Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

[49ersfootball]

Here's some scenarios:
1.) New Orleans Saints win their 2nd Super Bowl Championship in 2011 the year before Bountygate explodes.

2.) San Francisco 49ers three-peat by winning the 1990 Super Bowl Championship.

3.) San Antonio Spurs win back-to-back NBA Championships in 2013 & 2014. Duncan retires with 6 NBA Championships.

 

[ATP]

Henry VIII is still married to Catherine of Aragon, but she's having trouble airing a son, which led to the whole marital rinse and repeat process.

A Reconquista into North Africa might be in the cards as well.

Savonarola might ironically enough, be the one that actually cleans out the rotten structures that had affected Catholicism as a whole. His death killed off the reforms that were needed, which his spiritual successors picked it up and eventually kick started the Protestant Reformation.

So,no war with England,but everything else possible.I hope,that they would help Hungary and kick ottoman asses.
Protestants would arise no matter what kind of reforms would be made,becouse german princes really wonted monks moneys,and position as super-mini popes was nice,too.

Thanks to Deformation,every ruler become stronger pope - becouse popes could not change teaching,only develop it,when protestant Prince could everything.

 

[49ersfootball]

Alternate Scenarios:
1.) Ford wins reelection in 1976 by flipping WI, OH.
2.) Ramifications of Ford winning reelection.
3.) Does the Panama Canal go chaotic ?

 

[Zyobot]

'2020 Israel To 1940'.

Say it happens on January 1st of both years, which is early enough to preclude Covid from being a problem.

 

[Buba]

Israel, before fuel and food and spare parts run out, goes on a war crimes spree nuking German cities?

I am not certain that Israel is sustainable. It has to import food (well, feed for animals), fuels, raw materials for industry. Now it has no export markets, the supply chains are gone, "monopoly money", no US aid ...

First few weeks I imagine a "state of war" introduced, mobilsation, rationing, etc., living off stockpiles. It are the next few years which will be "exciting" ... but, like I said, I do not imagine WWII to last long.

Maybe ethnic cleansing, kicking out all Moslems and replacing them with pisspoor Jews from Centeal and Eastern Europe, who are plentiful and ready to work for low wages? Or would the UT "circle the wagons" as not to be swamped by DT Jews? Or would the economic collapse lead to Israel blackmailing the world to feed it?

There will be a state of agitation in the Moslem world, I imagine . Not because of Israel per se, but the general news on how the Arab and Islamic world was faring in 2020 ...

 

[ATP]

'2020 Israel To 1940'.

Say it happens on January 1st of both years, which is early enough to preclude Covid from being a problem.

1.1940 - Germany are nuked,Izrael fall thanks to economy few years later,maybe nuking more countries before.
Result - soviet Europa,probably with Izrael technology.
Unless jews remember that Sralin planned to purge them and nuke Moscov,too before they collapse.

Catholic Church - pope knew about Vaticanum II and Bergolio,and purge all masons and homosexuual priests.

2. 2020 - no Izrael,peace om Middle East,USA do not need to pay them anymore and have more money.Which Biden would waste anyway,becouse deep state fake elections without Izrael,too.

Middle East - Egypt ,Syria,Jordania could fight over who take over.
Rest of world - notching change.

 

[bullethead]

AUKUS 1950s:

Instead of the US developing nuclear submarines by itself, with the UK lagging behind and having to rely on buying a US reactor, the US and UK cooperate on the nuclear submarine program from the beginning. The UK expands the program to cover Australia to help reduce the amount of territory their boats have to cover, and to get experience designing subs that can handle a broader range of environments.

 

[49ersfootball]

AUKUS 1950s:

Instead of the US developing nuclear submarines by itself, with the UK lagging behind and having to rely on buying a US reactor, the US and UK cooperate on the nuclear submarine program from the beginning. The UK expands the program to cover Australia to help reduce the amount of territory their boats have to cover, and to get experience designing subs that can handle a broader range of environments.

What about New Zealand ?

 

[Skallagrim]

'2020 Israel To 1940'.

Say it happens on January 1st of both years, which is early enough to preclude Covid from being a problem.

Israel, before fuel and food and spare parts run out, goes on a war crimes spree nuking German cities?

I am not certain that Israel is sustainable. It has to import food (well, feed for animals), fuels, raw materials for industry. Now it has no export markets, the supply chains are gone, "monopoly money", no US aid ...

