Babylon 5 A Fighting Chance --- A Babylon 5 AU

Reader mode
The Immortal Watch Dog said:
I can see Lord Refa and Clark's factions both using this as an excuse to innovate, expand and launch certain endeavors.
Click to expand...

As much as they tried to made Refa utterly unlikeable in the show (William Forward's contribution is so under-appreciated), at least he had some vision. I mean, what plan had more scrupulous nobles like Jaddo? Disarmament? Democracy? There is nothing showed anyone had any serious plan what to do with the Republic. Refa's solution was return to glorious past, whatever cost, to elevate his House in the process and I assumed that's why Londo joined forces with him, because he was the only viable option to do anything. Other Centauri couldn't care less, since I assume more of them thought more like money-focused Venezian merchants, not ambitious Roman nobles.

EDIT: I know the old emperor had some pacifistic dreams, but they were very clearly not shared by majority of his subjects, just by judging how extremely easy his underlings were purged after his death. Refa himself at the start doesn't seem overly confident with power of their faction and only time and continued support from Londo's 'friends' made him overconfident.
 
Last edited:
The Emperor I think had a bit of a crisis in his old age, in his prime he was quite strong and while recognising the Centauri were crumbling a bit he was still ready to go to war with Earth over a border dispute. Then at some point he lost his son and heir and it seems he wanted to try and be forgiving instead of imperious. Results may vary :p

I reckon that most ordinary Centauri were fiercely patriotic and were probably more like Londo than the Emperor. The big houses were likely too neck deep in their own intrigues and schemes to have a grand vision for the nation so you needed an outsider like Londo to be the catalyst.
Refa I think latched onto Londo as he had very sharp political instincts. The difference was that while Londo wanted the Centauri to be great, Refa wanted the Centauri to be great but also to be in charge. This was a serious issue as Refa deliberately sabotaged his political rivals during the Narn war by witholding reinforcements and supplies to their house fleets. This succeeded in making sure his enemies died and their powerbase was ruined, but it also let the Narn blitz Centauri space and end up one jump from Centauri Prime :p

So he definitely had the vision of a strong Centauri, but he also put his own power and prosperity ahead of that which is why Londo ended up on opposite sides. But Refa was probably critical to the plan as he ruled a much stronger House and had much better political connections than Londo.

As a note the young lady who listens to Emperor Londo telling the tale of the Minbari war was Refa's daughter :) She married Vir which presumably made her Empress, so House Refa eventually ended up with the power it craved though she seemed pretty sane :p
 
mwkillkenny84 said:
Speaking of Vir Cotto, will he gain here like in the OTL the dubious honor of being a "Cause of Death: Understimating Vir Cotto"?
Click to expand...
Probably, I don't want to alter too much with his character nor Londo and G'ar because I don't want to mess with perfection :p Lot of stuff in B5 can be improved but those characters and their basic arcs are pretty untouchable
 
Imperial rule of House Cotto could unironically be very dark. For the greater good of the Republic, Vir can became much, much worse tyrant than Refa ever could hope to be. Because Refa was fully aware that what he's doing would be considered heinous, and just didn't care and sought power, everyone was just tool to elevate him.
But I could see Vir capable of doing terrible things if believed it's the best option.

There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.
 
Vlad_Dracul89 said:
Imperial rule of House Cotto could unironically be very dark. For the greater good of the Republic, Vir can became much, much worse tyrant than Refa ever could hope to be. Because Refa was fully aware that what he's doing would be considered heinous, and just didn't care and sought power, everyone was just tool to elevate him.
But I could see Vir capable of doing terrible things if believed it's the best option.

There is no creature on earth half so terrifying as a truly just man.
Click to expand...
Vir needs a G'Kar. Unfortunately, Lennier is just not really available if the script goes somewhat true.
 
Will Sinclair still become Babylon 5's station Commander? And the fact that he is Valen ever come to light for the Minbari?
 
