could result in anything nearly this bad. There are enormous economic consequences to all of this.

China's major boom in prosperity has been based on four things:

1. An utterly destitute Communist economic system becoming much more free-market.
2. Cheap labor being available for western companies to take advantage of for all their production facilities, and western countries actively courting the Chinese allowing this. They would also build things nobody wanted just to create job.
3. An enormous population of young adults and middle-aged people to do tons of work.
4. The ability to rampantly steal other people's technology and Intellectual Property Rights.

That was China's position in the 90's through to ~2019.

Now:

1. Winnie the Jinping has been tightening the system up, making it less free market.
2. Chinese labor is more expensive than alternatives in Mexico, Vietnam, India, and others. Western nations are now a lot more pissed with China, Japan is paying their own companies to get manufacturing out.
3. Their population dividend is running out, hard, and they're on a downswing now.
4. While it hasn't stopped, technology theft has rapidly slowed.

And on top of all of this:

5. The Chinese are in hilariously enormous amounts of debt.
6. The Coronavirus backlash.

On the flip side, for all their problems, they are in a much better place than they were in 1990, so if they don't fall to total anarchy, they'll end up somewhere that is still better than they once were.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
I hate to burst your bubble but . . .

Principles of Naval Weapons System, Second Edition, by Craig Payne
Chapter 19: Weapons of Mass Destruction, Page 390

"There is little to distinguish a vaccine or pharmaceutical factory from a biological agent facility. Virtually all equipment, technology and materials needed for biological agent production are dual use. The technical skills required to start and run a program are commensurate with the basic procedures of microbiology, with any required additional knowledge easily gained through training courses available from equipment suppliers or at scientific meetings."

"Any nation with a modestly developed pharmaceutical industry has the necessary technical infrastructure to produce biological warfare agents. The equipment used to produce biological agents is dual use in nature, and a laboratory devoted to biological warfare research will generally be similar to a facility engaged in peaceful research activities."
Not to mention that one of the things that lead to us learning about the Soviet Union's secret bioweapons program was an accident at one of their biolabs which infected a local population with anthrax, which, incidentally, was disguised as a pharmaceutical lab.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Guys corona is not a biological weapon. If it actually is that means we should feather a sigh of relief since the Chinese apparently suck at making plagues. The whole flu is just a slightly worse cold/flu it has 99 percent survivable. If it was a bio weapons I think the Chinese are smart enough to build a more lethal one.
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Not to mention that one of the things that lead to us learning about the Soviet Union's secret bioweapons program was an accident at one of their biolabs which infected a local population with anthrax, which, incidentally, was disguised as a pharmaceutical lab.
which one?
The one in northern Russia or the one in Aralsk-7?
 

BlackDragon98

Freikorps Kommandant
Banned - Politics
Guys corona is not a biological weapon. If it actually is that means we should feather a sigh of relief since the Chinese apparently suck at making plagues. The whole flu is just a slightly worse cold/flu it has 99 percent survivable. If it was a bio weapons I think the Chinese are smart enough to build a more lethal one.
yeah, but it fucks over your entire respiratory system if something goes wrong.
You'll live, but I wouldn't call that living.

It was probably a prototype or a precursor that was not properly disposed of (aka the lab assistant sold the bat to the meat/seafood market), rather than a final, finished product.
 

DarthOne

☦️
Guys corona is not a biological weapon. If it actually is that means we should feather a sigh of relief since the Chinese apparently suck at making plagues. The whole flu is just a slightly worse cold/flu it has 99 percent survivable. If it was a bio weapons I think the Chinese are smart enough to build a more lethal one.
You assume that, if it is a bioweapon, that it was designed to be super-lethal. What if it isn't?

Such a weapon would be pretty useless in this day and age. It would only be useful against less developed countries and would carry a significant risk of backfiring (like all bioweapons) or attracting suspicion and attention from other nations. Likewise, in a war against a nation or coalition of equal power, it would be useless. As it would either only escalate the conflict to the point of nuclear weapons or would be too late as by that point the nukes are already flying and a bioweapon is too little and too late.

Now, something that's milder- or just got out by accident early- is much easier to pass off as natural. Never mind how China and their puppets have been incredibly opportunistic with it, even if it wasn't a bioweapon. The lockdowns have screwed over everyone who isn't a multi-national megacorporation and was a great way to undermine Trump and get Biden (someone China has plenty of dirt on and who is much more suited to their needs than Trump) into power. That's not even going into how the Chinese Coof has caused chaos and plenty of distraction in the media for Joe and Jane Average.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Guys corona is not a biological weapon. If it actually is that means we should feather a sigh of relief since the Chinese apparently suck at making plagues. The whole flu is just a slightly worse cold/flu it has 99 percent survivable. If it was a bio weapons I think the Chinese are smart enough to build a more lethal one.
Yeah, at this point we can say that the bioweapon angle is nothing but a random conspiracy and a strawman to punch the moment someone brings up the curious co-location of the outbreak with China's only BSL-4 biolab. Here's the most credible theory on how that adds up, and it is taken seriously by some quite respectable people.
TL;DR it could be a gain-of-function research accident. Which is not bioweapon research, at least in the idea. It would also explain why it was in the research facilities, and also why it doesn't have signs of genetic engineering - the whole point of GoF research is to see what pathogens could mutate into by themselves, so creating experiments in which mutations are likely to occur is how they get new pathogens out of these.
Its especially ironic considering that USA has banned exactly this type of research in 2014, exactly because of the risk of such a scenario. But the researchers who wanted to do it went around that piece of red tape by outsourcing the research to be done in China, where US law and regulations of course do not apply...