First few weeks I imagine a "state of war" introduced, mobilsation, rationing, etc., living off stockpiles. It are the next few years which will be "exciting" ... but, like I said, I do not imagine WWII to last long.

Maybe ethnic cleansing, kicking out all Moslems and replacing them with pisspoor Jews from Centeal and Eastern Europe, who are plentiful and ready to work for low wages? Or would the UT "circle the wagons" as not to be swamped by DT Jews? Or would the economic collapse lead to Israel blackmailing the world to feed it?

There will be a state of agitation in the Moslem world, I imagine . Not because of Israel per se, but the general news on how the Arab and Islamic world was faring in 2020 ...

Surviving will be a lot easier than imagined. There'll be a major crunch, and various modern-day luxuries will not be able to be retained; but Israel actively tries to be decently self-reliant when it comes to its existential needs. In any case, it can easily 'compensate' any major shortfalls by using its vast military advantage to go a-conquering. (The lack of modern mass media helps them to get away with it.)

In this scenario, there's no longer a 'concerned international community' to worry about. The Israeli right (and even elements of its left) can take the gloves off: put the soft cosmopolitan-type lefty whiners in internment camps, and fully exterminate the Palestinians. This to be done near-concurrently with an overwhelming strike against all neighbouring powers, essentially realising "Greater Israel", stretching to cover all the (OTL) Arab lands from the Nile Delta to the Tigris. Arabs to be expelled from (or, if more convenient, exterminated throughout) this area.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure a nuclear decapitation strike (which doubles as a warning) against Germany. "Release all Jews from your camps now, and send us your unconditional surrender. You have 24 hours. We have hundreds more of these atomic city-killers. Obey or perish." (They don't really have hundreds-- but who could know?)

After the inevtable Geman surrender (or collapse, following more nuclear strikes), Israel should invite Jews from all ovr to settle in Greater Israel, so that its vast area can be populated. Since the 1940 Jews are by and large far more conservative, compared to 2020 people, this gives a right-wing regime more support for its typical policies. In the direct wake of German anti-Jewish policies -- and with Super Israel From The Future as the saviour of all Jews -- the regime will have lots of happy supporters.

Indeed, many gentiles all over the planet will be happy. Few care about Arabs, and many will be glad to see Jews leave for "their own damn Jew country". (Since most of the Holocaust never happens here, more people will remain 'casually' anti-semitic in the West.)

A big problem for Britain and France will be that Israel has just ended all their designs in the Near East... AND has annexed the Suez. But Israel can afford to give zero fucks, since they have nukes and super-future-tech.

Over the subsequent years and decades, Israel can fully rebuild its 2020 standards of living and tech from this situation. It'll be hard, but it'll work, and they can remain a world leader in technology. Forever unassailable. They'll look like ruthless genocidaires, though. (And frankly, that'll be accurate.) This will only increase the feeling throughout the Western world that Jews should pack up their things and sod off to Israel. At the same time, the technology -- and knowledge -- they possess will be enough to entice all the 1940 governments, so Greater Israel will face few if any sanctions.

 

[49ersfootball]

Surviving will be a lot easier than imagined. There'll be a major crunch, and various modern-day luxuries will not be able to be retained; but Israel actively tries to be decently self-reliant when it comes to its existential needs. In any case, it can easily 'compensate' any major shortfalls by using its vast military advantage to go a-conquering. (The lack of modern mass media helps them to get away with it.)

In this scenario, there's no longer a 'concerned international community' to worry about. The Israeli right (and even elements of its left) can take the gloves off: put the soft cosmopolitan-type lefty whiners in internment camps, and fully exterminate the Palestinians. This to be done near-concurrently with an overwhelming strike against all neighbouring powers, essentially realising "Greater Israel", stretching to cover all the (OTL) Arab lands from the Nile Delta to the Tigris. Arabs to be expelled from (or, if more convenient, exterminated throughout) this area.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure a nuclear decapitation strike (which doubles as a warning) against Germany. "Release all Jews from your camps now, and send us your unconditional surrender. You have 24 hours. We have hundreds more of these atomic city-killers. Obey or perish." (They don't really have hundreds-- but who could know?)

After the inevtable Geman surrender (or collapse, following more nuclear strikes), Israel should invite Jews from all ovr to settle in Greater Israel, so that its vast area can be populated. Since the 1940 Jews are by and large far more conservative, compared to 2020 people, this gives a right-wing regime more support for its typical policies. In the direct wake of German anti-Jewish policies -- and with Super Israel From The Future as the saviour of all Jews -- the regime will have lots of happy supporters.

