Blood Angels Legion in Stargate Galaxy

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
Assume that during season 2 of SG-1, Baal and its two moons replace Venus in the Solar System. Assume that Sanguinius, the entire Blood Angels Legion at the height of their power (150000 Astartes + 300 Capital Ships + 600 Escorts + the Mechanicus facilities in Baal system that allow Blood Angels to build and maintain their fleet and army) are transported to SG-1 verse.

How will Sanguinius with his Legion shape the course of events to come in SG Milky Way?
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
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They get fucked, hard.

This is the kind of threat that the goa'uld take seriously. Which means the virus bombs and planet crackers get used as first resorts.

Goa'uld FTL as of season two is absurdly faster and more reliable than 40k FTL. They also have the superior industrial base and a far larger army. Oh, and goa'uld sensor systems are way better.

Unless you decide to allow all the 40k stuff to utilize a chaos free warp at least. I mean no Chaos and a calm warp is a total game changer in many respects.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
Just from the number of ships the Blood Angels would likely be an ungodly force on the galaxy since its unlikely the Goa'ulds fields a fleet much larger than a few hundred with limited ability to replenishes losses since they have almost no infrastructure and are highly dependent on bronze age slaves for mining their raw resources.

Depending on the calcs you run with for 40K battles engaging those ships is going to be a nightmarish proposition. I'd say the Blood Angels would become the 600 pound gorilla of the Milky Way galaxy with the Goa'uld forced to completely revaluate their society.

I think this is implied by the setting. Based on being in the SG'verse, the Warp is clear and calm.
But would that help the Blood Angels? That is has it been given any detail if IoM ships are powered crafts within the context of the Warp, ie they can propel themselves through it and the currents are only a drag slowing them, or are they more like sailing ships where the currents are what propel the ship?
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
A lot of the System Lords home planets seem pretty basic from what we've seen on the show, even their shipyards look like an (admittedly neat) sprinkling of high tech in a low tech setting. The only exception I can remember is Sokar's home planet of Delmak which from the few glimpses we got of it looked rather futuristic, advanced and urban or densely built up.

But then again that might make sense considering how Sokar was apparently emerging from a period of prolonged isolation. Maybe the dude had been busy.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
But would that help the Blood Angels? That is has it been given any detail if IoM ships are powered crafts within the context of the Warp, ie they can propel themselves through it and the currents are only a drag slowing them, or are they more like sailing ships where the currents are what propel the ship?
They are not sailing ships in regards to the Warp.

A calm Warp means that they will travel much faster FTL than they do in 40K, but I'm not sure of how much so.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
Just from the number of ships the Blood Angels would likely be an ungodly force on the galaxy since its unlikely the Goa'ulds fields a fleet much larger than a few hundred with limited ability to replenishes losses since they have almost no infrastructure and are highly dependent on bronze age slaves for mining their raw resources.
IIRC, the System Lords' fleets ran into the thousands if not 10's of thousands of vessels. Canonically, I don't know what portion are actual combat vessels vs cargo, but there you go.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
IIRC, the System Lords' fleets ran into the thousands if not 10's of thousands of vessels. Canonically, I don't know what portion are actual combat vessels vs cargo, but there you go.
The thing about Ha'taks is that, yes, they have some big guns and shield generators, but they're the equivalent of the old Man'o'Wars fielded by navies centuries ago, big ass cannons and all.

Their fighters, the Death Gliders, are pretty weak.

Ironically, given how 40k IoM ships operate, they're more like modern destroyers in comparison.

Having a hundred Ha'taks means nothing if they get punctured like deflated balloons, Ori-style.

Now, let's look at the soldiers used by the System Lords: the Jaffa act like Napoleonic infantry, and I'm pretty sure their staff weapons are something Space Marine armour would shrug off because we've seen worse shit thrown at them in 40k.

Given that we've also seen their armour, not the high-tech stuff used by Ra (such as the cybernetic helmets) but the bog standard stuff used (helmet, et cetera), get punctured and shredded by modern firearms, I'm pretty sure bolters would Swiss cheese them en masse.

