Confederate Flags banned in the Military

Cherico said:

Yeah but I'm saying that its been 7 fucking generations since slavery ended, the south is more then slavery and the people who exist there souldn't be tarred with the brush of shit that has been over for over for over 150 years, nor should they define themselves by it.

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Yes so the southern battleflag was used to represent southern identity most people who use it could care less about racism or what the flag historically meant but it was an organically made symbol representing the south again I’ve seen every kind of person own that flag. Plus the civil war left a cultural wound on the south a lot of people died and I remember being told stories about ancestors there’s a mythology in the south about it it’s something to separate us from the Yankees. I just can’t abided by all this destruction of our history and repression of culture

Cherico said:

Yeah but I'm saying that its been 7 fucking generations since slavery ended, the south is more then slavery and the people who exist there souldn't be tarred with the brush of shit that has been over for over for over 150 years, nor should they define themselves by it.

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Yeah, I'm not sure why the South clings to the Confederacy and it's legacy, when those were the worst years of its existence.

They should take pride in Southern cooking, in resilience demonstrated every time a hurricane hits, in things that help make this country great. Not in the insurrection they took part in to protect slavery and lost.

Bacle said:

Yeah, I'm not sure why the South clings to the Condeferacy and it's legacy, when those were the worst years of its existence.

They should take pride in Southern cooking, in resilience demonstrated every time a hurricane hits, in things that help make this country great. Not in the insurrection they took part in to protect slavery and lost.

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I visited New Orleans once, after eating at a few resturants I wondered how there were any thin people left.

And BBQ seriously we don't have anything in cali that comes close.

Floridaman said:

you mean before this people were allowed to have a flag, I would think decorating the barracks at all would be forbidden.

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As long as you dont have stuff considered Gang or similair, you can decorate your room. So no Gang stuff, No Nazi stuff, No confed flag, all that.

Cherico said:

I visited New Orleans once, after eating at a few resturants I wondered how there were any thin people left.

And BBQ seriously we don't have anything in cali that comes close.

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They are mostly Blue Collar workers

Bacle said:

Yeah, I'm not sure why the South clings to the Condeferacy and it's legacy, when those were the worst years of its existence.

They should take pride in Southern cooking, in resilience demonstrated every time a hurricane hits, in things that help make this country great. Not in the insurrection they took part in to protect slavery and lost.

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Bit every single soldier that fought was protecting slaves, defending thier land was what a lot of small land owners fought for. Why control what people take pride in if it units them to do good for the country? The largest areas where Soldiers come from and Military in general is the south...

Also, General Sherman is known as a Monster in the south for what he did to GA, so like in all wars, no side is pperfect

Cherico said:

I visited New Orleans once, after eating at a few resturants I wondered how there were any thin people left.

And BBQ seriously we don't have anything in cali that comes close.

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I'm convinced that if we could export borboun-pecan pie and pit bbq en masse, we could achieve world peace.

The South keeps taking pride in the wrong damn things.

Bacle said:

I'm convinced that if we could export borboun-pecan pie and pit bbq en masse, we could achieve world peace.

The South keeps taking pride in the wrong damn things.

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We take pride in everything of ours, from Muddin, Huntin, gun ownin, Good food Makin, truck Lovin, Murica lovin south.

Most like the flag and have pride in the Country, even with the Confederate flag not meaning America, but they often use it to represent it.

Zachowon said:

As long as you dont have stuff considered Gang or similair, you can decorate your room. So no Gang stuff, No Nazi stuff, No confed flag, all that.

They are mostly Blue Collar workers

Bit every single soldier that fought was protecting slaves, defending thier land was what a lot of small land owners fought for. Why control what people take pride in if it units them to do good for the country? The largest areas where Soldiers come from and Military in general is the south...

Also, General Sherman is known as a Monster in the south for what he did to GA, so like in all wars, no side is pperfect

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I get there are a lot of vets from the South, and they can be proud to be from the South without being proud of the Confederacy, or displaying it's symbols.

Also, Sherman understood that ending the war fast via his destructive march was the lesser evil than a conventional, slogging campaign. It's the same cold logic that made us willing to use the A-bombs after grinding butchery on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Bacle said:

I get there are a lot of vets from the South, and they can be proud to be from the South without being proud of the Confederacy, or displaying it's symbols.

Also, Sherman understood that ending the war fast via his destructive march was the lesser evil than a conventional, slogging campaign. It's the same cold logic that made us willing to use the A-bombs after grinding butchery on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

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If your defending Sherman I don’t know many southerners who would care about listening to anything else you said about anything.


Also is ancestor worship that hard to understand? Because that’s where a lot of this friction is coming from these symbols have evolved past just being history they have their own myths ghost stories and legends your stomping on a belief system here even if a lot of people won’t recognize it as such

Zachowon said:

Most like the flag and have pride in the Country, even with the Confederate flag not meaning America, but they often use it to represent it.

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This is the problem: The Confederate flag should never been seen as patriotic symbol or representation of the US in foreign lands or even semi-serious ways.

Do you all get that the veneration of the Confederate flag, in conjunction with the Lost Cause mythology, is a large part of why we have racial tensions that other countries can exploit in modern times?

hyperspacewizard said:

If your defending Sherman I don’t know many southerners who would care about listening to anything else you said about anything.

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Tough shit, because if you all want to retain any political power, you need people in the center like me and others who don't care if we offend Southern Pride or Lost Cause sensibilities.

Cherico said:

what I don't get is why the south is so obessed with the confederacy. It was less then 5 years of the south's history.

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The South's perception of the conflict is skewered that's why, the reason is that the average southerner for over a hundred and fifty years has been told that it's the 'South's symbol' and thus a symbol of themselves the problem with that is the South of 1861 and now might as well be another planet Hank Williams Jr puts this attitude in this song which sums it up pretty well.


The best way I ever heard it put is that the ACW started when two brothers who had a multitude of disagreements walked into a bar and the younger got drunk and started harassing his elder who though morally upstanding had always been a little arrogant about it, long story short it ends in a fight were the elder eventually prevails but not before reviving a extremely bloody nose.

The above paragraph and song are how the modern South see's the ACW, as a football game. That we started it? Irrelevant. That we were on the wrong side morally? Who cares? That we ultimately lost? We don't see that, all we remember is that we beat the face in of the people in who have been mocking us for having a different way of life ever since segregation ended and always has some other dang excuse to complain about the way we live from 'Racist!' to 'You backward people need to learn to adapt'.

When Southerners look at the Confederate flag now, they don't see the flag as standing for the Confederacy as it was in 1861 they see it as the South is now. Sweet Tea, NASCAR, Fishing, Hunting, BBQ, Footballl and many other things. So when people go after the flags or statues of the Confederacy they view it as being a attack on their culture as it is now and another means by which the bitter liberal people whom they gave that bloody nose that time seeks to take even the memory from them before systematically eradicating their conservative culture.

So it's not for any love of the confederate government or their policies that a majority fly that flag today rather their culture as they see.

Cherico said:

nor should they define themselves by it.

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As I have stated above you got it mixed up, they don't define themselves by the flag, they think the flag defines them.

Again not defending the confederacy's actions here, rather explaining the general census as I have seen it.

Bacle said:

I get there are a lot of vets from the South, and they can be proud to be from the South without being proud of the Confederacy, or displaying it's symbols.

Also, Sherman understood that ending the war fast via his destructive march was the lesser evil than a conventional, slogging campaign. It's the same cold logic that made us willing to use the A-bombs after grinding butchery on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

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Sherman's troops raped and burned and murdered many GA, as someone Born in Ohio and a huge fan of both Grant and Sherman, Sherman was not a good guy

hyperspacewizard said:

If your defending Sherman I don’t know many southerners who would care about listening to anything else you said about anything.


Also is ancestor worship that hard to understand? Because that’s where a lot of this friction is coming from these symbols have evolved past just being history they have their own myths ghost stories and legends your stomping on a belief system here even if a lot of people won’t recognize it as such

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There is also this

Bacle said:

This is the problem: The Confederate flag should never been seen as patriotic symbol or representation of the US in foreign lands or even semi-serious ways.