Indeed, many gentiles all over the planet will be happy. Few care about Arabs, and many will be glad to see Jews leave for "their own damn Jew country". (Since most of the Holocaust never happens here, more people will remain 'casually' anti-semitic in the West.)

A big problem for Britain and France will be that Israel has just ended all their designs in the Near East... AND has annexed the Suez. But Israel can afford to give zero fucks, since they have nukes and super-future-tech.

Over the subsequent years and decades, Israel can fully rebuild its 2020 standards of living and tech from this situation. It'll be hard, but it'll work, and they can remain a world leader in technology. Forever unassailable. They'll look like ruthless genocidaires, though. (And frankly, that'll be accurate.) This will only increase the feeling throughout the Western world that Jews should pack up their things and sod off to Israel. At the same time, the technology -- and knowledge -- they possess will be enough to entice all the 1940 governments, so Greater Israel will face few if any sanctions.

Considering Israel has nuclear weapons in real life. They've got the right to defending themselves!

 

[ATP]

Surviving will be a lot easier than imagined. There'll be a major crunch, and various modern-day luxuries will not be able to be retained; but Israel actively tries to be decently self-reliant when it comes to its existential needs. In any case, it can easily 'compensate' any major shortfalls by using its vast military advantage to go a-conquering. (The lack of modern mass media helps them to get away with it.)

In this scenario, there's no longer a 'concerned international community' to worry about. The Israeli right (and even elements of its left) can take the gloves off: put the soft cosmopolitan-type lefty whiners in internment camps, and fully exterminate the Palestinians. This to be done near-concurrently with an overwhelming strike against all neighbouring powers, essentially realising "Greater Israel", stretching to cover all the (OTL) Arab lands from the Nile Delta to the Tigris. Arabs to be expelled from (or, if more convenient, exterminated throughout) this area.

At the same time, I'm pretty sure a nuclear decapitation strike (which doubles as a warning) against Germany. "Release all Jews from your camps now, and send us your unconditional surrender. You have 24 hours. We have hundreds more of these atomic city-killers. Obey or perish." (They don't really have hundreds-- but who could know?)

After the inevtable Geman surrender (or collapse, following more nuclear strikes), Israel should invite Jews from all ovr to settle in Greater Israel, so that its vast area can be populated. Since the 1940 Jews are by and large far more conservative, compared to 2020 people, this gives a right-wing regime more support for its typical policies. In the direct wake of German anti-Jewish policies -- and with Super Israel From The Future as the saviour of all Jews -- the regime will have lots of happy supporters.

Indeed, many gentiles all over the planet will be happy. Few care about Arabs, and many will be glad to see Jews leave for "their own damn Jew country". (Since most of the Holocaust never happens here, more people will remain 'casually' anti-semitic in the West.)

A big problem for Britain and France will be that Israel has just ended all their designs in the Near East... AND has annexed the Suez. But Israel can afford to give zero fucks, since they have nukes and super-future-tech.

Over the subsequent years and decades, Israel can fully rebuild its 2020 standards of living and tech from this situation. It'll be hard, but it'll work, and they can remain a world leader in technology. Forever unassailable. They'll look like ruthless genocidaires, though. (And frankly, that'll be accurate.) This will only increase the feeling throughout the Western world that Jews should pack up their things and sod off to Israel. At the same time, the technology -- and knowledge -- they possess will be enough to entice all the 1940 governments, so Greater Israel will face few if any sanctions.

You forget about soviets.When Germany fell,they would take it.And,after few years,take entire Europe.
100-200M of gulag victims.

Considering Israel has nuclear weapons in real life. They've got the right to defending themselves!

Like any other nation,including Palestinians.

 

[Skallagrim]

You forget about soviets.When Germany fell,they would take it.And,after few years,take entire Europe.

Logically, 2020 Israeli leaders will know that Stalin was a raging anti-semite. And the USSR was infamous for not letting people leave. So they won't want a bigger USSR.

At the time of the ISOT, Hitler and Stalin are also still allied, and the Western powers see Stalin as an enemy, not as 'Uncle Joe'. As soon as Hitler is gone, Stalin will be their foremost foe. As such, using the nuclear threat to keep Stalin from advancing would be a great move to make the West more Israel-friendly.

Therefore, the smart move would be to stop Stalin in his tracks. Order him to retreat from Poland, the Baltics, and maybe even Ukraine and Belarus. Failure to comply = nukes on Moscow and Leningrad.