The only advantages, I think, the System Lords would have is underhanded shit like viral weaponry; however, if the Goa'uld crack out those nasties, I'm pretty sure the Death Angels wouldn't hesitate either -- and the IoM has some far more horrific stuff up their sleeves.

The only thing that'd cause issues would be the Blood Angels' leadership, since they and other Space Marine chapters can be, frankly, fucking morons that are hung up on tradition and such (which is why a Certain Returned Primarch and his Primaris Marines had to proverbially beat them and the IoM fleet captains into line when he wanted to use ships tactically, not based on prestige and glory).
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
They are not sailing ships in regards to the Warp.

A calm Warp means that they will travel much faster FTL than they do in 40K, but I'm not sure of how much so.
Okay, and which book elaborates on this? I've thumbed through the sourcebook and its wording is ambiguous.

IIRC, the System Lords' fleets ran into the thousands if not 10's of thousands of vessels. Canonically, I don't know what portion are actual combat vessels vs cargo, but there you go.
Per Thor the System Lords, as of season 3, could field a force a hundred times that of Apophis two Ha'taks indicating they top out around the 200's. Something echoed a few seasons down the line where the Tok'Ra having planted trackers on a hundred Goa'uld ships allows them to meaningfully track their fleet movements in general and Ba'al in particular.

To my knowledge despite most fleets post season 3 either being the combined might of the System Lords or from a Goa'uld who can challenge their combined might we never see more than a few dozen Ha'taks at any one time.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
Apparently 91 Ha'taks were destroyed on screen with a 101 mentioned as being destroyed in general. Though I feel like it's undercounted. IIRC the first appearance of the Asgard resulted in the destruction of three Ha'taks as well on Cimmeria, the Viking planet.

But yeah we've seen at least a dozen or more Ha'taks several times in the show. During Apophis and Heru'ur's meeting in the minefields over Vorash during negotiations, Lord Yu's combined fleet during the Battle of Abydos, the Battle over Antartica in Lost City, the Ori Supergate Battle, the Battle over Langara, the three way Battle over Dakara and in the althistory where Baal Invaded Earth in Stargate: Continuum. I think in some of them it was three dozen or more Ha'taks featured like in Dakara and Stargate Continuum, the former notable considering it took place after the System Lords must've suffered some grievous losses over the previous eight seasons plus the galaxy wide Replicator Invasion.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
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Staff Member
Founder
Just from the number of ships the Blood Angels would likely be an ungodly force on the galaxy since its unlikely the Goa'ulds fields a fleet much larger than a few hundred with limited ability to replenishes losses since they have almost no infrastructure and are highly dependent on bronze age slaves for mining their raw resources.

Depending on the calcs you run with for 40K battles engaging those ships is going to be a nightmarish proposition. I'd say the Blood Angels would become the 600 pound gorilla of the Milky Way galaxy with the Goa'uld forced to completely revaluate their society.


But would that help the Blood Angels? That is has it been given any detail if IoM ships are powered crafts within the context of the Warp, ie they can propel themselves through it and the currents are only a drag slowing them, or are they more like sailing ships where the currents are what propel the ship?

Le Sigh, once more people utterly underestimate and misunderstand the goa'uld.

Every Jaffa is a goa'uld in waiting every seven years. Every human is a potential host. When the Goa'uld conquered the galaxy they didn't do it with Jaffa, they did it by fielding armies of goa'uld. Every foot solider was born with the knowledge and skill of a master of every field. Every one was born with all of the knowledge to go from the stone age to starships.

If faced with an actual threat, the system lords will stop suppressing the goa'uld population and instead start expanding it.

The goa'uld industrial base? They use slave labor because it amuses them, not because they don't have the ability to do things more efficiently. And even then, Ha'taks are basically grown via advanced nano-tech that turns raw material into finished products.

The goa'uld have their own exterminatus weapons as well, and are fully willing to use them.

The goa'uld are also not a planet bound or planet reliant species. They are overwhelming a space based polity.

They lost in Stargate because of the Replicators. Until RepliCarter ended them, nothing Earth had done had materially affected goa'uld control over the galaxy.