Do you all get that the veneration of the Confederate flag, in conjunction with the Lost Cause mythology, is a large part of why we have racial tensions that other countries can exploit in modern times?
Tough shit, because if you all want to retain any political power, you need people in the center like me and others who don't care if we offend Southern Pride or Lost Cause sensibilities.

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Fallout-Man101 said:

The South's perception of the conflict is skewered that's why, the reason is that the average southerner for over a hundred and fifty years has been told that it's the 'South's symbol' and thus a symbol of themselves the problem with that is the South of 1861 and now might as well be another world Hank Williams Jr puts this attitude this song which explains it.


The best way I ever heard it put is that the ACW started when two brothers who had a multitude of disagreements walked into a bar and the younger got drunk and started harassing his elder who though morally upstanding had always been a little arrogant about it, long story short it ends in a fight were the elder eventually prevails but not before reviving a extremely bloody nose.

The above paragraph and song are how the modern South see's the ACW, as a football game. That we started it? Irrelevant. That we were on the wrong side morally? Who cares? That we ultimately lost? We don't see that, all we remember is that we beat the face in of the people in who have been mocking us for having a different way of life ever since segregation ended and always has some other dang excuse to complain about from 'Racist!' to 'You backward people need to learn to adapt'.

When Southerners look at the Confederate flag now, they don't see the flag as standing for the Confederacy as it was in 1861 they see it as the South is now. Sweet Tea, NASCAR, Fishing, Hunting, BBQ, Footballl and many other things. So when people go after the flags or statues of the Confederacy they view it as being a attack on their culture as it is now and another means by which the bitter people whom they gave that bloody nose that time seeks to take even the memory from them before systematically eradicating their conservative culture.

So it's not for any love of the confederate government or their policies that a majority fly that flag today rather their culture as they see.

As I have stated above you got it mixed up, they don't define themselves by the flag, they think the flag defines them.

Again not defending the confederacy's actions here, rather explaining the general census as I have seen it.

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FALLOUT has a very good point, and is very true. The modern south uses the Confederate Flag to represent the Modern American South, and the Murica fuck yeah energy from it.

I grew up around it a lot, I know plenty of people from diffrent religions, skin color, and multiple history freaks like me not giving a shit and no being treated diffrently, and often having one themselves. Because it represents the Modern south, the Modern way of life for those in the south...

Fallout-Man101 said:

As I have stated above you got it mixed up, they don't define themselves by the flag, they think the flag defines them.

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That's their problem, and more and more of the country is fed up with humoring them on the issue.

The South better find a way to define themselves another way, because if they cling to that Confederate flag they will lose more and more support in the center in other parts of the US.

My family fought against the Confederacy as spies for the Union, so I have no problem crushing pride in the Confederacy for the good of the nation.

Zachowon said:

Sherman's troops raped and burned and murdered many GA, as someone Born in Ohio and a huge fan of both Grant and Sherman, Sherman was not a good guy



There is also this





FALLOUT has a very good point, and is very true. The modern south uses the Confederate Flag to represent the Modern American South, and the Murica fuck yeah energy from it.



I grew up around it a lot, I know plenty of people from diffrent religions, skin color, and multiple history freaks like me not giving a shit and no being treated diffrently, and often having one themselves. Because it represents the Modern south, the Modern way of life for those in the south...

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I get veneration of the Confederate flag as a short hand for 'fuck the libs', as local hertiage issue, and that it has a lot of history tied to it beyond the Civil War.

What I'm saying is, that most of that does not matter in modern political discourse, because a lot of the rest of the country isn't scared to offend Lost Cause sensibilities when it comes to Confederate symbols anymore.

Bacle said:

Also, Sherman understood that ending the war fast via his destructive march was the lesser evil than a conventional, slogging campaign. It's the same cold logic that made us willing to use the A-bombs after grinding butchery on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

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More terrible comparisons. Good grief.

Shermans March wasn't unique in destruction of property but in solely because it was done independent od supply lines. Union (and Confederate) armies always foraged and looted and pillaged during their campaigns. Sherman's March to the Sea wasn't unique for the cool pillaging and city burning but because he sustained the offensive maneuver independent of supply lines.

The reason it wasn't a slogging match campaign was because General Hood had a far more horrible strategy in mind then pursuing Sherman.

