America First Caucus Founded

[DocSolarisReich]

indentured servants were voluntary contracts made to be a slave temporarily in exchange for passage to the new world and weren’t Irish exclusive.

@ReggieLedoux ”Albanians have foreign religion and customs and I do not wish to see them in this nation” also “Albanians are white” these aren’t mutually exclusive things, and all the “Irish weren’t white” literature I see just says “well Irish were discriminated against so they weren’t seen as white”. You could see both as white and still discriminate lol. All of this is mostly nonsense made up to make it seem like race isn’t real or it’s just a social construct.

Even the varying use of the term ‘race’ to refer to specific nations, ethnic groups, and continental meta groups depending on context is used by ‘anti-racists’ to attack ‘race’ as a concept. As if words can’t have multiple meanings or change common usage overtime while retaining antique uses.

But strangely, this only ever used to attack the ‘white’, ‘Indo-European’, ‘Caucusoid’ categories; never ‘yellow’ or ‘black’.

 

[FriedCFour]

No, but "The Irish are subhuman animals and we'd be better off without them" isn't exactly seeing them as part of the same ethnic group or race. Or species.

I’m sure some people did that. I don’t think it’s something that was legally enshrined or the majority opinion. Also, you could absolutely see a group as subhuman animals that we shouldn’t have in this nation, but acknowledge they are a part of the same broader racial category. Then you have ethnic categories after that, which is where you would say they are different.

Look at the Potato Famine and Trevalyn's deliberate and malicious response to it, enough to quite reasonably call it a genocide. And I mean, just cause something is a social construct doesn't mean it's false or anything. Money is a social construct made by people, I still go to work from fucking 7:30 till 17:00.

Yeah but race is real because it’s genetic and exists empirically. Because you can see it with your eyes, because we can literally take a tiny bit of your blood and trace back exactly what ethnic groups you descend from and what race you are. Because we can take a ten thousand year old skeleton and be reasonably certain of what this person looked like physically. And again, you can genocide people of the same broader race and then discriminate against them as a different ethnic group and religious group.

 

[LindyAF]

Just because the marked it on the census doesn't mean they were seen that way by the WASPs and certain Brit/Scot influenced groups.

The Irish were seen as expendable, and actually were sold as 'indentured servants' in a lot of the English speaking world, not just the US, or forced into wage-slavery in company towns alongside blacks.

I mean, for a long time black slaves sold for a higher price than Irish ones, who were mostly trying to escape the potato famine and British oppression. TheIrish of the day often were weaker than some African soldier who was on the losing side of a battle and got sold into slavery by the victors, or some poor sod who was born on a plantation and worked the fields his whole life.

The whole 'white identity' only came into existence to support the laws surrounding slavery in the US, while trying to erase the real differences between different ethnic backgrounds coming out of the nations that were settling the US.

The slavers wanted the issue to be seen as a 'all white person issue' to force the North's laws to abide their bullshit. The slavers wanted the issue to revolve around phenotype/skin pigmentation based bullshit to justify keeping slaves based on race and the 'One Drop Rule' laws/customs. The slavers wanted the poor Irish servants to feel like the blacks were the enemy, not their brothers in servitude and potential allies against the ruling plantation class.

I'm not saying that they faced no anti-Irish sentiment, or that WASPs didn't consider themselves different from the Irish. What @ReggieLedoux suggested was that the Irish weren't considered White for the purposes of the Naturalization Act of 1790. I have seen no evidence they were ever not legally considered White, in the context of American law during a time where White was a legal category or otherwise a government-defined category.

Again, I think the idea that "White" came about as a concept only in the context of the question of slavery is put paid by legislation which predates any serious question over slavery which uses "White" as a legal term that's so obvious it does not need to be defined (Naturalization Acts of 1790 and 1795 at least). Additionally, White ethnic groups still faced negative sentiment even significant negative sentiment for decades after the question of slavery- in particular, Eastern Europeans and Italians faced negative sentiment well after would be suggested by the notion that "White" as a category was invented for the purposes of a common front on the issue of slavery.