No and yes :)
He'll still become head of the Rangers because of this and play a large role in the story but as the Minbari have less influence over the Babylon project they didn't get to demand him as CO.
But he'll still end up on B5 as CAG and be part of the circle of senior officers
 
The Whispering Monk said:
Vir needs a G'Kar. Unfortunately, Lennier is just not really available if the script goes somewhat true.
Click to expand...

Vir has Zack Allen, who seems to be his right hand and probably the highest ranking non Centauri in court.

The trouble is Zack, is well..Zack and he's likely to enable Vir than reign him in because he suffers from the exact same character flaw only amplified.

Harlock said:
No and yes :)
He'll still become head of the Rangers because of this and play a large role in the story but as the Minbari have less influence over the Babylon project they didn't get to demand him as CO.
But he'll still end up on B5 as CAG and be part of the circle of senior officers
Click to expand...

Honestly him as CAG and Sheridan as commander of the station seems ideal.

The two would compliment each other rather well in each role and watch each other's backs.
 
WAR said:
Will Sinclair still become Babylon 5's station Commander? And the fact that he is Valen ever come to light for the Minbari?
Click to expand...

In the end, it could be purely Sinclair's decision. Are they absolutely sure he's so necessary, aside from his knowledge of poetry and literature? Or what 'Valen' did could be more or less done by any capable Human commander with higher than average intelligence?
Then the timeline would just retcon itself, with a little different Valen (idea borrowed from P. Anderson's 'Time Patrol' series).

If so, killing Sinclair would be just as pointless as killing Sheridan, since some 'Valen' would still have happened in the past, because it already happened.
 
one assumes there was a timeline originally where Valen didn't exist, and one where he perhaps failed. We get a bit of a look at this during the episodes with Babylon 4 in the 3rd season where they say the Shadows still lost the war but preserved more ships letting them mobilise faster.

So ultimately I'd say Valen isn't essential but I'll probably keep him though used differently. I have the advantage of not needing to replace actors so I can keep Sinclair around for much longer and with a more useful role :)

I'm not going to throw away B4 either
 
I am not even sure if I am buying the idea pushed by the show in B4's time quest, that it's so essential to have central strategic command, so Minbari were dead without it.

If you need to concentrate your forces for major offensives, I guess, but Valen could simply teach them to think independently, use diversion tactics and asymetric warfare in general: but I see Vorlons not approving this cultural interference. Minbari Federation could then change into casteless spartan meritocracy.
Valen's role was 'simply' to toughen up Minbari enough to win that time, but without too much actual change of society.
 
As I read it the station served as a logistics hub to rally fleets for a defence of Minbar itself. Thanks to that they halted the enemy offensive, consolidated their forces and stayed in the war. Without it the Minbari would have survived but their homeworld would have been shot up and they'd be out of the war.
Does seem to have been a short term thing, it arrived exactly when it was needed to plug a gap in their last line of defence, but the war had like 12 more years of fighting after Valen showed up so I'd guess they used other assets afterwards.

Lot of the Valen mythos came after his death, apparently Sinclair worked very hard to keep himself normal and grounded and did all he could to not be an icon. But you know how it is with Vorlons :p
 
Vlad_Dracul89 said:
It bothers me how often Vorlons use cheat commands, but they are still considered less evil.
Click to expand...

It's the whole "our starships are fashioned from dead bodies repurposed into starship armor and they scream through space to show the cosmos how hardcore and edgy we are" that level of loud batshit insanity makes you easier to focus on.

The Vorlons and their cosmic autism is by comparison "more subtle" so they're mistaken as the lesser of the two evils.

I think they're arguably worse than the Shadows but eh.
 
Last edited:
The Whispering Monk said:
Don't know that I agree that Zack, at that point, wouldn't be able to restrain Vir's potential excesses. He did go to the mat with Garibaldi a time or two.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree, though I would argue there's a difference between him going to bat for a friend because that friend pole vaulted off the wagon and say knowing when to keep Vir from annexing shit or assassinating errant nobles.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top