21st century battleship thought experiment

[Bacle]

Anything with ASW assets will be spamming that poor Sub. Torpedoes ASROCS, and Depth Charges

All true.

Which is why the attack against a battlegroup won't be done with conventional warheads from conventional subs.

After all, the Russians do have those 100MT Poseidon nuke-reactor-powered super-torps with unlimited range. They stuck a full sized Tsar Bomba on it's own nuclear sub, and call them tsunami bombs.

Any fight where people are actually going after US battlegroups is a fight where nukes are very much on the table.

 

[Zachowon]

All true.

Which is why the attack against a battlegroup won't be done with conventional warheads from conventional subs.

After all, the Russians do have those 100MT Poseidon nuke-reactor-powered super-torps with unlimited range. They stuck a full sized Tsar Bomba on it's own nuclear sub, and call them tsunami bombs.

Any fight where people are actually going after US battlegroups is a fight where nukes are very much on the table.

Uh...
Russia definitely does not have those.
Just like how they have not created portable body armor that can withstand 50 cal rounds.
It is called propaganda

 

[Bacle]

Uh...
Russia definitely does not have those.
Just like how they have not created portable body armor that can withstand 50 cal rounds.
It is called propaganda

I don't know, the stuff I saw about it showed a sub with a modified extra-large launching tube, and what was claimed to be a example of one of them. Russians call them Status-6, IIRC, and have them as another layer of deterrent that is far harder to intercept than ICBMs. I had always wondered what the Russians did with the knowledge gained from Tsar Bomba, and turning it into a torp when it wouldn't work as a gravity bomb just seems like a simple and smart way to reuse the weapons package.

These are the vids where I first heard about it:

 

[Zachowon]

I don't know, the stuff I saw about it showed a sub with a modified extra-large launching tube, and what was claimed to be a example of one of them. Russians call them Status-6, IIRC, and have them as another layer of deterrent that is far harder to intercept than ICBMs. I had always wondered what the Russians did with the knowledge gained from Tsar Bomba, and turning it into a torp when it wouldn't work as a gravity bomb just seems like a simple and smart way to reuse the weapons package.

These are the vids where I first heard about it:

One word: Propaganda...
Every country enemies of ours say they have things that are big and powerful

 

[Bacle]

One word: Propaganda...
Every country enemies of ours say they have things that are big and powerful

Hey, if it's only propaganda, that'd be nice, I just am not ready to dismiss it as that right now.

I mean I doubt they have Status-6's circling off our coast right now, but I'm not ready to dismiss that they are planning to stick these things on those subs. The concept and engineering is just too damn simple and straightforward (except the super-cav variant) for me to believe it's all JUST for propaganda purposes.

 

[Zachowon]

Hey, if it's only propaganda, that'd be nice, I just am not ready to dismiss it as that right now.

I mean I doubt they have Status-6's circling off our coast right now, but I'm not ready to dismiss that they are planning to stick these things on those subs. The concept and engineering is just too damn simple and straightforward (except the super-cav variant) for me to believe it's all JUST for propaganda purposes.

Don't beilive what Russians say...

 

[Aaron Fox]

Don't beilive what Russians say...

However, I wouldn't be surprised that they're working on or have something similar to what @Bacle said. Their strategic doctrine is literally a combination of pure unrelenting spite and 'from hell's heart I stab at thee!'.

 

[Zachowon]

However, I wouldn't be surprised that they're working on or have something similar to what @Bacle said. Their strategic doctrine is literally a combination of pure unrelenting spite and 'from hell's heart I stab at thee!'.

No, so not think they would do such a thing.
This is the same thingnqa thier 50 cal resistant armor that is not that heavy.

 

[Aaron Fox]

No, so not think they would do such a thing.
This is the same thingnqa thier 50 cal resistant armor that is not that heavy.

You would be right... before metal-foams and metal-foam composites existed. Now, with the fact that we've seen the data of .50cals up against metal foam composites and losing? I wouldn't be surprised if they do have such armor.

Remember, this is the same nation that used titanium in its infantry helmets.

 

[Zachowon]

You would be right... before metal-foams and metal-foam composites existed. Now, with the fact that we've seen the data of .50cals up against metal foam composites and losing? I wouldn't be surprised if they do have such armor.

Remember, this is the same nation that used titanium in its infantry helmets.

Except the US military will just switch to 50 AP and I doubt that kinda stuff can withstand that.
Also, I need evidence of this. And I also doubt they are also as effective as you are saying.
People have proven ypu wrong before

 

[Aaron Fox]

Except the US military will just switch to 50 AP and I doubt that kinda stuff can withstand that.
Also, I need evidence of this. And I also doubt they are also as effective as you are saying.
People have proven ypu wrong before

Actually, that was from NC State back in 2016.



One of the rounds they tested against the composite was an AP .50cal round... which cause minimal damage. I'll have to dig the scholarly article for it but... yeah, have fun with those implications.

 

[Captain X]

Huh. Wonder how much it would cost to make body armor from that.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Huh. Wonder how much it would cost to make body armor from that.

Well, you'll still need to have a kevlar-composite layer for things like spall, but given that aluminum metal-foam has options that include $98 from one company before shipping (~$150 with shipping) from a quick google...

... the only real problem (and probably the most expensive part) is getting the logistics assembled.

 

[Zachowon]

How viable is it if one was to be able to wear it? What is the pressure from the round hitting it?

 

[Aaron Fox]

How viable is it if one was to be able to wear it? What is the pressure from the round hitting it?

From what I remember of the paper, the metal foam and cubic boron nitride absorbed quite a bit of the energy of the impact. If I had to guess, it would be at least the same effects of a rifle-grade bullet hitting (modern) interceptor plate (i.e. alive but felt like having a mule kick you square in the chest).

 

[Zachowon]

From what I remember of the paper, the metal foam and cubic boron nitride absorbed quite a bit of the energy of the impact. If I had to guess, it would be at least the same effects of a rifle-grade bullet hitting (modern) interceptor plate (i.e. alive but felt like having a mule kick you square in the chest).

And has it ever been made to be easily mass produced, and put into modern body armor? As well as making it so it can withstand mtiple 50 hits.
Remember, if someone is firing a 50, it is most likely from and M2...

 

[Bear Ribs]

I'm wondering how thick that plate is. They kinda carefully skirt around mentioning that part in both the vid and the article, which triggered my weasel science sense. Though the article does say you need "less than an inch" to soak a 7.62 round. I tend to parse that as "just barely under an inch because if it was, like, three-quarters of an inch we would have gone with that, y'know?"

Given the disparity in energy between a 7.62 and a .50 round my best guess is that their plate was way too thick to be used in body armor and, though promising, that's why we haven't seen a new generation of .50-proof armor come out since 2006.

 

[Doomsought]

There are many many variables to the strength of a foam structure. Ultimately, it is best only one layer in a composite armor.