Buffy the Vampire Slayer, a discussion thread and retrospective

[Ash's Boomstick]

I think to an extent there's the more public view of California being a gun hating, anti-authortarian state, both of which would be why there was less of a growth and improvement of their weapons and equipment, also why anyone with authority was seen as the bad guys (Watchers, Initiative, Knight etc) and all had to be shown to be so. Also has to prove that those who don't follow those rules are always in the right even when they are evidently not, which is shown time and again in series.

The fact is that some people were shown as the weakest members, all of them the male cast, even though they had proven they were anything but. Both Giles and Xander were superior combatants to all except Buffy yet were supposed to be useless, unless somehow Willow had superpowers that made her stronger and more combat capable against demons (Oh yeah they did that but took years before she did) when going one on one.

In the end the guys were made to look less than decent because the writers were useless, its that simple, you want a strong character then write a strong character and don't just emasculate everyone else, its not rocket science.

 

[Abhorsen]

Trick didn't need much prompting. He was 'The Modern day Vampire' and he went to Modern day solutions. Which meant guns. He was an awesome villain. Shame about the way he went out.

I would hold Trick as the exception that proved the rule. He was one of the few that did do it. Note that vampires, because the powerful ones are centuries old, probably disdain guns as well. So not forcing them to evolve is a good idea. But eventually, there will be another Trick, and it will catch on. But yes, Trick was awesome.

And yeah, the reasons aren't the most compelling, but I feel there needs to be a devils advocate here.

 

[Spartan303]

I would hold Trick as the exception that proved the rule. He was one of the few that did do it. Note that vampires, because the powerful ones are centuries old, probably disdain guns as well. So not forcing them to evolve is a good idea. But eventually, there will be another Trick, and it will catch on. But yes, Trick was awesome.

And yeah, the reasons aren't the most compelling, but I feel there needs to be a devils advocate here.

You may have a point. But I would argue its the older generations holding the newer ones back. Vampires seem rooted in the middle ages mindset. They taught the younger generation to think a certain way and act a certain way. They often had a point too. As the Young would typically get killed within a few years of being turned. Either by Slayers or Hunters. I'm not sure what Trick was in his former life, but we can infer he was likely as shady then as he was as a Vampire. Just less restrictive.

 

[LordSunhawk]

Darla used pistols as well.

I enjoyed the show, but absolutely love good fanfics *of* the show. They say that the best fodder for good fanfic is when a fictional property has massive flaws that need to be addressed while still being entertaining enough to attract attention, and Buffy is certainly in that category.

Helps that the show started while I was in college and SMG was smokin' *grins*

 

[Abhorsen]

You may have a point. But I would argue its the older generations holding the newer ones back. Vampires seem rooted in the middle ages mindset. They taught the younger generation to think a certain way and act a certain way. They often had a point too. As the Young would typically get killed within a few years of being turned. Either by Slayers or Hunters. I'm not sure what Trick was in his former life, but we can infer he was likely as shady then as he was as a Vampire. Just less restrictive.

My impression of Trick was always that he was a newish vampire, that rose to prominence because of his use of technology.

I enjoyed the show, but absolutely love good fanfics *of* the show. They say that the best fodder for good fanfic is when a fictional property has massive flaws that need to be addressed while still being entertaining enough to attract attention, and Buffy is certainly in that category.

Also, is this the place to rec Buffy fanfic? Because if so, I'd like to rec the ongoing quest Successor, by DeAnno, on SV. The basic premise is that Buffy has the mayorship thrust upon her after the Mayor's death, which creates just as many problems as it solves. Sure, the police aren't a problem, but getting elected is! The highlight is that the author really keeps the spirit of the problem of the week going with an episodic format to the quest. It really feels like the show. The choice not to use stats and instead make it a narrative quest really helps. If you do read it, please post what you thought about it.

 

[Tiamat]

Sure, why not? Post or recommend any Buffy fanfics you wish, this is open discussion after all, unless the mods disagree?

I do have a Buffy multiverse fanfic I've been sitting on myself that I really need to get writing actually.

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

I write Buffy fic to an extent, not nearly as much as I used to (Started out BX writing about 22 years ago).

There's a lot of great stuff out there. some making characters more capable with overpowering them and others making them actually somewhat effective without screwing with other characters for no good reason.

And at least one I wonder if the writers of Angel saw once and decided to steal.

 

[Tiamat]

I write Buffy fic to an extent, not nearly as much as I used to (Started out BX writing about 22 years ago).

There's a lot of great stuff out there. some making characters more capable with overpowering them and others making them actually somewhat effective without screwing with other characters for no good reason.