 

[ATP]

Logically, 2020 Israeli leaders will know that Stalin was a raging anti-semite. And the USSR was infamous for not letting people leave. So they won't want a bigger USSR.

At the time of the ISOT, Hitler and Stalin are also still allied, and the Western powers see Stalin as an enemy, not as 'Uncle Joe'. As soon as Hitler is gone, Stalin will be their foremost foe. As such, using the nuclear threat to keep Stalin from advancing would be a great move to make the West more Israel-friendly.

Therefore, the smart move would be to stop Stalin in his tracks. Order him to retreat from Poland, the Baltics, and maybe even Ukraine and Belarus. Failure to comply = nukes on Moscow and Leningrad.

It would be smart thing to do,but - many jews now are from soviets union,who do not see them as enemies,but allies.They even keep celebrating end of WW2 9.V, not 8.V like all cyvilized people.Becouse soviets did so.

 

[mandragon]

1.Hitler's suicide attempt fails he's captured and put on trial at Nuremberg for his crimes.

2. The UFP isn't retarded and puts a substantial defensive fleet at DS9 before the Cardasians join the Domionon.

3. Picard boards and searches the Cardasian freighters during TNG.

4. Sisquo shuts the hell up and doesn't tell the Cardasians about the Klingon invasion.

5. Kirk doesn't die fighting in generations,returns with Picard and becomes the President of the UFP.

 

[Circle of Willis]

WI: 'Hittites survive the Bronze Age Collapse, Egyptians fall instead'

 

[Skallagrim]

WI: 'Hittites survive the Bronze Age Collapse, Egyptians fall instead'

It's not inconceivable. Egypt was essentially at the height of its power, but universal empires grow inflexible in their latter stages. Egypt's New Kingdom indeed shows all signs of the typical weaknesses, including disputed successions and even sometying quite analogous to Rome's crisis of the third century. Essentially, Egypt lucked out, and the Hittites got screwed. Their relative weakness made them prey to the Neo-Assyrians, who weathered the unplesantries remarkably well and were ascending to establish their great universal empire.

If we presume good luck for the Hittites (in the form of one or more very capable rulers) and countervailing bad luck for the Egyptians (more bad rulers who make critical errors), the outcome is that the Hittites are hardly an enticing prey for the Neo-Assyrians-- who will instead attempt to move against the Southern Levant and Egypt.

If we assume that such a strategy is succesful for them (which may be called into doubt, but is certainly possible) then this is almost certainly fatal for Egypt. Persian domination was certainly less over-bearing than Assyrian overlordship would be, and even that spelled the beginning of the end (albeit a very slow and dragged-out end) for Egypt as an independent entity.

We might note that the ascent of the Hittites began c. 1650 BC, with Ḫattušili I as their great civilisational founder-king (what I usually call a "Charlemagne-figure"). They were much younger, as a culture, than Egypt. This produces certain vulnerabilities, but also a greater flexibility. If given a reprieve of this sort, the Hittites would presumably bounce back from their period of misfortunes. This in turn means that looking into the future, the Lydians are written off before they can even get going, and the prospective opportunities for the Medes in the region are considerably limited. The Northern Levant will be fully annexed into the realm of the Hittites.

That, in turn, suggests that various Levantines will be driven out, although it's improbable that they would move to the Southern Levant just to be shoved around by the Neo-Assyrians. More credibly, you'd get "sea peoples" on steroids, and Egypt would be it by something more akin to the Hyksos all over again. (This, too, would contribute to the disintegration of traditional Egyptian culture as a coherent whole.)

Long-term possibilities:

-- As the Neo-Assyrians decline and give way to the Neo-Babylonians, the Hittites will have opportunities to expand and consolidate their dominion over previously-contested border regions.

-- For some time, Lower Egypt will be an Assyrian fief, presumably demographically affected by Levantine migrations. Uppoer Egypt may plausibly end up a fractured mess of vassal states ruled by Levantine-descended despots.

-- As Assyro-Babylonian power declines, Egypt will probably re-unite, but it won't be recognisable as the civilisation it once was.

-- Medean (and thus Persian) history is affected by this, although presumably, the Aryans living there will still found an empire out of opportunity, and prey on the declining Neo-Babylonians. They'll have far more trouble facing off against the Hittites; who after all can profit greatly from the circumstance I'm outlining.

