ISOT Blood Angels Legion in Star Trek.

[Crom's Black Blade]

but you fail, somebody who is into shit is not the same as someone who is aware of the existence of a septic pit close by.

It strikes me as an argument of needlessly bad faith to assume negative connotations on someone for merely being more knowledgeable on a subject than one's self. Further it doesn't really address the argument.

You alleged Picard, Discovery, presumably Prodigies and possibly, since they are certainly as dumb as the rest of NuTrek, even the Rebooted Trek movies are obscure. So obscure it is unrealistic to expect the participants of a Sci-Fi versus forum to remotely be aware of its existence. That to be aware of it requires for you to be obsessed with Trek .Which you seem to use in a pejorative sense rather than purely as a descriptor.

You are clearly aware of Picard/Discovery and, per your statements, have seen more of it than I have since the last NuTrek I watched was the 2009's reboot. In light of the above I find it incredulous that NuTrek is obscure to you.

More broadly my question was not to insult you, after all I would hardly consider being obsessed with Trek a pejorative, but rather to highlight a flawed line of reasoning on your part. That rather than "obscure" it would likely be accurate to say a show like Picard is "unpopular" and thus few are particularly interested in the universe it depicts. Ironically Star Trek Online would likely be more accurately described as "obscure" yet it is not, to my knowledge, nearly as bad as "Bad Robot" again indicating that "quality" and "general awareness" are not necessary synonyms.

 

[Agent23]

You are clearly aware of Picard/Discovery and, per your statements, have seen more of it than I have since the last NuTrek I watched was the 2009's reboot. In light of the above I find it incredulous that NuTrek is obscure to you.

You are clearly spamming, no one likes any of that shit, ergo no one will care for it in vs debates or bring it up.Your post is whataboutism.

 

[Agent23]

You laugh now but Amazon is about to wokefy 40K on TV. And you will be crying soon enough.

After the 1 bn flop of Piercings of Power and the worsening situation for Amazon I kinda doubt they will be receiving the same levels of funding and I am pretty sure that a lot of their projects will be canned indefinitely.

Even if they pull a one season disaster I won't care, since the codices/books/games will have priority over overpriced garbage fanfiction.

I will certainly get a nice laugh out of DoomCock, Flash, JSG, Clownfish, RGE, the Critical Drinker and Arch MST3K-ing it up the wazoo.

I hope it provides as much entertainment as TTS.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

You are clearly spamming, no one likes any of that shit, ergo no one will care for it in vs debates or bring it up.Your post is whataboutism.

I'm not sure how I could be "spamming" by responding to a comment of yours directed at me. I could understand saying this was a thread derail, through I was originally responding to your post on the subject so you are likely as guilty as I on that subject, further "Whataboutism" is the attempt to excuse negative behavior for one party by bringing up an unrelated example of bad behavior of another in attempt to excuse/justify/ect the former. I do not see how that is applicable in this discussion.

I take it you have conceded your original position that NuTrek is "obscure" for my position, articulated in my previous post, that it is merely unpopular?

 

[Agent23]

I'm not sure how I could be "spamming" by responding to a comment of yours directed at me.

Responding to a nonsense argument you threw at me...

I could understand saying this was a thread derail, through I was originally responding to your post on the subject so you are likely as guilty as I on that subject, further "Whataboutism" is the attempt to excuse negative behavior for one party by bringing up an unrelated example of bad behavior of another in attempt to excuse/justify/ect the former. I do not see how that is applicable in this discussion.

My point stands, most people do not give a crap about all the BR spinoffs or Trek Online, or the Temporal civil war.To any remaining fans they are the crappy noise interfering with the signal.

I take it you have conceded your original position that NuTrek is "obscure" for my position, articulated in my previous post, that it is merely unpopular?

Yeah, you need to learn cause and effect.

A few things are obscure and/or unpopular because they are garbage, you know, like Pukeard, the reboots, and STD.
Similarly aspects of somewhat more popular shows are obscure and unused either because they are vague or because they are stupid, like the whole temporal cold war bullcrap.

Oh, lol, the original question I was answering got answered again, in the same way and by the same person.

 

[Jormungandr]

Personally I'd be curious if the Blood Angels view Earth as Terra or just "Earth", yet another world the human inhabitance have, in their arrogance, given to an unrelated rock. From what I remember no one outside of the God-Emperor remotely remembers what a non-polluted, overly industrialized Earth even look like so they may not even realize its the essentially same Earth of old that The Emperor sprang from in their own history.

Assuming they don't just declare a crusade to retake "Terra", with 900 ships the Blood Angels will cleave a nice sized fiefdom from the Romulan Star Empire and Federation as the Borg suddenly become a distant 2nd on the Federation's priority list. Even an Escort will take a fleet of ships to whittle down and just two short years after the Wolf 359 incident Starfleet is still too thinly spread out/under equipped which is going to be disastrous in the short-run as the Federation and Romulans get bloodied something fierce for the first few months.