 

[Cherico]

Hispanics are going to wake up one day and find out their now white.

Its already starting to happen.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Hispanics are going to wake up one day and find out their now white.

Its already starting to happen.

'Hispanic' is a linguistic category that includes multiple racial castes. Criollos and Castizos are not Mestizos and Indios.

 

[strunkenwhite]

It was possible for the Irish to immigrate legally, and I was referring to the immigration act of 1790 and the few updates that came after and kept it mostly the same

There was no Immigration Act of 1790.

And it would be more accurate to say that there was essentially no legal restriction on their ability to immigrate to the United States. Wikipedia suggests that no national immigration restrictions were passed before 1875 (and those didn't target the Irish), as well as that state immigration laws only existed after the Civil War.

If A and B do similar activities, but the activity is legal for A and illegal for B, it's pretty strange to me that you should praise A for his law-abiding nature in contrast to B's lawbreaking. (Yet this is not a defense of lawbreaking.)

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

Hispanics are going to wake up one day and find out their now white.

Its already starting to happen.

Unlikely to happen as long as they stay good little obdient demorat-voters.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

There was no Immigration Act of 1790.

Because it was called the 'Naturalization Act'.

The Naturalization Act of 1790 (1 Stat. 103, enacted March 26, 1790 ) was a law of the United States Congress that set the first uniform rules for the granting of United States citizenship by naturalization. The law limited naturalization to "free white person ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, slaves, free blacks and later Asians, although free blacks were allowed citizenship at the state level in a number of states.

The Act was modelled on the Plantation Act 1740 with respect to time, oath of allegiance, process of swearing before a judge, etc.[1][2]

Naturalization Act of 1790 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ShieldWife]

The Founding Fathers considered Irish to be white. In fact, there were a number of Irish Founding Fathers or people who moved within their circles.

 

[Bear Ribs]

The Founding Fathers considered Irish to be white. In fact, there were a number of Irish Founding Fathers or people who moved within their circles.

Four Founding Fathers that I'm aware of:

James McHenry
Pierce Butler
Thomas Fitzsimons
and William Paterson

 

[Cherico]

Unlikely to happen as long as they stay good little obdient demorat-voters.

It will happen even if they do because the revolution is always hungry for class enemies to devour and no matter what you do they will come for you.

 

[FriedCFour]

There was no Immigration Act of 1790

Misremembered the name of it. Naturalization Act of 1790. Irish were allowed to become citizens. Only whites could become citizens. Ergo, Irish were considered white.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Hispanics aren’t right wing immigrants. No, it’s by stopping immigration lol. What you are arguing is the same thing establishment Republicans argued for decades and have been wrong on for decades “Hispanics are a naturally conservative population” yeah except they don’t vote that way.

No central Americans aren't right wing immigrants. Dominicans, Cuban and South Americans are.

Or did you miss the Dominicans in Chicago going into armed conflict with BLM and telling all Latinos that if they didn't join them in expelling the commies they would be slaughtered for being race traitors?

You shouldn't be quoting Richard Spencer since he is a coal burning leftist plant Fried. Especially when the loudest voice of the close the borders moment is a little Fillipino soccer mom named Michelle.

Tldr: the only salvation. Of the far right lies in a rainbow coalition and you can ignore it all you want but whites don't have the balls to do what needs to be done anymore. Most are self hating cucks.

We do though.

 

[FriedCFour]

You shouldn't be quoting Richard Spencer since he is a coal burning leftist plant Fried. Especially when the loudest voice of the close the borders moment is a little Fillipino soccer mom named Michelle.

I’m not quoting Spencer and Michelle is correct.

Tldr: the only salvation. Of the far right lies in a rainbow coalition and you can ignore it all you want but whites don't have the balls to do what needs to be done anymore. Most are self hating cucks.

yeah and also don’t bring in more people who vote left which is all immigrants since 1965 excepting Cubans and the Vietnamese.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Because it was called the 'Naturalization Act'.