-- There may in fact be a series of wars between Hittites and Greeks, which should be interesting to say the least.

 

[MrBirthday]

How's this one, @Skallagrim : the Netherlands are left to the Holy Roman Empire instead of Spain.

 

[Skallagrim]

How's this one, @Skallagrim : the Netherlands are left to the Holy Roman Empire instead of Spain.

One I like, obviously; being Dutch and being also a great fan of the Holy Roman Empire.

You can spin it in multiple ways, and there are realistic scenarios where things still turn out quite the same way. Different particulars, but the same general sort of outcome. Dutch notables were already irritated by the centralising reforms of Charles V, after all. These objections will not suddenly fade away.

However-- let's instead look at the (no less credible!) possibility that this altered inheritance changes things significantly. If the Low Countries go to Ferdinand in 1556, then the appointment of Margaretha of Parma as governess of the Netherlands would be avoided, and that would certainly be a good thing for relations between the sovereign and the Dutch. The whole dispute between the Dutch notables and Margaretha's chief advisor, Cardinal Granvelle, would be averted. This would therefore butterly away the foundations for the pact of rebellious nobles who would ultimately secede their lands from the Spanish crown in OTL.

Furthermore, Ferdinand I was more flexible than his predecessor, and he was carefil and cautious in all diplomatic efforts. This implies that if the Dutch nobles and notables refrain from Protestant trouble-making and the Dutch economy keeps turning a profit, Ferdinand will be hands-off and allow the Dutch to generally govern themselves.

This, I think, should suffice to prevent the Duch revolt. The Netherlands will remain a united league of seventeen provinces, governed from Brussels. It will remain tolerant of Protestants (something Ferdinand I did not see as a major issue), but its institutions will -- for the time being -- remain Catholic. There will be less of a clear line between Protestant and Catholic provinces. The North-East of this united realm, in particular, will see more of a diffusion.



...I rather think that, for all that it lacks the Netherlands, Spain will be better off without having to fight a lengthy war over the matter. The Holy Roman Empire may be bolstered as well. In particular, I suspect that the "Dutch solution" to the religious divide may prove attractive in various regions, and cause these regions to become functionally neutral in the great disputes over the matter.

This may in itself have several outcomes:

1) When a counterpart to the Thirty Years' War is set to erupt, the "neutral"/"mixed" states seek to get uninvolved, but the Protestants will not desist and cause unbearable tensions. This leads the neutrals to side with the Emperor to quell the unrest. Presumably, the deal will be that any Protestant who sides with "the rightful authorities" will be guaranteed the freedom to have his own religion. This leads to a much shorter war, which the Protestant side loses badly. The effect is that "moderate" Protestantism becomes accepted within the HRE, but the more militant strains (and sepecially local rulers who would use it to defy the Emperor) are ruthlessly stamped out.

2) The "neutral"/"mixed" states effectively block both sides from fighting each other on a large scale, since whichever one transgresses on the middle ground will find those states suddenly aligned with his enemy. The effect of this allows the Protestant states to de facto secede from the HRE; an outcome that the Habsburgs will long refuse to recognise, but which they cannot reverse. War is averted. The HRE is reduced in size, but is now home only to a majority of Catholics and a minority of "moderate"/"loyal" Protestants who are secure in their religious rights.

3) The Emperor doesn't accept that the "moderates" are standing in the way of his ambitions of quelling the insurrections by force, and pushes through with military might. The moderates all flock to the Protestant side. This is the closest situation to OTL, but I think that because of the political backidrop, you msy well see sizable forces of Catholics fighting against the Emperor. I think that this, too, may result in a shorter war-- with a more decisive outcome. The HRE will be split between a Catholic-Imperial South, and Northern leage of states that is mostlt Protestant, but also includes Catholics; all united in opposing an Emperor who has... overstepped.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

One I like, obviously; being Dutch and being also a great fan of the Holy Roman Empire.

You can spin it in multiple ways, and there are realistic scenarios where things still turn out quite the same way. Different particulars, but the same general sort of outcome. Dutch notables were already irritated by the centralising reforms of Charles V, after all. These objections will not suddenly fade away.

However-- let's instead look at the (no less credible!) possibility that this altered inheritance changes things significantly. If the Low Countries go to Ferdinand in 1556, then the appointment of Margaretha of Parma as governess of the Netherlands would be avoided, and that would certainly be a good thing for relations between the sovereign and the Dutch. The whole dispute between the Dutch notables and Margaretha's chief advisor, Cardinal Granvelle, would be averted. This would therefore butterly away the foundations for the pact of rebellious nobles who would ultimately secede their lands from the Spanish crown in OTL.

