United States 2nd Amendment Legal Cases and Law Discussion

Cherico

Well-known member
I take a far less absolutist view on gun rights than most of y'all here, but I am 100% for applying absolute federal preemption to firearms rights and saying that *only* Congress has *any* authority to regulate firearms and ammunition in any way whatsoever.

I take a far more absolutist view because I'm jewish and I know damned well that if shit hits the fan the police wont do a fucking thing to stop people from murdering myself my family and my entire community.

And if you spent any time actually paying attention to the summer of mostly peaceful riots you should feel the same way.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
Like many legal regulations of today, they violate the principle of” innocent until proven guilty”.
Restrictions on weapons because of safety amount to “ You dirty peons have no agency so you must pay for the franchise to have them”
Example FFA tax stamps with $200 tax to apply for automatic weapon was set ~ 90 years ago. Back when $200 dollars was 3 months wages for average family.
Nothing says you are a dirty peon like you can not afford to be armed like your betters.
 
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bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Some interesting commentary on the likely outcome of Rahimi (the domestic violence gun removal case):
Article:
Judge Ho wrote a four-page concurrence. The introduction speaks to the dangerousness of constitutional rights more broadly, and Rahimi more precisely.
Violent criminals should be prosecuted, convicted, disarmed, and incarcerated. United States v. Rahimi, 61 F.4th 443, 463 (5th Cir. 2023) (Ho, J., concurring), cert. granted, 143 S. Ct. 2688 (2023). But we don't presume that citizens are dangerous criminals. We presume they're innocent. And to overcome that presumption, we require more than just notice and a hearing. We afford the accused with the assistance of counsel and a meaningful opportunity to present evidence and confront adverse witnesses. We impose a robust burden of proof on the government. And when in doubt, we err on the side of liberty. . . . I write separately to observe that the court grants relief, not because it is insensitive to domestic violence or the safety of Kersee's girlfriend, but because it is sensitive to the constitutional rights of the accused.

The emphasized sentence is important. In other contexts, the constitutional rights of the accused are not diminished because of what the accused may do with those rights. Those rights are protected in spite of what the accused may do with those rights. Judge Ho includes a string-cite that explains all of the ways that the Supreme Court has afforded broad constitutional protections to dangerous people:
The Supreme Court has repeatedly granted relief to dangerous criminals out of concern about the procedures used to determine their dangerousness. See, e.g., Ramos v. Louisiana, 140 S. Ct. 1390 (2020) (murder); United States v. Davis, 139 S. Ct. 2319 (2019) (violent felonies); Johnson v. United States, 576 U.S. 591 (2015) (armed career criminals); Crawford v. Washington, 541 U.S. 36 (2004) (assault and attempted murder); Maryland v. Craig, 497 U.S. 836 (1990) (sexual abuse of a child); Miranda v. Arizona, 384 U.S. 436 (1966) (kidnapping and rape); Gideon v. Wainwright, 372 U.S. 335 (1963) (burglary).

In these cases, the Supreme Court did not shy away from the constitutional right because the defendant was presumptively dangerous:
In none of these cases did the Supreme Court decline to uphold constitutional safeguards just because the defendant was credibly accused of a dangerous crime. If government must turn "square corners" when it comes to the removal of illegal aliens, Niz-Chavez v. Garland, 141 S. Ct. 1474, 1486 (2021), surely it must do the same when it comes to the basic rights of our own citizens.

In Rahimi, presumably, a majority of Justices will want to write that the Second Amendment rights must be taken away from people merely accused of being dangerous, even if they are not convicted, let alone indicted. I think that opinion will be harder to write than one may think. The Court will have to reconcile that holding with the cases in Judge Ho's string cite, and the cases I identified in my article. How will the Court explain why people convicted of violent crimes should be released onto the street due to the government's failure to comply with constitutional procedures, but a person who has not been convicted of anything will lose a constitutional right?

Of course, the Court can simply ignore the rest of the law and treat Rahimi as a one-off. This would be a salient point for any concurrence or dissent to point out. If members of the Court insist on treating the Second Amendment differently from all other rights, then they should address the inconsistencies with other areas of the law. And if the Court fails to address these other rights, then I think lower courts may rightly assume in future cases that other rights of dangerous people may likewise be curtailed, if "history and tradition" so provides. Bruen will not be decided in a vaccum.

One last point. I could imagine that a ruling in favor of Rahimi would result in a salutary change to process. If people accused of domestic violence are so dangerous, then they should be indicted and prosecuted for domestic violence. Perhaps a ruling for Rahimi will increase the number of domestic abusers who are put behind bars, rather than being allowed on the street where they can cause mayhem. Like Judge Ho said, "Violent criminals should be prosecuted, convicted, disarmed, and incarcerated."


Dunno if it'll shape the outcome of the case, but hopefully it'll get addressed by the Supreme Court in the final ruling and maybe affect the outcome of the non-felon case they're looking at.
 

PeaceMaker 03

Well-known member
Stupid peons your betters will tell you what liberties you are entitled too.

Now if you would just pay this brib…..we tax, you can have your liberties back. ( unless we deem your ungood).
 
California Sensitive Places Carry Ban ruled unconstitutional

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Reno May et al vs Bonta:


TL;DW:
-California's "sensitive places" gun-free zones declared unconstitutional under 2nd Amendment
-Couldn't have guns even with a CCW in those areas
-Preliminary injunction granted
-List of sensitive places was basically everywhere besides places that specifically allowed carry
-Cannot be enforced by the state
-Judge literally starts out with "We live in dangerous times... The right to self-defense and to defend one's family is fundamental and essential..."
-No bans on carry in a lot of places because of no analogies to 1790s laws
-Private actor laws are not applicable, because they're not state actors
-California's law was so broad that being in ANY place that served alcohol, even if you did not drink, was prohibited
-In the times of the Founding, people were ENCOURAGED to bring guns to sensitive areas that might be attacked
-Schools at the time of the Founding were NOT gun free zones, sometimes banned students from bringing guns
-Full ruling: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.898535/gov.uscourts.cacd.898535.45.0.pdf
 

ShadowArxxy

Well-known member
Comrade
In addition to being good news on its own merits, I think this ruling quite firmly refutes the idea that the 9th Circuit is blindly anti-gun.

On the other hand, keep in mind that despite the language of the ruling being quite broad, this is still only a preliminary injunction, and the court system is supposed to lean towards the side of "preventing harm" in such injunctions; in this case, that favors putting the law on hold rather than potentially letting the legal status whip back and forth.
 

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
In addition to being good news on its own merits, I think this ruling quite firmly refutes the idea that the 9th Circuit is blindly anti-gun.
The problem is that we know there are pro-gun judges on that circuit, but every ruling gets overturned en banc.

Judge Van Dyke on the 9th Circuit literally wrote out what the en banc panel's ruling would be in one case.
 

DarthOne

☦️
Americans Bought Nearly 16 Million Firearms Last Year in Defiance of Biden's Gun Control Push


The latest statistics for firearm sales is in, and they show that Americans bought nearly 16 million firearms in 2023 — despite Biden's gun control push.

According to the FBI's National Criminal Background Check System, 29,854,186 background checks were logged in 2023. This beats 2022, which saw 28,904,713 background checks, Guns.com reported on Thursday.

According to the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Americans purchased an estimated 15.8 million firearms in 2023, with 1,775,834 million purchases in December alone.

NSSF spokesperson Mark Oliva said that 24 states currently allow gun buyers to purchase additional firearms without having to go through another background check, so the actual number of sales is likely higher.

This latest data now brings a trend of over 1 million firearm purchases per month to 53 months in a row, Guns.com reported.

"By the millions for 50 months straight, law-abiding citizens are choosing to their right to keep and bear arms, despite the efforts of gun control politicians to enact laws to chill that right and others that issue unconstitutional edicts that deny that right," Oliva said in an email to the outlet in September.

"Lawful firearm possession is truly the determining factor of the American character – that we are a people of self-determination and not left to be victims of those who have no respect for life or law."

"Americans showed they want their Second Amendment rights by the millions — once again. These are solid figures that reflect the mood of Americans and the desire to exercise Second Amendment rights" Oliva said, regarding the latest data.

The data comes despite the Biden-Harris administration using a "'whole-of-government' approach" to limit the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens, Oliva said.

Oliva was encouraged by the data and expects sales to continue to rise going into 2024.

"These figures are encouraging for the firearm industry going into 2024. History indicates that background checks for the lawful sale of firearms typically rise during election years. This industry is ready to satisfy the demand for lawful firearm ownership in America," Oliva said, according to Analyzing America.

In 2023 alone, Americans experienced a slew of new restrictions on their Second Amendment rights and calls for even more restrictions.

In August, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms escalated it's efforts to strip gun dealers of their federal firearms licenses, pulling 122 federal firearms licenses from dealers in Fiscal Year 2023 alone.