And at least one I wonder if the writers of Angel saw once and decided to steal.

Any fanfics in particular you recommend? I do confess I have a soft spot for Jenny Calendar, as she was one of my favorite early characters, and yes, Whedon pissed me off by killing her so damn early, so any decent fanfics that feature her still alive I like to check out.

Also while they're not common, any fanfics with BTVS that feature some more military/paramilitary elements (NOT the Initiative) are of interest to me to. I did write a few fanfics of Buffy for a multiverse that was up a while ago with it's own website called Wandererverse.

And I confess I am curious about the Angel fanfic with the story idea AtS might have "borrowed".

 

[Spartan303]

Any fanfics in particular you recommend? I do confess I have a soft spot for Jenny Calendar, as she was one of my favorite early characters, and yes, Whedon pissed me off by killing her so damn early, so any decent fanfics that feature her still alive I like to check out.

Also while they're not common, any fanfics with BTVS that feature some more military/paramilitary elements (NOT the Initiative) are of interest to me to. I did write a few fanfics of Buffy for a multiverse that was up a while ago with it's own website called Wandererverse.

And I confess I am curious about the Angel fanfic with the story idea AtS might have "borrowed".

There is the Wonderland Subject by McGregor. Guy was one of the most solid Xander writers I've ever seen. But he did great work on the others as well. Infact, all his Buffy stuff I think is required reading. Shame as I think he's passed on.

TtH • Story • The Wonderland Subject

A "Marvel Universe > Ultimate Universe" fan-fiction story. During an attempt to retrieve a Slayer from a dangerous situation, Xander Harris falls into the rabbit hole. What happens after he falls back out again?. "The Wonderland Subject" by MMcGregor

www.tthfanfic.org

 

[Tiamat]

I confess I am more intrigued with the premise of Xander just learning to be a "badass normal" for lack of a better term, like Wesley ultimately became on AtS. I'd be all for the girls becoming what they did, Buffy the Slayer, Willow the Witch, Cordelia the Seer, etc. but with Xander just becoming the man who learns to be a very effective monster hunter, perhaps taking a cue or two from Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International. Just imagine...a hunter that demons and monsters fear not so much because of his skills, though he's good...but more because the man just drives them absolutely crazy with quips and will not shut up. Kinda like Buffy, but without the superpowers....unless you count witty repartee as a superpower. 😜

 

[Spartan303]

I confess I am more intrigued with the premise of Xander just learning to be a "badass normal" for lack of a better term, like Wesley ultimately became on AtS. I'd be all for the girls becoming what they did, Buffy the Slayer, Willow the Witch, Cordelia the Seer, etc. but with Xander just becoming the man who learns to be a very effective monster hunter, perhaps taking a cue or two from Larry Correia's Monster Hunter International. Just imagine...a hunter that demons and monsters fear not so much because of his skills, though he's good...but more because the man just drives them absolutely crazy with quips and will not shut up. Kinda like Buffy, but without the superpowers....unless you count witty repartee as a superpower. 😜

'I am what I am' would be a better choice then.

 

[Tiamat]

Darla used pistols as well.

I enjoyed the show, but absolutely love good fanfics *of* the show. They say that the best fodder for good fanfic is when a fictional property has massive flaws that need to be addressed while still being entertaining enough to attract attention, and Buffy is certainly in that category.

Helps that the show started while I was in college and SMG was smokin' *grins*

Wasnt just SMG who was smoking...Charisma Carpenter, Alyson Hanigan, Robia Lamorte(who played Jenny Calendar)...hell all the girls were hot. I wish the high schools i attended all had girls that looked that good.😮

 

[Tiamat]

And on what was discussed earlier about Whedon, the following articles may offer a few details. Be wary of the sources though.

'Buffy' Stars Silent on Joss Whedon Accusations From Ex-Wife - TheWrap

Kai Cole says Whedon called females on the set "beautiful, needy, aggressive young women"

www.google.com

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

And this three parter here that goes into more discussion for your perusal...again, YMMV.

On Joss Whedon, Part One: Wonder Woman and Why I Care | Vol. 4 / No. 43.1a | This Week In Tomorrow

www.thisweekintomorrow.com

On Joss Whedon, Part Two: The Allegations and What They Mean | Vol. 4 / No. 43.1b | This Week In Tomorrow

www.thisweekintomorrow.com

On Joss Whedon, Part Three: Do We Still Get to Like Things? | Vol. 4 / No. 43.1c | This Week In Tomorrow

www.thisweekintomorrow.com

 

[CurtisLemay]

Working on a mashup of Buffy and Twilight:2000 (yes, I know), but it works, it's going to stick close to 1st Ed T2K canon and I am going to play with some other ideas? And the vamps? Angel leaves and never returns, and Spike/Dru? Well, how do vamps do against 550kt?

