Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

Without the war and aftermath they can focus on resolving the issues within the country, rather than foreign issues being a distraction. Given the power of socialism in Italy pre-war and without the war having that diverted into Fascism would mean it could eventually evolve away from monarchy.

Throw in enough scandalous personal behavior by royal family members, sexually or financially or sacrilegiously, and you've easily made the monarchy dispensable.

Intriguing. But would this mean that the CPs will win WWI?

Maybe, but it would still meet your prompt.

Or it could just lead to a later, harder Allied & Associated powers victory.

Or via butterflies something else positive could come about to offset, wholly or in part, the absence of the Italian factor on the Entente side.
 
Throw in enough scandalous personal behavior by royal family members, sexually or financially or sacrilegiously, and you've easily made the monarchy dispensable.



Maybe, but it would still meet your prompt.

Or it could just lead to a later, harder Allied & Associated powers victory.

Or via butterflies something else positive could come about to offset, wholly or in part, the absence of the Italian factor on the Entente side.

Doesn't seem to work for Spain ... yet, at least! ;)

Yeah, I just don't want republican success in Italy to compromise the overall Allied war effort in WWI.

I wonder just how much worse the peace settlement for Italy is in this TL if the Allies still win WWI. In this TL, Italy might enter the war near the very end in an attempt to grab some territorial spoils for itself.
 
Doesn't seem to work for Spain ... yet, at least! ;)

Yeah, I just don't want republican success in Italy to compromise the overall Allied war effort in WWI.

I wonder just how much worse the peace settlement for Italy is in this TL if the Allies still win WWI. In this TL, Italy might enter the war near the very end in an attempt to grab some territorial spoils for itself.

Italy could theoretically get every scrap of land it got in OTL for absolutely no war effort.

Denmark got north Schleswig based of zero war effort, some ethnic claims, and a throat-clearing noise.
 
Italy could theoretically get every scrap of land it got in OTL for absolutely no war effort.

Denmark got north Schleswig based of zero war effort, some ethnic claims, and a throat-clearing noise.

If the Allies still win the war, then Yeah, sure. Ditto for Romania.

Yep, certainly true for Denmark.

I'm actually interested in how much more impressive the extreme Italian male longevity performance for the early 21st century is going to be without any Italian participation in WWI:


How many future male supercentenarians did Italy lose as a result of WWI?
 
'AHC: Have Europe experience post-WWI-style territorial changes, but at a much lower cost in lives relative to real life'

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I disagree completely with what you say here. You have not actually responded to my point at all. I explained why government will not function as intended, and you reply with (basically) "well, you just need to work on it". That's not an argument, and it doesn't negate the fact that I already laid out a reasoning as to why "working on it" doesn't work and cannot work.

I also dispute your attempt to cast a resistance to enforced power structures as "seeking a free ride". By claiming that, you assume (and this is reflected in what you write) that the opponents of governmental power believe that "the problem will solve itself", and you deem this lazy and dangerous. Okay. But that's not what I said. I don't think the problem will solve itself. I think the problem is human nature and it cannot be solved. What I said was that I will accept the problem of "Homo homini lupus", and I will do that because the alternative is worse.

So please stop with the false accusations of "free riding". I accept the risks, and expect no free lunch. I expect to have to fight, and I expect to have to do it alone, or beside those who stand with me of their own accord. I expect nothing from you, or anyone, that you're not willing to offer freely. The only thing I demand from others is that they don't try to claim power over me, because I resent such attempts. I have signed no social contract. In the face of governments who do try it, I exert all reasonable efforts (whether legal or otherwise) to withdraw myself from their control, and to keep my property out of their reach. I encourage everyone to do the same -- unless they prefer the true "free ride", which is the obedient life.

(I stress that a cheerful anarchism requires no bombs, nor even any kind of embittered resistance. Only a persistent disobedience, and the presence of mind to stay out of the lion's jaws.)

Finally, I must -- on ontological grounds -- dispute your statement that the saying "there is no such thing as society" is a lie. It's not a lie at all. Society is an epistemological concept; a pure abstraction. It does not actually exist. I can prove this logically, without any effort. The idea(!) of "society" has to be implemented by human beings -- individuals, who physically exist, and are therefore ontologically real. You can remove everything that constitutes the concept of "society", but this does not negate the existence of individual human beings. However. If you remove all individuals, there can be no "society". This is because individuals create the notion of society. One is a mere concept, the other is a concrete fact.