Furthermore, Ferdinand I was more flexible than his predecessor, and he was carefil and cautious in all diplomatic efforts. This implies that if the Dutch nobles and notables refrain from Protestant trouble-making and the Dutch economy keeps turning a profit, Ferdinand will be hands-off and allow the Dutch to generally govern themselves.

This, I think, should suffice to prevent the Duch revolt. The Netherlands will remain a united league of seventeen provinces, governed from Brussels. It will remain tolerant of Protestants (something Ferdinand I did not see as a major issue), but its institutions will -- for the time being -- remain Catholic. There will be less of a clear line between Protestant and Catholic provinces. The North-East of this united realm, in particular, will see more of a diffusion.



...I rather think that, for all that it lacks the Netherlands, Spain will be better off without having to fight a lengthy war over the matter. The Holy Roman Empire may be bolstered as well. In particular, I suspect that the "Dutch solution" to the religious divide may prove attractive in various regions, and cause these regions to become functionally neutral in the great disputes over the matter.

This may in itself have several outcomes:

1) When a counterpart to the Thirty Years' War is set to erupt, the "neutral"/"mixed" states seek to get uninvolved, but the Protestants will not desist and cause unbearable tensions. This leads the neutrals to side with the Emperor to quell the unrest. Presumably, the deal will be that any Protestant who sides with "the rightful authorities" will be guaranteed the freedom to have his own religion. This leads to a much shorter war, which the Protestant side loses badly. The effect is that "moderate" Protestantism becomes accepted within the HRE, but the more militant strains (and sepecially local rulers who would use it to defy the Emperor) are ruthlessly stamped out.

2) The "neutral"/"mixed" states effectively block both sides from fighting each other on a large scale, since whichever one transgresses on the middle ground will find those states suddenly aligned with his enemy. The effect of this allows the Protestant states to de facto secede from the HRE; an outcome that the Habsburgs will long refuse to recognise, but which they cannot reverse. War is averted. The HRE is reduced in size, but is now home only to a majority of Catholics and a minority of "moderate"/"loyal" Protestants who are secure in their religious rights.

3) The Emperor doesn't accept that the "moderates" are standing in the way of his ambitions of quelling the insurrections by force, and pushes through with military might. The moderates all flock to the Protestant side. This is the closest situation to OTL, but I think that because of the political backidrop, you msy well see sizable forces of Catholics fighting against the Emperor. I think that this, too, may result in a shorter war-- with a more decisive outcome. The HRE will be split between a Catholic-Imperial South, and Northern leage of states that is mostlt Protestant, but also includes Catholics; all united in opposing an Emperor who has... overstepped.

I wonder if this could also lead to further centralization of power within the HRE that may in effect become one nation. With Ferdinand receiving the Low Countries instead of Spain, the Spaniards might be compensated with more Italian holdings in this scenario. A centralized HRE with the inclusion of the Dutch territories will probably become an economic player in its own right, but I would also suspect that it may face the Scandinavian countries and England, as well as France, as possible rivals. The radical factions of the Protestant movement within the HRE could possibly relocate to either France or England, depending on where they would end up. (England might be more plausible as a candidate for radical Protestant exiles, given its position).

If an analogue to the 30YW does play out, how will that affect the HRE's long term struggles against the Ottomans? Moreover, there may be a chance that the HRE may even extend its influence to Poland-Lithuania, possibly getting involved in selecting a new king.

 

[mandragon]

I wonder if this could also lead to further centralization of power within the HRE that may in effect become one nation. With Ferdinand receiving the Low Countries instead of Spain, the Spaniards might be compensated with more Italian holdings in this scenario. A centralized HRE with the inclusion of the Dutch territories will probably become an economic player in its own right, but I would also suspect that it may face the Scandinavian countries and England, as well as France, as possible rivals. The radical factions of the Protestant movement within the HRE could possibly relocate to either France or England, depending on where they would end up. (England might be more plausible as a candidate for radical Protestant exiles, given its position).

If an analogue to the 30YW does play out, how will that affect the HRE's long term struggles against the Ottomans? Moreover, there may be a chance that the HRE may even extend its influence to Poland-Lithuania, possibly getting involved in selecting a new king.

If they become more centralized then the HRE will probably try to get colonies as well.