The main difference between the two merely being only two centuries of history in a majority unrepresented country and continent.
Rhodesia thread
- Thread starter Duke Nukem
- Start date
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
What happened to Rhodesia was a damned disgrace by the sound of it. I can never approve of apartheid governments but good grief there are oh so many ways to make things worse. Did no one ever consider 'partition' as an idea for resolving this situation? I'm a little foggy on what became of Rhodesia.
PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Rhodesia was renamed Zimbabve, country known for starvation and rampant hyperinflation, courtesy of UN (and USA, UK, USSR, North Korea...) approved ruler Robert Mugabe. Partition was impossibel because there was no white part of the country.
prinCZess
Warrior, Writer, Performer, Perv
Rhodesia was a cluster of converging screw-ups and human awfulness it's nigh-impossible to cover briefly and nostalgic waxing about it suffers the same issues (especially internationally) that those waxing about the good ol' days of apartheid in South Africa suffers from. