Buba
A total creep
There are no export markets for anything more sophisticated than a hammer ...
Oh, OK, I'm being dramatic as usual.
Pedal powered sewing machines or lathe will find markets.
Alternate History Ideas and Discussion
- Thread starter AndrewJTalon
- Start date
Oh, OK, I'm being dramatic as usual.
Pedal powered sewing machines or lathe will find markets.
As far as I can see, the only man whose really managed to surrvive an Revolutionary moment as it were was Hirhito. Imperfect analogy as it was an Foregin occupying force, but still there was enough support to at least make him resign for his son and abolishment was within the realm of possibility. However Hirhito got very much out front to help the occupation which helped out.
Bassoe
Well-known member
The 1933s Business Plot kicks off an American civil war between corporatists, communists and nationalists now that all three sides know that they can't win via elections when their rivals are willing to blatantly cheat. The communists win and go full imperialist, fueling their economy on modern china-style make-work jobs, specifically building a military-industry complex and soldiering, to conquer everywhere weaker than them and loot everything, sorry, "export the revolution". This works fine against Mexico who has no powerful allies, less when attempting to poach Canada from the British Empire.
The uptimers can charge people for fighting their proxy wars in Europe. Which I suppose is a reason for them to kick off earlier than I suggested in my previous post.There are no export markets for anything more sophisticated than a hammer ...
Oh, OK, I'm being dramatic as usual.
Pedal powered sewing machines or lathe will find markets.
It's hard to overstate the significance of someone having semi-automatic small bore smokeless powder magazine rifles when everyone else has black powder muzzle loaders. Fewer soldiers will put out more bullets in less time with more accuracy (so long as they don't buy select fire assault rifles) at longer range and the bullets will weigh less. And they'll be able to keep up that rate of fire with bayonets fixed without stabbing themselves in the hand.
One nation buys modern-ish rifles for their skirmishers and they'll walk all over anyone who doesn't have them for as long as either uptime nation is willing to sell them bullets that fit in them. And this means everyone has to buy guns and ammo.
And there's going to be other military technologies that a 17th century soldier can use as well. RPGs for instance. I don't know what we or the Russians are making or can put back into production in the 3-4" towed artillery range.
Buba
A total creep
I can just see the woke media debating which bunch of slavers to hire out the US Army to
Oh, I do not doubt that the uties can overrun the world - but would they?
You need to copy museum pieces. Anything that is in current production (or storage) is for towing by vehicles. For towing by horse/oxen/elephants/ etc. you need limbers. Same goes for caissons. Hmm, are there even caissons anymore, in these Lesser Times?
Oh, I do not doubt that the uties can overrun the world - but would they?
Last edited:
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Uh, I was under the impression it'd be downtimers fighting proxy wars on behalf of their uptimer backers? While I understand they don't have a harmonious relationship and don't expect it to improve here, I think the US and Russia would both prefer to avoid engaging in direct warfare like they did back in the Cold War days.
In which case, I don't see why uptimers would charge downtimers to do dirty work on behalf of those same uptimers. I can, however, foresee the US and Russia charging their client states for training, consulting, and arms sales, as well as demanding access to downtimer oil reservoirs and other raw-material stores.
Honestly, I wonder if the Soviet Union ever actually collapses and breaks up in this scenario. Here, there's no Operation Barbarossa and thus no 27 million Soviet deaths as a result of World War II.
I also wonder how the Holocaust will be remembered here with a much smaller death toll. Will Israel still be created in this scenario?
What does Japan do here?
And what happens to Italy after Mussolini's death?
Do Texas and California still remain Mexican right now in such a scenario? What about Florida? What happens to it here?
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Not sure. The ATL fate of states is one aspect of my question, depending on how back-and-forth with the other European empires goes and whether or not BNA is eventually granted dominion status.
Yeah, on his website, Gwern talks about how having the US win the ARW might have been a bad thing:
But ultimately I think that it boils down to whether one likes how Texas and California look today or whether one thinks that having them remain under Mexican rule would have been better.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Yeah, on his website, Gwern talks about how having the US win the ARW might have been a bad thing:
But ultimately I think that it boils down to whether one likes how Texas and California look today or whether one thinks that having them remain under Mexican rule would have been better.
Okay, thanks. Skimmed the section on the American Revolution, but will look more closely at it later.
Yeah, Gwern is certainly an extremely smart thinker.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Yeah, saw some interesting-looking references there.
Curious as to what the other side of the story was, since I've been inundated with what pretty much amounts to "Washington good, King George bad!" my whole life. (I'm American, in case that wasn't clear.)
FWIW, Gwern is also an American. He simply came to conclude that what he was taught in history class was wrong.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Got it, thanks.
Doomsought
Well-known member
The French often supported the Native Americans in return for harassing the British. They also would never sell Louisiana to perfidious albions.
So it is very likely that North America would either end up more split up, or there would be a few more wars needed to combine things. Probably a bit of both.
Would an independent Native American state in northern Louisiana Territory have been possible here?