---
The Blood Angels force is a powerful, external, enemy that also has a lot of useful technology. The goa'uld will take them seriously from the start and treat it like a real war, not pest control.

The Blood Angels force could not win a conventional war. They simply lack the numbers or industrial base and can't gain them fast enough to change that situation.

A calm warp though? Well every Blood Angels librarian is now capable of Alpha plus level feats. Warp drives are now entirely risk free and can be used for precision, tactical, warp jumps and controlled time travel. And that is just for starters.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
When the Goa'uld conquered the galaxy they didn't do it with Jaffa,
If I remember the series time line, the Goa'uld basically achieved dominance in the Milky Way after the Ancients were weakened by a plague and left for the Pegasus galaxy, The Asguard withdrew to focus more on their genetic degradation problem, The Nox are the Nox and the Furlings barely seem to exist. If anything the Goa'uld seemed to have lucked into their global position than anything.

Every Jaffa is a goa'uld in waiting every seven years.
Yes but your typical Goa'uld is self-serving Starscream only out for their own advancement. They are absolutely lousy soldiers who few physical advantages, greater strength and durability, are outshined by Space Marines. In comparison the Jaffa are at least reasonably loyal and are willing to die in droves for their respective gods.

Every foot solider was born with the knowledge and skill of a master of every field. Every one was born with all of the knowledge to go from the stone age to starships.
Every Goa'uld does certainly posses the genetic memory of the Queen that birthed it but that doesn't necessarily translate into mastery of that field. Indeed the implication is most Goa'uld tech is cheap, Chinese knockoffs of Ancient and other races technology they stole. The Sarcophagus being a prime example where the Goa'ulds can only make copies with far more limited ability than the Ancient healing device it's based off of.

Honestly it's unclear how much the average Goa'uld understand their technology and how much is simple rot learning via the aforementioned genetic memory. The fact it was SG-1's experience with time travel which Ba'al had to rely on to build his time machine in Continuum despite centuries more time, more familiarity with the technology in question and and over all greater tech base than late 90's Earth suggests they likely don't understand their technology nearly as well as they think they do.

Further it is unlikely in the extreme that the bottleneck to starship production is going to be brainpower. As you mention most Goa'uld tech seems to be fabricated via nano machines or other assemblers so you don't even need skilled labor to slap their stuff together. Rather the limiting factors will be raw materials and assemblers to turn that raw material into a useable end product. Of which one Goa'uld and a bunch of slaves can likely do it swifter and more efficiently than a thousand ego maniancs who all think they should be in charge. It would be like putting a team of Alphas from Brave New World on a project.

The goa'uld industrial base? They use slave labor because it amuses them, not because they don't have the ability to do things more efficiently. And even then, Ha'taks are basically grown via advanced nano-tech that turns raw material into finished products.
I would have to disagree. We've seen the Goa'uld go to war numerous times during the course of the series all long after Ra and any rule of war he might have enforced was long dead. But against Rival System Lords, rogue Goa'ulds with equal power to their combined might or even extragalactic foes like the Asguard or Replicators there's not sign of a superior industry.

And bear in mind the Goa'uld view the Asguard as a real threat to their power. So much so the Asguard have been able to bluff them despite their fleet being occupied fighting the Replicators so the Systems Lords have every incentive to build as massive a fleet as they can to protect their holdings and secure their dominance in the MW. Yet they rely on slaves to dig out by hand everything.

The goa'uld are also not a planet bound or planet reliant species. They are overwhelming a space based polity.
The Goa'uld appear to be a very planet reliant species. Especially for things like starship construction where we repeatedly see the Goa'uld style is to build dirt side. Or resource collection which again always seems to take place in atmosphere in a reasonably earth-like planet. Every System Lord we've gotten a confirmation about has a "Throneworld" which seems to be their primary abode.

They lost in Stargate because of the Replicators. Until RepliCarter ended them, nothing Earth had done had materially affected goa'uld control over the galaxy.
Except RepliCarter didn't end them. What broke the Goa'uld empire was their Jaffa rebellion. If anything RepliCarter strengthened the System Lords since it was driving Jaffa back into their ranks prompting the attack on Dakara to shatter forever the illusion the Goa'ulds were gods.
 

Emperor Tippy

Merchant of Death
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Founder
If I remember the series time line, the Goa'uld basically achieved dominance in the Milky Way after the Ancients were weakened by a plague and left for the Pegasus galaxy, The Asguard withdrew to focus more on their genetic degradation problem, The Nox are the Nox and the Furlings barely seem to exist. If anything the Goa'uld seemed to have lucked into their global position than anything.
The goa'uld "lucked" into it in that the Ancients were no longer around/active. But they fought a war with the Asgard while unable to actually reach the Ida galaxy in any kind of useful time period; and they didn't lose. They fought that war because the Asgard got pissed at them for going on a genocidal war of conquest across the entire Milky Way galaxy.

Their tech base when they started that war was, quite literally, stone age. Ra and his generation are, literally, one generation removed from the goa'uld first taking Unas as hosts.

And you also have to remember their ability to take hosts. A goa'uld jumps into your head? Every thought you have ever had is now part of that goa'uld genetic memory. They know your language, they know how you think, they know every skill you knew. And then they can jump into another host and do the same thing again, and again, and again.

Think about what that means in relation to, say, real life Earth. A Goa'uld shows up and takes a random person as host. They instantly have everything they need to pass for a native. It can go to a university and make its way through people with Doctorates in any, or every, field you care to name. And they can combine all that knowledge.

The goa'uld conquered, and they the goa'uld leadership took steps to ensure their continued dominance and reduce the competition. EVERYTHING shown in the show, that the SGC was exposed to? That was the goa'uld basically at peace.

The goa'uld's primary focus was their internal succession dispute to decide Ra's replacement, and that was a fight conducted under the rules of Goa'uld vs. Goa'uld conflict.

The Blood Angels don't get that consideration. They are a threat to the goa'uld as a whole and would be treated as such.
Yes but your typical Goa'uld is self-serving Starscream only out for their own advancement. They are absolutely lousy soldiers who few physical advantages, greater strength and durability, are outshined by Space Marines. In comparison the Jaffa are at least reasonably loyal and are willing to die in droves for their respective gods.
Except, again, you aren't seeing the "typical" goa'uld when you watch the show. You are seeing the handful that survived the games of goa'uld politics.

You are also overlooking what the Queens are capable of. The Kull Warriors? That is what happens when a goa'uld queen decides to create an army. The Queen can pick and choose what memories to pass along, and can shape the personalities of their offspring to their own desires; see the Tok'ra as another such example.

The mass produced and fielded goa'uld wouldn't be like the leadership caste. They would be the synthesized combat ability of the thousands of worlds that the goa'uld have destroyed over their millennia of conquest. Every single one of them fanatically loyal to the goa'uld cause. Every single one of them with the skill set and life experience to hold any rank from private to supreme commander of a star spanning military. Every single one of them a maser of not just every form of combat but of politics, of science, of intrigue.
And every single 40k individual taken, living or dead so long as their head/body is substantially intact, is another potential host. More, they are sources able to teach the goa'uld how the 40k forces think, act, operate, and their capabilities.
Every Goa'uld does certainly posses the genetic memory of the Queen that birthed it but that doesn't necessarily translate into mastery of that field. Indeed the implication is most Goa'uld tech is cheap, Chinese knockoffs of Ancient and other races technology they stole. The Sarcophagus being a prime example where the Goa'ulds can only make copies with far more limited ability than the Ancient healing device it's based off of.
And Ancient tech blows anything that 40k has shown short of the extreme high end of Necron tech out of the water. It's a tech base that was trans galactic for, literally, millions of years. Being the "cheap Chinese knockoff" of Ancient tech is not an insult.

Honestly it's unclear how much the average Goa'uld understand their technology and how much is simple rot learning via the aforementioned genetic memory. The fact it was SG-1's experience with time travel which Ba'al had to rely on to build his time machine in Continuum despite centuries more time, more familiarity with the technology in question and and over all greater tech base than late 90's Earth suggests they likely don't understand their technology nearly as well as they think they do.
Every goa'uld is able to go from sticks and stones to Ha'Taks. They know every step of that process.