Also comparing it to the Atomic Bombs is pretty shallow. While both targeted civilian infrastructure Sherman's March was surprisingly light on civilian casualties while the Bombing of Japan treated civilian deaths as a nice bonus side effect.

Bacle said:

That's their problem, and more and more of the country is fed up with humoring them on the issue.

The South better find a way to define themselves another way, because if they cling to that Confederate flag they will lose more and more support in the center in other parts of the US.

My family fought against the Confederacy as spies for the Union, so I have no problem crushing pride in the Confederacy for the good of the nation.

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So groups that use the reverse Swastika should fond another symbol because of one person using a similar thing? There are various reasons people can do what they do, redefining a flag, or a symbol is fine.

It can mean ome thing at one point, and then can be changed in the future if there is enough support

Husky_Khan said:

More terrible comparisons. Good grief.

Shermans March wasn't unique in destruction of property but in solely because it was done independent od supply lines. Union (and Confederate) armies always foraged and looted and pillaged during their campaigns. Sherman's March to the Sea wasn't unique for the cool pillaging and city burning but because he sustained the offensive maneuver independent of supply lines.

The reason it wasn't a slogging match campaign was because General Hood had a far more horrible strategy in mind then pursuing Sherman.

Also comparing it to the Atomic Bombs is pretty shallow. While both targeted civilian infrastructure Sherman's March was surprisingly light on civilian casualties while the Bombing of Japan treated civilian deaths as a nice bonus side effect.

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He burned cities down but generally left people alive.

The city I grew up in in GA was one if the cities burned to the ground, as the Gov was from Canton Ga during the Civil War.

Bacle said:

That's their problem, and more and more of the country is fed up with humoring them on the issue.

The South better find a way to define themselves another way, because if they cling to that Confederate flag they will lose more and more support in the center in other parts of the US.

My family fought against the Confederacy as spies for the Union, so I have no problem crushing pride in the Confederacy for the good of the nation.

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Your good of the nation rhetoric is divisive and plays right into these antifa college educated communist playbook. This isn’t window dressing this is southern culture you acting arrogant and moral high horsing marks you as a typical yankee you Opinion is worth less than a cow nugget. No more saying sorry no more retreating I am not a monster for loving my ancestors and my culture.

Zachowon said:

So groups that use the reverse Swastika should fond another symbol because of one person using a similar thing? There are various reasons people can do what they do, redefining a flag, or a symbol is fine.

It can mean ome thing at one point, and then can be changed in the future if there is enough support

He burned cities down but generally left people alive.

The city I grew up in in GA was one if the cities burned to the ground, as the Gov was from Canton Ga during the Civil War.

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I think the swastika was an eastern religious symbol hijacked by the Nazi's, as were Norse symbols.

That's a thorny issue, and I can see arguments both ways on those symbols because they were hijacked.

The Confederate flag was never hijacked, it still stands for the same thing it did initially, at least to the majority of the country.

hyperspacewizard said:

Your good of the nation rhetoric is divisive and plays right into these antifa college educated communist playbook. This isn’t window dressing this is southern culture you acting arrogant and moral high horsing marks you as a typical yankee you Opinion is worth less than a cow nugget. No more saying sorry no more retreating I am not a monster for loving my ancestors and my culture.

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If you think my rhetoric is 'divisive' because it doesn't humor the Lost Cause mythology, you are the problem, not my rhetoric.

Also, this is American rhetoric, not 'Yankee' rhetoric.

Bacle said:

Do you all get that the veneration of the Confederate flag, in conjunction with the Lost Cause mythology, is a large part of why we have racial tensions that other countries can exploit in modern times?

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Wrong. These things do a little bit to enflame racial tensions. It's not unrelated, but it's so peripheral that it barely matters.

The main cause of continuing racial tensions? The unrelenting, deliberate, vicious preaching of racial hatred by hard-leftists, black supremacists, and academics who are trying to foment division and unrest for their political advantage.

The recent spate of riots has little to nothing to do with what has actually happened. We still don't even know if Chauvin was motivated by racism in what he did to George Floyd. Given no evidence of him having racist leanings has emerged yet, I'd think it's unlikely, but we just don't know.