 

[Spartan303]

Currently working on a BTVS/MCU crossover centered on Xander.

 

[Terthna]

I was never that big a fan of Buffy; but Angel's spinoff? My mother absolutely loved that show, and she dragged me along with her to the point where I grew to love it too. One thing I never really got over though was how Whedon kept killing off his characters; it always felt cheap and poorly executed, particularly in how it almost always seemed to happen to the ones he had run out of ideas for.

 

[Tiamat]

I was never that big a fan of Buffy; but Angel's spinoff? My mother absolutely loved that show, and she dragged me along with her to the point where I grew to love it too. One thing I never really got over though was how Whedon kept killing off his characters; it always felt cheap and poorly executed, particularly in how it almost always seemed to happen to the ones he had run out of ideas for.

And in light of some of the other rumors now surfacing, it does make you wonder, especially with what happened with Charisma Carpenter.

From what I heard Robia Lamorte had objections about getting pulled back to the show just to be an illusion of the "First Evil" (never really cared for that villain myself, it just talked endlessly all the damn time) in Season Three, and I kind of agreed as it felt like a dick move. Instead if they were gonna kill her off like they did, it would be nice if instead they brought her back in some form to give Giles a true sense of closure, instead of making it about Angel, AGAIN. It's telling that there was another woman brought on briefly who I barely remember who I think was going to be Gile's newest interest but she wasn't on more than a few eps, she didn't really click with Giles the way Jenny did and I'm sure I wasn't the only one to notice. Also I heard Amber Benson who played Tara refused to come back for Season Seven as they had a similar plan to have the First Evil impersonate her, she hated the idea and felt it was so damn depressing when Season Six, and for the most part Season Seven was so damn grimdark to begin with. I would also argue by Season Seven the humor definitely felt forced...you got this feeling the cast was just done with the show and wanted it to end.

 

[Spartan303]

From what I heard Robia Lamorte had objections about getting pulled back to the show just to be an illusion of the "First Evil" (never really cared for that villain myself, it just talked endlessly all the damn time) in Season Three, and I kind of agreed as it felt like a dick move. Instead if they were gonna kill her off like they did, it would be nice if instead they brought her back in some form to give Giles a true sense of closure, instead of making it about Angel, AGAIN. It's telling that there was another woman brought on briefly who I barely remember who I think was going to be Gile's newest interest but she wasn't on more than a few eps, she didn't really click with Giles the way Jenny did and I'm sure I wasn't the only one to notice. Also I heard Amber Benson who played Tara refused to come back for Season Seven as they had a similar plan to have the First Evil impersonate her, she hated the idea and felt it was so damn depressing when Season Six, and for the most part Season Seven was so damn grimdark to begin with. I would also argue by Season Seven the humor definitely felt forced...you got this feeling the cast was just done with the show and wanted it to end.

Robia was a born again Christian. She was rather offended they wanted to bring her back to essentially play the Devil.

And in light of some of the other rumors now surfacing, it does make you wonder, especially with what happened with Charisma Carpenter.

Dude, if you want, PM me and I'll tell you. But I'm not going to post them here.

 

[Tiamat]

Robia was a born again Christian. She was rather offended they wanted to bring her back to essentially play the Devil.

Indeed she was, it's telling she was never brought back after that. I mean, if she were somehow resurrected for Season Seven and joined the cast in the fight against the "Big Bad", that would have rocked:

Jenny: "So the 'First Evil' IMPERSONATED me with that dress I had? Oh, that's it, he's going down..."

Buffy: "Yeah...but you were kinda the one wearing it when....you know..."

Jenny: "Touche, Buffy..."

Buffy: "No worries....I was the one who got to kill my boyfriend and send him to Hell, remember? Oh...wait, you don't...nevermind."


EDIT: But no...instead, we got another "Potential" who forced herself on Willow, and....Andrew, who had to be one of the most pathetic BTVS characters ever. 😡🤬

 

[Ash's Boomstick]

Most of the fics I enjoyed are long since gone really, I lost a massive archive I has a few years ago which bummed me out to no end.

As for the fic i question.

In around 1998/1999 there was a fic series, kind of a virtual season before that became a thing. At the end of that first season, magic shenanigans had Angel end up with a son, that son was kidnapped from him and aged up via magic/time/space manipulation to grow up into an adult, to hate his father and to be used as a weapon against him.

Sound familiar?