As for the time travel example, I never said that the goa'uld understood the Stargates. Or a lot of other Ancient tech. Fully, at least. The time travel was the result of a freak accident. You had to manually dial a gate (no DHD connected, the safety protocols prevent it) and time that dialing to an appropriate solar flare. That's a rare combination of factors.

Further it is unlikely in the extreme that the bottleneck to starship production is going to be brainpower. As you mention most Goa'uld tech seems to be fabricated via nano machines or other assemblers so you don't even need skilled labor to slap their stuff together. Rather the limiting factors will be raw materials and assemblers to turn that raw material into a useable end product. Of which one Goa'uld and a bunch of slaves can likely do it swifter and more efficiently than a thousand ego maniancs who all think they should be in charge. It would be like putting a team of Alphas from Brave New World on a project.

Not really. The goa'uld have slaves mining raw materials because it amuses them to do so. Not because they lack the ability to automate resource extraction or strip mine worlds. And goa'uld build times are fast. As in under a year to build a Ha'Tak from scratch fast.

Again, basically everything you see of the goa'uld on the show is their form of RTS game and a thing of entertainment. Anubis tossed an asteroid with shit tons of Naq into the Sol system basically just because, and because he wanted to see a pretty super nova when the SGC tried to stop it.

I would have to disagree. We've seen the Goa'uld go to war numerous times during the course of the series all long after Ra and any rule of war he might have enforced was long dead. But against Rival System Lords, rogue Goa'ulds with equal power to their combined might or even extragalactic foes like the Asguard or Replicators there's not sign of a superior industry.
The Goa'uld never want to war with the Asgard on screen, and the Replicators defeated them in - literally - a matter of a week or two.

Goa'uld vs. Goa'uld (even rogue goa'uld) conflict is still governed by the rules that they collectively established. They were, after all, fighting over who got to be in charge of the goa'uld and so none of them had any interest in wrecking things or fundamentally changing the game.

And bear in mind the Goa'uld view the Asguard as a real threat to their power. So much so the Asguard have been able to bluff them despite their fleet being occupied fighting the Replicators so the Systems Lords have every incentive to build as massive a fleet as they can to protect their holdings and secure their dominance in the MW. Yet they rely on slaves to dig out by hand everything.
The goa'uld had already secured the Milky Way galaxy. It was the Asgard who found the previous open war with the goa'uld unwinnable at anything like an acceptable cost. They would have won but in doing so lost the entire Milky Way as the goa'uld turned it into a wasteland. The goa'uld couldn't win the war any time soon thanks to the Asgard having an extra galactic industrial base, but they also weren't losing it.

The Goa'uld appear to be a very planet reliant species. Especially for things like starship construction where we repeatedly see the Goa'uld style is to build dirt side. Or resource collection which again always seems to take place in atmosphere in a reasonably earth-like planet. Every System Lord we've gotten a confirmation about has a "Throneworld" which seems to be their primary abode.
The only Goa'uld throneworld shown on screen was Sokar's. Chulak, for example, was just one of Apophis's Jaffa worlds - not his throne world. Saqqara had that honor. Then you have Soma-Kesh, which had mobile orbital shipyards.

Except RepliCarter didn't end them. What broke the Goa'uld empire was their Jaffa rebellion. If anything RepliCarter strengthened the System Lords since it was driving Jaffa back into their ranks prompting the attack on Dakara to shatter forever the illusion the Goa'ulds were gods.
The Replicators destroyed the near entirety of the Ha'Tak's in the galaxy in a matter of a week or so. And killed the vast majority of active goa'uld at the same time.

The Jaffa Rebellion never actually threatened the goa'uld as a whole or their primary power base. It threatened an army whose only purpose was as slave masters, priests, and as disposable pawns in the ritualized entertainment/conflict that the System Lords indulged in to amuse themselves.
 