The Biden administration also announced in December that it was taking "executive action" and will begin to work with states to create legislation that they think states should adopt to further restrict firearms.

The Gas-Operated Semi-Automatic Firearms Exclusion Act was also introduced in the Senate in December, which "addresses the lethal capacity weapons like the one used in Lewiston and most of the deadliest mass shootings across the country," The Hill reported.

The bill also seeks to ban magazines larger than 10 rounds, ban modifications such as bump stocks, and ban the manufacturing of ghost gun kits.

Despite the slew of new restrictions, Americans continue to support the Second Amendment, and that doesn't look like it's changing any time soon.


Apologies if this isn't the right thread for this.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
Americans Bought Nearly 16 Million Firearms Last Year in Defiance of Biden's Gun Control Push





Apologies if this isn't the right thread for this.

thats kind of the correct response to mass rioting and lawlessness and rules for thee but not for me.
 
Pennsylvania's Young Adult Carry Ban During States of Emergency Ruled Unconstitutional

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Didn't even know this was a thing:

Article:
FPC WIN: The Third Circuit has just ruled that Pennsylvania's young adult carry ban during states of emergencies violates the Second Amendment. Read the opinion here: https://firearmspolicy.org/lara
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New Mexico public carry ban on hold

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
New Mexico's governor keeps taking Ls:




Article:
LEGAL ALERT: A New Mexico federal judge has denied the governor's motion to stay the preliminary injunction against her public park carry ban, which means the ban cannot be enforced while her appeal continues at the Tenth Circuit.

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Article:
"Defendants assert or imply that by referencing the months of September and October in his declaration, Plaintiff was asserting he only attends parks in September and October, and no other time. The Court disagrees."

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Article:
"Defendants' arguments are contradictory. They cite to three shootings which occurred in Albuquerque parks before the public health order's ban on firearms in Albuquerque parks, as proof that a ban is necessary. However, those shootings occurred during what Defendants allege was a separate firearm ban imposed by the City of Albuquerque."

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FBI/NICS Update 2024 - ATF Town Hall

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
FBI/ATF statements from a Shot Show Presentation on NICS:

Article:
I’ll be live tweeting the “FBI/NICS Update - ATF Town Hall” at SHOT in 20 minutes. @FBI
@ATFHQ

Article:
NY has processed 13k background checks since they went to point of contact state.

Article:
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Article:
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Article:
NFA appeals process “mirrors” the regular firearms appeals process through NICS.

Article:
FBI is proposing two NPRMs on under 21 background checks and some type of employment background check. Did not say what the proposed rules would do.

Article:
Ammo checks are not a permissible use of NICS database.

Article:
They are doing some Q&A that isn’t that interesting.

Article:
Someone asked why does politics influence “4473 noncompliance”. FBI lady said she doesn’t think politics influences NICS job.

Article:
Someone asked about eforms. She said firearms transactions are prioritized over NFA backgrounds checks because there is a requirement under fed law and not a requirement for timeliness for NFA.
 
New Mexico "Gas Operated Semi-Auto" Ban Bill Analysis

bullethead

Part-time fanfic writer
Super Moderator
Staff Member
Update on New Mexico bill to ban semi-auto guns that use gas in their operating system:


Article:
A legislative analysis for the New Mexico bill to ban "gas-operated semiauto firearms" anticipates that it will cost over $450,000 to defend in court, while the public defender's office says it's concerned about "potential widespread noncompliance should [it] be enacted":
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Commentary on said bill:





Article:
The silver lining of New Mexico going all the way with a semiauto ban is the government lawyers can no longer gaslight judges by arguing this is just about "weapons of war", or hide behind it "only prohibiting certain features".

Instead, this wipes out most modern and popular firearms, and sets up for a precedent declaring such a move unconstitutional.

Article:
If this is expected to pass, I hope someone has a lawsuit and TRO ready the day it is signed.

Article:
And even if you get the worst judge ever, and then the worst appellate panel ever, a semiauto ban is huge SCOTUS bait. Especially if they are too timid to take an "assault weapons" case due to the controversy, but want to establish a hardware baseline in a less controversial case.

Article:
Under this moronic governor, New Mexico is intent on setting up the new "floor" of gun rights. They did it with "sensitive places" already, where SCOTUS said you can't just ban carry in an entire city, and Grisham tried it anyway (via a unilateral order, no less). Unsurprisingly, it was promptly struck down.

So going for a full semiauto ban is in character. Let's do it, and set up a baseline precedent to build on. ;-)
 

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