People who mis-reference the quote in question typically miss the point of it, which is that all policies which harm the rights and freedoms of the individual for the "good of society" are, by definition, sacrificing the interests of real, existing people for the sake of an abstract concept. That kind of ruthlessness (even with supposedly good intentions) brings us fairly close to a working definition of evil.

I have already argued why trying to do "good" through the exercise of power over others can lead to nothing good in the realm of economics. The above should suffice to outline why I believe it can do no good in any other realm, either.

I would have to disagree with what you say and the interpretation you put on what I say. I also think people have a right to work together for their own security and prosperity. That does include working against people who threat or harm them, even if the latter insist they can do what they like regardless of the contents to others. For instance if you were the owner of a factor and insisted that rather than treat dangerous waste being produced you simply dumped it into a local water course.

Similarly as you say society is a construct of people. As such if people create and support a set of ideas then by definition it is real.

True all humans are fallible. However that is an incentive to provide checks on such fallibility so as to minimize the resultant damage. That's much better than saying because failures occur its worthless doing anything. Or believing that isolated individuals are able to act on their own to oppose such groups rather than in co-operation.

Yes some governments get very dark and others are always prone to corruption but that applies to all organisations. I.e. religious groups, large companies, trade bodies, military organisations etc.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
'More Multilingual Anglosphere'.

Which is to say, have substantially larger numbers of native Anglophones more prone to learning foreign languages. For one, I suppose a good start is having the US either join the Central Powers or stay out of World War One, altogether. (German was a big second language before being hysterically stamped out, and has never regained the prominence it enjoyed in the early twentieth century, since then.)
 
'More Multilingual Anglosphere'.

Which is to say, have substantially larger numbers of native Anglophones more prone to learning foreign languages. For one, I suppose a good start is having the US either join the Central Powers or stay out of World War One, altogether. (German was a big second language before being hysterically stamped out, and it has never regained the prominence it enjoyed in the early twentieth century, since then.)

Have the Anglosphere implement open borders! :ROFLMAO::eek:
 
'More Multilingual Anglosphere'.

Which is to say, have substantially larger numbers of native Anglophones more prone to learning foreign languages. For one, I suppose a good start is having the US either join the Central Powers or stay out of World War One, altogether. (German was a big second language before being hysterically stamped out, and has never regained the prominence it enjoyed in the early twentieth century, since then.)
Some people around here have tried to come up with "US annexes Mexico" timelines. That would probably also do the trick. Do both and the US might have three official languages.
 
Have the Anglosphere implement open borders! :ROFLMAO::eek:

I was thinking something further back, and probably with less synchronized policy on the part of most (or at least, the most prominent) English-speaking nations.

As such, I don’t suppose there’s a way for early British colonists to bring back more than just foreign products or vocabulary with them? Which is to say, a greater interest in learning the languages of the various indigenous peoples they react with (which started off as more “equitable”, anyway)?
 
I was thinking something further back, and probably with less synchronized policy on the part of most (or at least, the most prominent) English-speaking nations.

As such, I don’t suppose there’s a way for early British colonists to bring back more than just foreign products or vocabulary with them? Which is to say, a greater interest in learning the languages of the various indigenous peoples they react with (which started off as more “equitable”, anyway)?

Learning the languages of indigenous peoples could become a type of cool thing that educated Americans do, but how exactly do you spread it to the American masses? After all, the American masses probably weren't interested in concepts such as this one:

 
‘ATL 2016 Republican Nominees’.

More specifically, those that also could’ve defeated Hillary Clinton in November. (Yes, I know Trump won via the Electoral College, and so on and so forth.)
 
John Kasich, perhaps?

Maybe.

Another one I’ve seen is having Mitt Romney run again? On the one hand, he’s a washed-up, two-time loser who lacks voter enthusiasm and just has the appearance of a suit-and-tie corporate Republican. But on the other, he’s facing off against Hillary Clinton this time, so…
 

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