Crom's Black Blade

Well-known member
But they fought a war with the Asgard while unable to actually reach the Ida galaxy in any kind of useful time period; and they didn't lose.
Saying the Goa'uld fought a war with the Ida galaxy is like saying the Aztects fought a war with European Spain. There's nothing impressive about the Goa'uld fighting a local war and just happening to win. Further like I said the series establishes it was more due to the Asguard having other priorities. To quote from Fair Game, Stargate season 3,

O'NEILL Apparently we said hello, insulted each other and broke for recess.(To Thor)Can I ask you something? Why did you let the Goa'uld get that much power in the first place? I mean, if you've got the technology…

THOR
We are not proud of the fact that we have been forced to ignore the situation as long as we have. But you must understand, there are other concerns for the Asgard. We have an enemy in our home galaxy that is far worse than the Goa'uld.

So even in the modern era, roughly a year beyond when this "what if" takes place, the Goa'uld empire exists because the Asguard simply don't have the time or resources to fight them. And we can reasonably extrapolate this was case back to the original war since that's the question O'Neill asked and if the Goa'uld had been powerhouses who could win a conventional war Thor would have said so.

Further as I mentioned the Asguard are a threat the Goa'uld take seriously. Even Anubis was hesitant to break the treaty preferring to use subterfuge rather than openly confront them. Considering how egotistical they are as a race means the war must have been brutal from the Goa'uld perspective.

And you also have to remember their ability to take hosts. A goa'uld jumps into your head? Every thought you have ever had is now part of that goa'uld genetic memory. They know your language, they know how you think, they know every skill you knew. And then they can jump into another host and do the same thing again, and again, and again.
No, unless that random Goa'uld creates a harcesis their knowledge isn't added to any genetic memory. A Goa'uld genetic memory is passed on from their Queen and she can choose what, if anything, she passes on. Hence the blank slate Anubis created for his warriors.

Further while a Goa'uld seems to have perfect mastery over a human's memories/skills that isn't necessarily the case for any other race. After all Anubis wouldn't have needed to rely on an Ancient memory device if a random snake could have given him the full contents of Thor's mind in Revelations. And considering Thor managed to use that link and put his own mind into Anubis's mothership suggests putting a snake in one would likely go badly.


The goa'uld's primary focus was their internal succession dispute to decide Ra's replacement, and that was a fight conducted under the rules of Goa'uld vs. Goa'uld conflict.
Even if that was the case, and the idea of Goa'ulds not undermining or weaseling their way out from any binding rule is laughable, the whole internal succession for Ra's replacement was a short-lived thing. Instead almost all of the conflict was from outside threat such as Sokar and Anubis both of whom were renegades who amassed might rivaling the combined power of the System Lords. The latter using Ancient technology in the form of shields or Anubis warriors to give him a clear advantage the System Lords barely could respond against and without Earth and it allies help likely wouldn't have prevailed. Yet we never saw anything but Jaffa in response.

And of course we have the aforementioned Asguard and Replicators who were both serious threats which the Goa'uld reacted by doing the exact same thing they did against Earth.

Except, again, you aren't seeing the "typical" goa'uld when you watch the show. You are seeing the handful that survived the games of goa'uld politics.
No, actually we've seen Goa'ulds who've taken their first host most notably with Tanith. He acts exactly like every System Lord up to abandoning his former master the nano-second it's in his favor. Likely because, thanks to their genetic memories, every Goa'uld is largely a mental clone of their bloodline.

You are also overlooking what the Queens are capable of. The Kull Warriors? That is what happens when a goa'uld queen decides to create an army. The Queen can pick and choose what memories to pass along, and can shape the personalities of their offspring to their own desires; see the Tok'ra as another such example.
Not at all. Like I mentioned earlier I am fully aware of how Goa'uld breeding, and intelligence passing, works. And yes, a Queen can choose to make a brood of blanks. However that was the Queen's only contribution to the Anubis Warrior. The host itself required Ancient tech to bring to life, something no Goa'uld could replicate. I don't believe we were ever given an explicit origin for the armor but considering the former and Anubis's connection with the Ancients it likely is of similar origins. Especially since neither the Tok'Ra nor the System Lords seemed able to counter act it short of back engineering the ancient healing device.