In this timeline rather than being mothballed until the discovery of the Dominion, I expect the Defiant class will be rushed into production teething problems and all and something not unlike the Akira-class may see the light of day sooner. Short-term I would expect Starfleet to gut their torpedoes of everything they can and just filled to the brim with as much M/AM as they can.

On the geo-political front I could honestly see Gowron, who always was a self-serving opportunist, trying to pull a Putin and rebuild the former glory of the Great Klingon Empire (tm) with the other two of the "Big Three" of the Alpha/Beta Quadrant being weakened and distracted so using a carefully constructed neutrality for all sides and absorbing the non-human populated table scraps left behind by the Blood Angels. Rattling sabers at the Federation for old grievances, real or imagined, while reminding them they can hardly afford a second front.

I could also see the Cardassians winning big in this timeline. With the Federation so stressed for manpower and time, there would be little stopping Cardassia from reoccupying Bajor or a demilitarized zone the Federation no longer has the capability to enforce. It wouldn't even be surprising if the Federation encourages this to an extent as a "stabilizing" measure to region

Actually, and outside of this thread's scope, I do wonder how a Space Marine chapter would react if they were to encounter a "virgin" (by the Imperium's standards, anyway) Earth/ancient Terra, and they could conclusively identify it as being the past analogue of the Holy Terra they all knew.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Responding to a nonsense argument you threw at me...

Hardly nonsense and was made in response to your statements directed at me in a chain going back to me responding to your original statement.

So I must ask, how are you defining "Spamming"?

My point stands, most people do not give a crap about all the BR spinoffs or Trek Online, or the Temporal civil war.To any remaining fans they are the crappy noise interfering with the signal.

Actually I'm not sure Star Trek Online is poorly received as opposed to just being obscure and in a similar but inverted case while the Temporal Cold War is certainly poorly received I'm not really sure it's obscure least of all to Trek fans.

Similarly the BR spinoffs have certainly been poorly received but that's generally because the usual demographic Trek is meant to appeal too is aware of them and dislikes them rather than being oblivious to them.

A few things are obscure and/or unpopular because they are garbage, you know, like Pukeard, the reboots, and STD.

I've noticed you've now changed your argument and are now not treating "obscure" and "unpopular" as synonyms which is, again, closer to my position than your original assertion where shows like "Picard" were obscure because they were unpopular/bad. As such we are, broadly, in agreement so I'm a little unclear as to what your arguing for at this point.

 

[Agent23]

Hardly nonsense and was made in response to your statements directed at me in a chain going back to me responding to your original statement.

So I must ask, how are you defining "Spamming"?


Actually I'm not sure Star Trek Online is poorly received as opposed to just being obscure and in a similar but inverted case while the Temporal Cold War is certainly poorly received I'm not really sure it's obscure least of all to Trek fans.

Similarly the BR spinoffs have certainly been poorly received but that's generally because the usual demographic Trek is meant to appeal too is aware of them and dislikes them rather than being oblivious to them.


I've noticed you've now changed your argument and are now not treating "obscure" and "unpopular" as synonyms which is, again, closer to my position than your original assertion where shows like "Picard" were obscure because they were unpopular/bad. As such we are, broadly, in agreement so I'm a little unclear as to what your arguing for at this point.

More non-argument spam.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

Actually, and outside of this thread's scope, I do wonder how a Space Marine chapter would react if they were to encounter a "virgin" (by the Imperium's standards, anyway) Earth/ancient Terra, and they could conclusively identify it as being the past analogue of the Holy Terra they all knew.

I imagine they'd occupy it and start searching for the God-Emperor in disguise living among the Earth population. Through how they'd react to not finding him, since he presumably doesn't exist on Trek Earth, is anyone's guess of course.

 

[ATP]

I imagine they'd occupy it and start searching for the God-Emperor in disguise living among the Earth population. Through how they'd react to not finding him, since he presumably doesn't exist on Trek Earth, is anyone's guess of course.

If Federation let them.They had plenty of weapons to kill in brutal way,only decided not to use it.Imagine teleports used not to move dudes,but teleport bricks into Astartes heads,for example.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

If Federation let them.They had plenty of weapons to kill in brutal way,only decided not to use it.Imagine teleports used not to move dudes,but teleport bricks into Astartes heads,for example.

Between personal forcefields, phasers, jet boots and transporters the Federation potentially could probably create some poor man's Mobile Infantry, book version, but they simply don't utilize their technology that way. Ground combat is simply a distant secondary concern for them while it's almost the reverse for the Marines. They live for this kind of fighting.

 

[Jormungandr]

Between personal forcefields, phasers, jet boots and transporters the Federation potentially could probably create some poor man's Mobile Infantry, book version, but they simply don't utilize their technology that way. Ground combat is simply a distant secondary concern for them while it's almost the reverse for the Marines. They live for this kind of fighting.

The Federation got a harsh reality check with at first Wolf 359 and then the Dominion War.

(Earth) Starfleet, and later the (then founded) Federation as a whole, were quite militant since its/their founding, but sometime after Kirk they went all pacifist and "holier than thou" (which, to be fair, even their multipurpose and science vessels did match up with another power's warships, like the Cardassian Union's Galor-class).

