Alternate History Ideas and Discussion

[Blasterbot]

bit of a long wind up and a bit mucho texto. still fun. Does Qanon count as an alternate history?

 

[Agent23]

bit of a long wind up and a bit mucho texto. still fun. Does Qanon count as an alternate history?

Nope, wrong thread, I even reported it, asking it to be moved to the right one.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Unlikely.
And the POD should be around the time of the April Uprising.

Almost forgot about that.

Nope, we are keeping the Orthodoxy.

However, one of the main pro-Ottoman forces at the time was Disraeli and the Magyars.

So, let us say that some huge scandal in the UK causes the Disraeli government to fall, while some problems in the colonies sap some of Britain's energy.
Snap elections are called and William Gladstone who was a vocal critic of the Ottoman massacres, is elected prime minister.

Meanwhile, we can have some group of Magyar radicals stir up some trouble in AH and thus make the Austrians reconsider the way they have treated the Slavs and maybe decide to bolster them to serve as a counter-weight to the Magyars.

That of course might get us San Stefano Bulgaria, but who will come in and kick the ass of the Ottomans?

The funny thing is that Uniate Bulgaria almost became a thing, until the establishment of the Bulgarian Exarchate.

A Slavic component of Greater Austria would have been a thing, though it is basically Greater Croatia plus Slovenia and after 1903, Bosnia and Hercegovina. Additionally, you can also have instability in Serbia that leads to an Austrian annexation of the Principality of Serbia, and southeastern Serbia would essentially go to San Stefano Bulgaria.

And let us not forget that this was the age of Empire, so it might be possible for some less romantic and humanitarian interests to come into play, like for example some nascent Italian desire for colonial expansion into Africa and the eastern med.

As to Austria, well, it can use this to please its Slavic subjects and use them to fuck with the Magyars and also it might see a large, strong Bulgaria as a counterweight to Serbia I also suspect that the Poles and other latinized Slavs in AH might like the chance to basically steal Orthodox Russia's lunch and show that it is in fact not a proper defender of Slavdom.
And now since there are potential alternate interests at play, let us add even more kindling to the fire and throw a big old match on top of it.
Let us say that the Turks perpetrate something as bad as the Batak massacre after the big scandal about it explodes in Europe.
However, this massacre happens in what is modern day Rakovski which has a sizable Catholic population.
This will IMHO entice France to join in.
So basically you get a sort of Itallo-Austrian-British coalition of the willing.

And the Bosphorous and the Dardanelles can be under some joint administration/get demilitarized in a way similar to what the Montreaux convention did in the OTL post WWI.

And of course, Britain will see this as a chance to stop propping up the Sick Man of Europe, and start devouring its corpse directly.

We could still see a Russo-Turkish War in this scenario, but it would be more of Russia investing in the Caucasus theater of the conflict through stirring up the Armenians of the Ottoman Empire, but they also have trouble with their own Armenian population, plus the North Caucasian Muslims. Of course, We can also have a no Russo-Turkish War and Russia instead focuses more on Asia, improving ties with the Qing Dynasty in the process.

 

[Buba]

@Agent23 - Gladstone lost the 1874 election (voting in Jan and Feb), which he called at least a year earlier than he had to. And unexpectedly lost it, in spite of winning a majority of votes.
He could had put off the election for over a year - until November 1875 or so. As 18 months is a veeeery long time in politics, the Liberals could had won, or got enough seats as to form a coalition with the Irish "Home Rule" party.

 

[Agent23]

@Agent23 - Gladstone lost the 1874 election (voting in Jan and Feb), which he called at least a year earlier than he had to. And unexpectedly lost it, in spite of winning a majority of votes.
He could had put off the election for over a year - until November 1875 or so. As 18 months is a veeeery long time in politics, the Liberals culd had won, or got enough seats as to form a coalition with the Irish "Home Rule" party.

Possible, yes, but I would prefer a scandal that somehow turns Disraeli and his associates into persona non grata, preferably after the violent suppression of the April uprising and after a bunch of Catholics, including at least a few prominent foreign monks, get the Batak treatment.

Thst should unleash the dogs of war against the Ottomans.

I want things to be utterly shaken up in London.

 

[Buba]

Possible, yes, but I would prefer a scandal that somehow turns Disraeli and his associates into persona non grata, preferably after the violent suppression of the April uprising and after a bunch of Catholics, including at least a few prominent foreign monks, get the Batak treatment.

I want things to be utterly shaken up in London.

Oh, the something which might make a Kennedy unelectable in Massachussets - have him be caught in bed with a boy or a dead girl.

 

[ATP]

Oh, the something which might make a Kennedy unelectable in Massachussets - have him be caught in bed with a boy or a dead girl.

Why not both ? dead boys would do,too !