The mass produced and fielded goa'uld wouldn't be like the leadership caste. They would be the synthesized combat ability of the thousands of worlds that the goa'uld have destroyed over their millennia of conquest.
You started this by talking about how every Jaffa is carrying a Goa'uld and how the System Lords would do a mass implantation. Those clearly are not blanks or perfectly loyal.

So any mass produced Goa'uld would be the better part of a decade away from full maturity. Further its unclear if they would have any "combat ability" to draw upon. The Goa'uld SOP appears to be bombard back to the stone age any planet that remotely is capable of offering resistance and then using Jaffa to enslave the survivors. And as mentioned taking a host doesn't guarantee that knowledge is passed on to the wider Goa'uld memory so unless a Queen took a host or had this knowledge relayed to her it's unlikely they would have any to draw upon.


And Ancient tech blows anything that 40k has shown short of the extreme high end of Necron tech out of the water. It's a tech base that was trans galactic for, literally, millions of years. Being the "cheap Chinese knockoff" of Ancient tech is not an insult.
Yes, that's certainly true. Ancient tech makes the Imperium look pants on head retarded in comparison. But Ancient tech also makes the Goa'uld look primitive and stupid. So clearly they haven't "mastered" even their basic tech which is derived from the Ancients

As for the time travel example, I never said that the goa'uld understood the Stargates. Or a lot of other Ancient tech. Fully, at least. The time travel was the result of a freak accident. You had to manually dial a gate (no DHD connected, the safety protocols prevent it) and time that dialing to an appropriate solar flare. That's a rare combination of factors.
I won't deny that humanity figuring it out required a lot of luck but that was due more to hitting the solar flare at the precise moment. To quote from "1969", Stargate season 2,

CARTER
That's the only explanation. We had to have been sent back because of a solar flare.

TEAL'C
Was there not an error in your calculations?

CARTER
I don't think so, Teal'c. But after the Abydos mission, when we couldn't figure out a way to make the Gate work again, I was asked to research alternative applications for the Gate. Including time travel.

O'NEILL
What'd you come up with?

CARTER
Well, just this..
[She puts the soup aside and picks up a stick, drawing in the dirt as she explains.]

CARTER
What if a massive solar flare just happened to occur at the exact moment that we were traveling between Earth and another Stargate?
[Michael and Jenny are standing over by the bus, talking. Overhearing part of what Carter's saying, the two hippies turn and look over at the campfire.]
CARTER
If the wormhole itself was redirected closer to the sun because of the Earth's magnetic field,
(drawing a circle in the dirt)
the increased gravity could slingshot us back to Earth.

DANIEL
Why haven't we tried this before?
CARTER
Because flares are impossible to predict. Light takes several minutes to travel between the Earth and the sun, so by the time a flare of sufficient magnitude has been confirmed, it's already too late.

With faster than light sensors, as the Aschen or Goa'uld have, it actually becomes fairly simple to turn a stargate into a time machine. We even know the Goa'uld have experimented with time travel thanks to T'ealc in "Game Keeper", Stargate season 2, yet haven't made any progress.

Every goa'uld is able to go from sticks and stones to Ha'Taks. They know every step of that process.
Yes, but how much do they actually understand and how much is just Step A then B then C. Basically if all they can do is literally just recreate the same Goa'uld technology, and not innovate or extrapolate, then that's going to hit a point of diminishing returns fairly quick.

Not really. The goa'uld have slaves mining raw materials because it amuses them to do so. Not because they lack the ability to automate resource extraction or strip mine worlds. And goa'uld build times are fast. As in under a year to build a Ha'Tak from scratch fast.
You've indicated this before but I'm unclear what this being based off of. There is nothing in the show that suggests the Goa'uld could meaningfully replace their human labor with automation. The best I could think of off the top of my head is how Tok'Ra bases are grown from Crystals so that could technically mine the resources and leave it untouched but you'd still have the problem it has to be gathered and transported.

And I would be curious where you are getting build times from.

