Simple: Ukrainians got their freedom, their democracy, their freedom of speech, and their ability of organize a civil society. As for the risk of nuclear war, that's why we're not getting directly involved in this conflict--at least, not unless Putin uses chemical weapons and/or nukes in Ukraine.
Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
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Simple: Ukrainians got their freedom, their democracy, their freedom of speech, and their ability of organize a civil society. As for the risk of nuclear war, that's why we're not getting directly involved in this conflict--at least, not unless Putin uses chemical weapons and/or nukes in Ukraine.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
'Implausible (But Non-ASB) PoDs'.
For one, we've had loads of crazy things that people never saw coming happen IOTL, so I wouldn't dismiss ATL potential for unlikely events to occur and leaders to rise with the "right" nudge, too. After all, who in WWI Germany could've imagined a pauper with a toothbrush mustache—or in a world where he never seized power, for that matter—lifting it out of an economic depression after it lost the first round, reconquering a host of lost territory before instigating a second conflict, and industrially mass-murdering 17 million people in just a few short years, becoming the most reviled man in history in the process?
For one, we've had loads of crazy things that people never saw coming happen IOTL, so I wouldn't dismiss ATL potential for unlikely events to occur and leaders to rise with the "right" nudge, too. After all, who in WWI Germany could've imagined a pauper with a toothbrush mustache—or in a world where he never seized power, for that matter—lifting it out of an economic depression after it lost the first round, reconquering a host of lost territory before instigating a second conflict, and industrially mass-murdering 17 million people in just a few short years, becoming the most reviled man in history in the process?
Have the Whites win the Russian Civil War, have Russia subsequently go Fascist in the 1920s or 1930s, and have Russia spark a new war with Turkey both to avenge the Armenian Genocide and in order to reconquer Constantinople for Christendom?
I actually previously created a thread about this:
Also, another such PoD might be this:
Have China and Russia partition Mongolia between the two of them Molotov-Ribbentrop-style. Though that one is likely for the future as opposed to the past.
Bassoe
Well-known member
He's very possible. Of course, it would be scary if he decides to invade his neighbors while also launching a Holocaust of Russia's Jews at home. Though in his case, a mass deportation of Russia's Jews to Siberia and/or Central Asia might be more likely. Russia had enough remote space that it didn't "need" to engage in mass murder like Nazi Germany "needed" to.
And i am sure,that he would still killed far less people then soviets.And made Russian buddists.For that alone,i would like to see him as new tsar.
Yes,but it would be still fun to watch.From another country,of course.
TheRomanSlayer
Kayabangan, Dugo, at Dangal
Put Ataturk in charge of the Caucasian theater, and Sarikamish would vastly be different. The only reason why the Russians won that battle was because Enver Pasha didn't really organize properly for such a winter campaign.
But would that be enough to permanently prevent the Armenian Genocide?
Of course,independent Poland would be good place to see how mad barons is trying turn russians into buddhists.
How prevent armenian genocide? let Ottyomans keep real power,kill Ataturk&others, find competent generals - and turks could hold russians without genocide.
Important thing - all important "young turks" must be killed before WW1.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Perhaps, but I'd say that's because Sternberg was too berserk and unhinged to do nearly as much long-term damage, since he'd make too many enemies determined to crush him before he becomes too powerful. That, and whatever regime he established probably would've collapsed in on itself in a matter of years, rather than teetering for decades—and thus, having way more time to mass-murder millions of people—like the USSR did.
Maybe someone more competent overthrows him and replaces his tinpot dictatorship with a more competent one, though?
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Maybe someone more competent overthrows him and replaces his tinpot dictatorship with a more competent one, though?
Not exactly sure who would, since thuggish, but relatively “sane” people tend to be sidelined and/or in short supply to begin with under such regimes. But, then again, I don’t know as much about the Mad Baron’s lieutenants or potential “dark-horse” candidates who could’ve seized his mantle, so maybe I’m wrong there.
Thuggish but relatively sane people who tend to kiss ass a lot might see their skins saved and remain in high positions in power. Though I will admit that there is a possibility that they could get purged. But it's not guaranteed, as evidenced by Khrushchev surviving Stalin's purges.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Yeah, but considering what a madman Sternberg was, I kinda’ doubt subordinates who he fears could oust him will last nearly that long.
Now that I think about it, though, it really seems that semi-reputable dictatorships that cast a wider net that ensnares the “well-meaning” majority of people and persuades them to participate in repression and mass-murder via slow-rolling and heavy PR investment are way more dangerous than fringe extremist groups made up of murderous and nihilistic psychopaths who “normal” people instinctively fear and hate. Terrorist attacks are horrible, but convincing the vast majority of people who’d otherwise abhor you to snitch on their neighbors, operate those railcars, and design those gas chambers is how the piles of corpses wracked up by blood-crazed terrorists turn into mountains of corpses wracked up by genocidal governments.