Then the Borg. Then the Dominion.

To crib a Doctor Who quote: "that's when they remembered they had teeth".

Even if they don't fully implement their technology to the fullest, as in your post, they still began to remilitarize.

The Defiant-class and the Sovereign-class were abrupt 180's to normal Starfleet ships, and they then set the precedent for the future.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Between personal forcefields, phasers, jet boots and transporters the Federation potentially could probably create some poor man's Mobile Infantry, book version, but they simply don't utilize their technology that way. Ground combat is simply a distant secondary concern for them while it's almost the reverse for the Marines. They live for this kind of fighting.

Strategically speaking it's the right decision. Their two biggest rivals, the Klingons and Romulans, are physically much stronger than most Federation citizens and loads of aliens have some one-off power or another that would prove a complete OCP in combat. However, increased physical strength or making people's heads explode by screaming at them don't actually do anything for space combat. Meanwhile, the Federation's gimmick is being the galaxy's biggest science nerds. Making spaceship combat their focus plays to their strengths and their enemy's weaknesses.

 

[ATP]

Between personal forcefields, phasers, jet boots and transporters the Federation potentially could probably create some poor man's Mobile Infantry, book version, but they simply don't utilize their technology that way. Ground combat is simply a distant secondary concern for them while it's almost the reverse for the Marines. They live for this kind of fighting.

They would have no choice after facing Marines.

Strategically speaking it's the right decision. Their two biggest rivals, the Klingons and Romulans, are physically much stronger than most Federation citizens and loads of aliens have some one-off power or another that would prove a complete OCP in combat. However, increased physical strength or making people's heads explode by screaming at them don't actually do anything for space combat. Meanwhile, the Federation's gimmick is being the galaxy's biggest science nerds. Making spaceship combat their focus plays to their strengths and their enemy's weaknesses.

Still should have made better infrantry.Or,to be precise - dudes which would coordinate teleporting shit into their enemies.

 

[Crom's Black Blade]

They would have no choice after facing Marines.

Perhaps but they are going to have a steep learning curve until they do so.

Strategically speaking it's the right decision. Their two biggest rivals, the Klingons and Romulans, are physically much stronger than most Federation citizens and loads of aliens have some one-off power or another that would prove a complete OCP in combat. However, increased physical strength or making people's heads explode by screaming at them don't actually do anything for space combat. Meanwhile, the Federation's gimmick is being the galaxy's biggest science nerds. Making spaceship combat their focus plays to their strengths and their enemy's weaknesses.

Oh I definitely agree space combat should have priority. End of the day, a superior naval force will allow the Federation to dictate when and where engagements can happen while the greatest ground army in the world can't do anything if the void is firmly under the enemy's control.

I'd even go as far to say that the basic idea we see in Starfleet of ground forces being more a combo of paratroopers and special forces actually makes a lot of internal sense considering any random starship can lay down some very precise orbital fire making larger army formations as likely to be a liability as an asset.

I suppose I just feel like the Federation is prosperous enough, and faced threats like the Klingons who have a strong preference for ground fighting, it should be able to pursue both to a greater extent than it does while instead it feels bit more like WWII era Japan where the Navy gets everything and the Army just gets whatever scraps that are left.

The Federation got a harsh reality check with at first Wolf 359 and then the Dominion War.

I would agree. The TNG era was almost certainly a result of them winning their Cold War with the Klingons while the other big power the Romulans had gone into another isolationist phase so for sixty, seventy, eighty years the Federation was the unquestioned Hyperpower which I think deluded them into thinking they were "on the right side of history" with the obvious complacencies that engendered.

 

[ATP]

Perhaps but they are going to have a steep learning curve until they do so.


Oh I definitely agree space combat should have priority. End of the day, a superior naval force will allow the Federation to dictate when and where engagements can happen while the greatest ground army in the world can't do anything if the void is firmly under the enemy's control.

I'd even go as far to say that the basic idea we see in Starfleet of ground forces being more a combo of paratroopers and special forces actually makes a lot of internal sense considering any random starship can lay down some very precise orbital fire making larger army formations as likely to be a liability as an asset.

I suppose I just feel like the Federation is prosperous enough, and faced threats like the Klingons who have a strong preference for ground fighting, it should be able to pursue both to a greater extent than it does while instead it feels bit more like WWII era Japan where the Navy gets everything and the Army just gets whatever scraps that are left.


I would agree. The TNG era was almost certainly a result of them winning their Cold War with the Klingons while the other big power the Romulans had gone into another isolationist phase so for sixty, seventy, eighty years the Federation was the unquestioned Hyperpower which I think deluded them into thinking they were "on the right side of history" with the obvious complacencies that engendered.

Yes,thanks to Bloody Angels Federation learning would be rather bloody!
But - they would learn and survive.
I always laughed and crossover when IoM stomp ST easily.It would be crippling conflict for them,and Federation could still survive.

P.S Merry Christmas !