Again, basically everything you see of the goa'uld on the show is their form of RTS game and a thing of entertainment. Anubis tossed an asteroid with shit tons of Naq into the Sol system basically just because, and because he wanted to see a pretty super nova when the SGC tried to stop it.
No, Anubis did it to destroy Earth without provoking the Asguard since it would technically look like natural causes. Indeed the destruction of Earth was such a high priority that Osiris used it as a carrot to get Anubis reinstated as a System Lord if he would destroy Earth as a "renegade" without the official sanction of the Goa'uld before hand.

OSIRIS
How many must die, how many dominions must fall and how can we continue to claim to be Gods if we cannot act like them? The Tau'ri cannot be allowed to triumph again and again.

YU
The treaty with the Asgard protect their planet.

OSIRIS
From the System Lords.

YU
Who must enforce the treaty upon all Goa'uld.

OSIRIS
But not from one who's been dead for a thousand years.

YU
What do you propose?

OSIRIS
Accept my vote on behalf of Anubis and before he resumes his position amongst you, he will destroy Earth.

CARTER
Sir, the asteroid's core is composed almost entirely of Naquadah.
O'NEILL
(resigned)
Of course it is.

CARTER
It makes up about forty-five percent of the total mass.

DANIEL
Of course it does.

TEAL'C
Naquadah does not occur naturally in this solar system.

CARTER
Which is why I never even thought to look for it. Sir, this whole thing must have been a Goa'uld setup.

DANIEL
…to circumvent the Protected Planets Treaty with the Asgard. It's almost unthinkable.

O'NEILL
(to Daniel)
What?

CARTER
The Goa'uld brought the asteroid here and set it on a collision course to make it look like a natural disaster.

DANIEL
And they knew the only way we could stop it would be with a nuke.

So this is not a RTS game. The Goa'uld are not dickering around distracted by other issues. Dealing with Earth and the Asguard *are* their high priorities.

Goa'uld vs. Goa'uld (even rogue goa'uld) conflict is still governed by the rules that they collectively established. They were, after all, fighting over who got to be in charge of the goa'uld and so none of them had any interest in wrecking things or fundamentally changing the game.
Except there's nothing to indicate they are holding themselves back. They fight Anubis, who is clearly not playing by the same rule book, exactly the same as they fight Earth and the Asguard. All three were a threat to the Goa'uld power base either militarily in the case of the Asguard or Anubis or picking off key targets and fermenting rebellion in the case of Earth.

And you can't even use the excuse they were distracted by an internal civil war because that largely vanishes by season 5 and the Goa'uld become almost completely united behind a singular System Lord from that point forward against outside threats.

The only Goa'uld throneworld shown on screen was Sokar's. Chulak, for example, was just one of Apophis's Jaffa worlds - not his throne world. Saqqara had that honor. Then you have Soma-Kesh, which had mobile orbital shipyards.
Soma-Kesh appears to be from an RPG sourcebook not the series and orbital construction would contradict what we see in actual episodes. While Saqqara appears to be from a novel making it dubious canoncity.

Further what does any of the above have to do with the fact Goa'ulds spend most of their time planet side?

The Replicators destroyed the near entirety of the Ha'Tak's in the galaxy in a matter of a week or so. And killed the vast majority of active goa'uld at the same time.
Per Jacob the Goa'uld would be wiped out in a matter of weeks. We are informed Baal was sacrificing resources to protect his territory through I don't believe we were given any hard numbers. Further I can't find any reference in the episodes Reckoning that it was the Replicators that broke the power base of the Goa'uld and the importance placed upon taking Dakara and dispelling the illusion that the Goa'uld were gods to Jaffa points in the opposite direction. Further I did find this from season 9's Avalon.

DANIEL
So, where'd you get this?

VALA
The Jaffa may have won their freedom, but there's still more than a few Goa'uld out there. Most of them have lost their dynasties, though, and they're either on the run or in hiding.

DANIEL
Yeah, no doubt plotting some means of regaining their power.

VALA
Yes, and in the meantime, they are having a lot of trouble maintaining the lifestyle to which they've grown so accustomed over the last 5,000 years or so. As such, there are a number of rather interesting artifacts currently on the market.

Vala connects the Goa'uld lose of power not with the Replicators but with the Jaffa winning their freedom. So where is it said that the Replicators caused their downfall? What Episode?
 

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