 

[Agent23]

Oh, the something which might make a Kennedy unelectable in Massachussets - have him be caught in bed with a boy or a dead girl.

I actually like the guy, he was smart, a good writer, etc.
Model conservative.

So him sadly dying, maybe after some big financial conspiracy is discovered, and one of the conspirators poisons him, would fit.

Finding a way to rid of him would not be that hard given his Jewish background and the view on Jews back in the day, I mean, just look at the Dreifuss affair, and that is after 50 years of extra enlightenment.

In any case, even though he fucked Bulgaria over and was our enemy, I still respect him too much to want him going down in something like that.

He discovers major corruption, contacts some of his Tory associates, turns out one is part of it, the conspirator shoots him in the heart.

 

[49ersfootball]

Political What Ifs:
1.) Christie defeats Hillary in the 2016 presidential election & wins reelection handily in a landslide over Sleepy Joe in 2020. What are the ramifications going forward (IF Trump does not pull the trigger) ?

2.) Sandoval wins the NV US Senate election in 2016 against Cortez Masto.

3.) How would President Christie handle Putin wreaking havoc in Europe, etc., ?

 

[Blasterbot]

More war in the middle east. little of substance accomplished. Doubt that Joe Biden runs since there is no MAGA. there would be a very significant portion of disillusioned people who would be very checked out of politics. They might start pushing 3rd parties harder or the populist movement would be embraced by the left in this timeline resulting in a 2024 Dem landslide.

 

[49ersfootball]

More war in the middle east. little of substance accomplished. Doubt that Joe Biden runs since there is no MAGA. there would be a very significant portion of disillusioned people who would be very checked out of politics. They might start pushing 3rd parties harder or the populist movement would be embraced by the left in this timeline resulting in a 2024 Dem landslide.

It would open the door for MI Governor Gretchen Whitmer (D) in 2024 in that scenario.

 

[Zyobot]

'George Washington Serves A Third Term'.

 

[Zyobot]

'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'.

That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead.

 

[Doomsought]

'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'.

That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead.

Like native Americans they were hampered by a lack of easily accessible metal deposits which are needed to make the jump from late neolithic to bronze age technology. Give Paupa new guinea some surface deposits of tin, and make the indonesean copper deposits easier to extract with neolithic technology. The long distance trade will help drive empire building as they get into the bronze age.

 

[Buba]

From another forum.
Not alt-hist as such, but more a sad example of urban legends circulated as truth, and thus alt-hist in its own right:
Reminds me a lot of Emperor Nerva who basically kept the Roman Empire's finances afloat by melting down all those gold statues of his predecessor that were lying about before shuffling off the mortal coil prior to the debt eating up all of this limited financial boon.

 

[Zyobot]

'US Refuses To Recognize Red China As Legitimate'.

See here for OTL context. Frankly, if I were to add another big fat demerit to Jimmy Carter's report card, it'd be recognizing the PRC and severing relations with Taiwan.

 

[ATP]

'AHC: Austronesians Colonize The World'.

That is, the Austronesian peoples go on a global empire-building spree and spread their cultures, customs, and languages as far and wide as OTL West. Even IOTL, they built some pretty impressive trade networks and maritime empires, so it's a shame their momentum fizzled out and gave way to European dominance instead.

I remember some fantasy book/forget title and author,as usual/ where in magical Not England is city attacked by fleet of not-Australians with megalania and kangooro calvary ,which sailed all the way to not-Europe to get...meat.
Yup,they sail here to catch people and eat them.
Very funny,considering that cattle would be better.

They are saved by not- scotish barbarians on mammoths.

 

[Zyobot]

'AHC: George W. Bush Successfully Impeached'.

 

[Buba]

Tsar Aleksander is not a Polonofile and does not create Kingdom of Poland in 1815.
The fate of the Duchy of Warsaw is not really relevant here - can be cut up or preserved under Austrian/Prussian/Russian supervision (e.g. given to Wettins in return for loss of Saxony) .
What matters is that Russia ends on the Niemen and Bug Rivers, and has no rebelious, alien population inside its westernmost reaches (and no Polish salient).
Impact on Russia?

 

[Agent23]

Tsar Aleksander is not a Polonofile and does not create Kingdom of Poland in 1815.
The fate of the Duchy of Warsaw is not really relevant here - can be cut up or preserved under Austrian/Prussian/Russian supervision (e.g. given to Wettins in return for loss of Saxony) .
What matters is that Russia ends on the Niemen and Bug Rivers, and has no rebelious, alien population inside its westernmost reaches (and no Polish salient).
Impact on Russia?

They will have to industrialize western Russia and the Urals faster.
Maybe this will free up some more of their energy to expand into the Caucasus and Siberia, and maybe they will prioritize taking the eastern Balkans and the Bosporus to secure their trade and prevent anyone digging too deeply into their heartland.