If all of that is true then this scenario has several more layers of shitshow than most of the public imagine, which may well be why no one is pushing too hard into explaining the mysteries that this scenario explains.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
On the flip side, for all their problems, they are in a much better place than they were in 1990, so if they don't fall to total anarchy, they'll end up somewhere that is still better than they once were.
The key to that is going to be ousting the CCP, and replacing them with something at least marginally less authoritarian. Otherwise the underlying issues that created their problems won't be address, and they'll just resurface.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
The key to that is going to be ousting the CCP, and replacing them with something at least marginally less authoritarian. Otherwise the underlying issues that created their problems won't be address, and they'll just resurface.

One of the interesting building cultural trends is Christianity. There are over 300 million Chinese Christians, and that number is steadily growing. It'll be interesting seeing what happens once they stop being deliberately excluded from governance.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
One of the interesting building cultural trends is Christianity. There are over 300 million Chinese Christians, and that number is steadily growing. It'll be interesting seeing what happens once they stop being deliberately excluded from governance.

Mao deliberatly destroyed a lot of china's religious and cultural traditions some thing was going to fill that void.

Christianity is used to the kind of tactics that the chi coms use and is fully capable of growing in an underground until its strong enough to affect change.

Its likely that the churches here will engage in similar tactics when our own Neo optimates go after religion in earnist in attempt to maintain power at all costs.
 

prinCZess

Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
A wrinkle in that (the growing population of Christians in China) is to what degree they're steered or directed already by CCP organs versus the underground/house church phenomenon. The former is probably only going to strengthen the state further by letting the Party direct bishops or priests as they wish (Now, in the case of Catholics, with the full backing of the Holy See!), and whether the latter even has the numbers for any influence is something of an open question, much less issues of becoming infiltrated by Party agents who steer the 'resistance' or any other such similar tactic Communist totalitarians are famous for being good at.

Of course, that's a question that can't be answered really since you can't well trust the Chinese state apparatus on reporting figures, and underground churches don't report themselves for...obvious reasons.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
A wrinkle in that (the growing population of Christians in China) is to what degree they're steered or directed already by CCP organs versus the underground/house church phenomenon. The former is probably only going to strengthen the state further by letting the Party direct bishops or priests as they wish (Now, in the case of Catholics, with the full backing of the Holy See!), and whether the latter even has the numbers for any influence is something of an open question, much less issues of becoming infiltrated by Party agents who steer the 'resistance' or any other such similar tactic Communist totalitarians are famous for being good at.

Of course, that's a question that can't be answered really since you can't well trust the Chinese state apparatus on reporting figures, and underground churches don't report themselves for...obvious reasons.

Indeed.

I've seen some of the explosive growth of the Chinese church myself, among Chinese outside of China, but how that will play out inside of it is of course a different thing.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
A wrinkle in that (the growing population of Christians in China) is to what degree they're steered or directed already by CCP organs versus the underground/house church phenomenon. The former is probably only going to strengthen the state further by letting the Party direct bishops or priests as they wish (Now, in the case of Catholics, with the full backing of the Holy See!), and whether the latter even has the numbers for any influence is something of an open question, much less issues of becoming infiltrated by Party agents who steer the 'resistance' or any other such similar tactic Communist totalitarians are famous for being good at.

Of course, that's a question that can't be answered really since you can't well trust the Chinese state apparatus on reporting figures, and underground churches don't report themselves for...obvious reasons.

If the chi coms fall the next chinese regieme will be a very traditionalist one.

If it does go chrsitian it will be a very chinese chistianity which is normal because its a very adaptive faith.

It could go buddist, or taoist, of a number of things but smart money is it will go back to chinas traditions. Which will be a step up because china's traditions are actually not bad things at all.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
If the chi coms fall the next chinese regieme will be a very traditionalist one.

If it does go chrsitian it will be a very chinese chistianity which is normal because its a very adaptive faith.

It could go buddist, or taoist, of a number of things but smart money is it will go back to chinas traditions. Which will be a step up because china's traditions are actually not bad things at all.
Really hoping they don't go with Christianity; we've got enough of that in the world already, and I'd love to see a revival of China's traditional spiritual beliefs.
 

King Arts

Well-known member
Eh.
Asians can keep thier stuff they don't need to be Christian
I’m not saying launch a fucking crusade. I’m just saying that it would be great if people joined the true religion I understand it’s not likely and I respect peoples desire and choice to worship the way their ancestors did. Even though Christianity unlike Islam is open to many cultures.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I’m not saying launch a fucking crusade. I’m just saying that it would be great if people joined the true religion I understand it’s not likely and I respect peoples desire and choice to worship the way their ancestors did. Even though Christianity unlike Islam is open to many cultures.
I get that the whole concept of believing in a particular religion demands that you also believe it's the only one that's "correct"; but personally? I'm an agnostic theist; so I'm not exactly on board with the whole "One True Religion" shtick.
 

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