Terthna
Professional Lurker
Can I assume, then, that you want alcohol and tobacco sellers to be shut down as well?
United States 2nd Amendment Legal Cases and Law Discussion
- Thread starter bullethead
- Start date
Here's a positive outcome for the 2nd Amendment and a blow to qualified immunity:
twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1333810665635635203
Basically, California cops melt most of a guy's gun collection while he was fighting to get the guns back without warning him they were thinking about doing that, so the cop responsible has zero qualified immunity and the gun owner can sue for damages.
twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1333810665635635203
Basically, California cops melt most of a guy's gun collection while he was fighting to get the guns back without warning him they were thinking about doing that, so the cop responsible has zero qualified immunity and the gun owner can sue for damages.
Worse than that, actually. The LAPD literally claimed they were still reviewing the evidence of ownership in compliance with a previous court order, while at the same time going to a different judge and claiming that the previous ownership dispute was completely resolved.
However, this is only a step forward and not a final victory; the cited court order reverses the summary judgement previously handed down, and allows this case to finally go to trial.
Floridaman
Well-known member
So is that a no on the idea of a store called the ATF which sells alcohol tobacco and firearms in the same buiilding?
No, because they are different. You can actually have people drink in moderation, and smoke in moderation without being too screwed up (tobacco less so). But pot rots the brain. It might not be a hard drug, but I don't think you can actually consume it in a moderate amount, for there is no moderate amount. And if you can properly vaporize tobacco, a lot of its issues disappear.
Floridaman
Well-known member
Meh if people want to hurt themselves I don't see why not, as long as noone else has to pay for it.
Evidence?
Floridaman
Well-known member
Regardless does the claim mean anything? People have the right to hurt themselves, should they so choose.
Doomsought
Well-known member
where other drugs have fairly blatant signs of damage all over, Pot seems to do mostly damage to the mind.
Huh. People always day it has helped them out in school. Idk. Never listen to pot heads
Outside of kids, that's not the case. And alcohol also screws up kids minds.
Ixian
Well-known member
You don't think the legalization of marijuana stops crime?
I'm not saying you are wrong, but when you look at the obvious example of the repeal of prohibition, and making the manufacturing and sale of alcohol legal again, it did a number on the organized crime networks of the day. Wouldn't it be likely that a federal legalization of marijuana have a similar effect on the Cartels and smaller dealers?
Edit: I've seen your follow up replies. Seems you dislike it in moral grounds mainly. Fair enough, but I don't think your moral opinion has much basis in fact.
I think pot-heads are evidence enough. Just look at Aqua Teen Hunger Force.
It has done nothing to stop the drug gangs importing it here. The problem is that the criminals can still do it more cheaply than anyone else, and now they have a veneer of legality. But it might vary from region to region, where I am it isn't cartels, it is drug gangs from East Asia. It probably depends on the time and the place, but legalizing can actually help criminals, because it makes them appear as legitimate businessmen.
I support decriminalization on moral grounds, my opinion is on pot is complicated. I think it is a viable compromise between clashing moral principles, so people can have their pot. It does have basis in actual observable fact, I think it is the other way around. As I joked above, look at stoners and that is all the proof you need. I have observed more functional smokers, or alcoholics than pot-heads.
Ixian
Well-known member
You must not be in the states then, because those states where it has been legalized recreationally, and is being sold in stores, have regulated it heavily.
Most of the grow houses in the US are owned by corporations who are heavily invested in the science of growing pot, producing better and smoother strains. Organized crime (and those smaller dealers) who were selling in the early 2000s and 90s have basically been pushed out by these companies. Mainly because their dirt weed from Mexico sucks, and for a little more cash, people can buy stuff ten times better. Not to mention that people feel safer buying from a well lit store than some rando in his car in a Walmart parking lot (or worse his shitty apartment).
Now you can still find some "private" unlicensed dealer in my state, but these are guys who have basically been growing pot for fun, for decades, and generally have no ties to the former organized crime dealers. Mostly they only sell to close friends and family, and have never "worked a corner".
So I'm afraid I don't really follow what you are saying. The Cartels certainly haven't thrown on a friendly business suit to start up chains of budhuts, they have just stopped selling pot because they can't compete with the legitimate corporations.
Well, I won't dismiss that it's possible that some criminals have went legit, but they certainly won't be doing any of the things they were doing when they were dealing out of backpacks, because one whiff of criminality in this new legal industry and they are done for. None of these corporations want to lose the cash cow that is legal marijuana, by gaining to much attention from the state government.
And the state is watching, very closely.
Floridaman
Well-known member
Ehh there have been a lot of instances where the organized crime one does stick around, for the same reason there are black market cigarettes, because when government gets involved it always drives up the price, creating a market for those who can get around it.
gral
Well-known member
One of the biggest, if not the biggest trafficking markets in the Triple Frontier(Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay) is the black-market cigarette trade. IIRC, it makes more money than drug smuggling over there.
Aqua Teen Hunger Force is A) fiction, and B) a random TV show on a niche channel. It doesn't constitute convincing evidence of anything.
The latter part is a joke. Stoners themselves are evidence enough of its effects. The fact that you and the people who agreed with you took something seriously that was meant to be a humorous addition is rather silly. I think the fact that we have a show about talking food doing random things is indicative of something.
Don't get me wrong, the show is so absurd that it is funny in that regard. Something reflective of modern life in that show.
The ATF is up to some huge shit, trying to make pistol braces illegal via incredibly vague and arbitrary rules. You have 17 days to tell them their stuff is full of shit, and try to keep it all unique, otherwise they'll just stack them together:
www.regulations.gov
Regulations.gov
www.regulations.gov