Misremembered the name of it. Naturalization Act of 1790. Irish were allowed to become citizens. Only whites could become citizens. Ergo, Irish were considered white.

Sure, but the name being "Naturalization" and not "Immigration" points to the fact that this act did not touch on immigration, which is what I was arguing:

It took many decades for that to happen, and in the last 2 decades hispanics have gone more towards blue voting, not less. There's also the fact that so many of them have come into the country illegally, whereas the Italians and the Irish didn't.

Was it even possible for the Irish to immigrate illegally?

Yes. I think the white only immigration laws passed by our founding fathers were still in place at the time so they could come here and be citizens.

Naturalization is not what I was questioning, although it is generally a prerequisite to immigrants voting.

 

[FriedCFour]

Naturalization is not what I was questioning, although it is generally a prerequisite to immigrants voting.

Naturalization is a part of immigration though. The Irish could both legally immigrate here and after a few years of residency, good character and swearing an oath would be able to gain citizenship.

 

[FriedCFour]

Also it should be said that the narrative that Bacle put forward on race and whiteness is like what Howard Zinn would say and is completely Marxist revisionist take on the matter. “Race was created by the bourgeois in order to divide proletariat brothers.” Is extremely popular with communist historians and is an entirely Marxist dialectical view of the events.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I’m not quoting Spencer and Michelle is correct.

So you agree with her that right wing immigrants should be let in?

yeah and also don’t bring in more people who vote left which is all immigrants since 1965 excepting Cubans and the Vietnamese.

You don't have current stats then because even freaking Africans vote right more frequently then white European immigrants and white Americans do.

Conservativism in America committed suicide when it had to be saved from Jimmy Carter by a former Union boss. It's been ambling around like a zombie ever since and it finally crumbled to dust on January the sixth.

You guys need a nationalist, cultural supremacist right and only we know how to do that.

Also it should be said that the narrative that Bacle put forward on race and whiteness is like what Howard Zinn would say and is completely Marxist revisionist take on the matter. “Race was created by the bourgeois in order to divide proletariat brothers.” Is extremely popular with communist historians and is an entirely Marxist dialectical view of the events.

It also ignores 10,000 years of written history.

Even Egyptians understood what race was.

 

[DocSolarisReich]

Sure, but the name being "Naturalization" and not "Immigration" points to the fact that this act did not touch on immigration, which is what I was arguing:

Stop being deliberately dense, no one cares about temporary visitors who will never formally be your peer. Immigration and Naturalization are parts of whole, see 'Immigration and Naturalization Services' What immigration restrictionists today are talking about is exactly what the act of 1790 is talking about.

Or did you miss the Dominicans in Chicago going into armed conflict with BLM and telling all Latinos that if they didn't join them in expelling the commies they would be slaughtered for being race traitors?

Hostility to BLM and in group loyalty during intra-ethnic conflict does not necessarily imply right wing in the full sense of the term, however I will admit the DR and Cubans do tend be based generally in my anecdotal experience. However South America is a big place, and I wouldn't tend to agree that say Peruvians and Argentinians are generally as dexterous as say Chileans and Columbians, if that makes sense...

 

[FriedCFour]

So you agree with her that right wing immigrants should be let in?

Michelle is for an immigration moratorium. The only right wing immigrants are the political refugees of communist regimes, which is who I think should be let in if we let in anyone. It’s certainly not just Hispanics lol and it isn’t even Cubans anymore. We already have all the Cubans who fled communism and were worthwhile to take, we got them in the 1960s and 1970s. Same with the Vietnamese.

You don't have current stats then because even freaking Africans vote right more frequently then white European immigrants and white Americans do.

false lol. The current stats don’t show that at all. White Americans are the number one voting Demographic for the right. Cubans and Vietnamese, the strongest right wing new immigrant voting block are even less so than White Americans.