The reason for things being so bad now, is because active attempts to make it so by leftist ideologues who need to keep the black vote firmly in their corner if they want to win any real amount of Federal power in the next 20 years.

Bacle said:

That's their problem, and more and more of the country is fed up with humoring them on the issue.

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Bacle said:

The South better find a way to define themselves another way, because if they cling to that Confederate flag they will lose more and more support in the center in other parts of the US.

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The problem is that that as long as it's people like AOC, Clinton or Pelosi being the main backers they aren't going to give in on the issue arguably the best way the fix misunderstanding's about the CSA isn't to make it a forbidden fruit that only temp but through a slow and non-patronizing way the South has arguably come along way slowly since segregation ended as far as shutting down racism and it didn't require riots to do so rather change came about slowly at it's own speed forcing this issue is one of the reasons that progress has been halted.

As for the South defining themselves another way I am all for someone making a new Southern flag free of influence by the ACW but the second I or anybody else do someone will scream racist because what else could a flag representing Southern culture be but that?

Bacle said:

My family fought against the Confederacy as spies for the Union, so I have no problem crushing pride in the Confederacy for the good of the nation.

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And this is relevant how? (No offense, I am just wondering if this is a explanation of your attitude or you just wanting to bring it up to.)

LordsFire said:

Wrong. These things do a little bit to enflame racial tensions. It's not unrelated, but it's so peripheral that it barely matters.

The main cause of continuing racial tensions? The unrelenting, deliberate, vicious preaching of racial hatred by hard-leftists, black supremacists, and academics who are trying to foment division and unrest for their political advantage.

The recent spate of riots has little to nothing to do with what has actually happened. We still don't even know if Chauvin was motivated by racism in what he did to George Floyd. Given no evidence of him having racist leanings has emerged yet, I'd think it's unlikely, but we just don't know.

The reason for things being so bad now, is because active attempts to make it so by leftist ideologues who need to keep the black vote firmly in their corner if they want to win any real amount of Federal power in the next 20 years.

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I was taking about the last 40 or 50 so year, a long view of why there were racial tensions to exploit in the first place, after the Civil Rights Act went into force.

The riots now are mostly the fault of the Far-Left. But the Far-Left gained power partly because of conservative defense of Confederate symbols and silence on the Lost Cause mythology made it easy to paint them that way.

Fallout-Man101 said:

The problem is that that as long as it's people like AOC, Clinton or Pelosi being the main backers they aren't going to give in on the issue arguably the best way the fix misunderstanding's about the CSA isn't to make it a forbidden fruit that only temp but through a slow and non-patronizing way the South has arguably come along way slowly since segregation ended as far as shutting down racism and it didn't require riots to do so rather change came about slowly at it's own speed forcing this issue is one of the reasons that progress has been halted.

As for the South defining themselves another way I am all for someone making a new Southern flag free of influence by the ACW but the second I or anybody else do someone will scream racist because what else could a flag representing Southern culture be but that?

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There are parts of the Dems equation that do make the needed measures and time difficult to achieve.

However, you need to dial back acting like it's the South that gets to set the conditions on this issue or has the larger amount of leverage. Those defending Confederate symbols and pride in it need to justify it to the rest of the country, not the other way around.

Fallout-Man101 said:

And this is relevant how? (No offense, I am just wondering if this is a explanation of your attitude or you just wanting to bring it up to.)

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Because it seems like those so gung-ho to defend and excuse the Confederate flag with appeals to 'muh local history and family heritage' give few damns about the feelings of those who ancestors fought to defeat it and are tired of it's legacy still causing us problems.

Fallout-Man101 said:

When Southerners look at the Confederate flag now, they don't see the flag as standing for the Confederacy as it was in 1861 they see it as the South is now. Sweet Tea, NASCAR, Fishing, Hunting, BBQ, Footballl and many other things. So when people go after the flags or statues of the Confederacy they view it as being a attack on their culture as it is now and another means by which the bitter liberal people whom they gave that bloody nose that time seeks to take even the memory from them before systematically eradicating their conservative culture.

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I wouldn't even say just the south any more, it is a symbol of the rural working class. The symbol of woodcutters, factory workers, ditch diggers and farm hands.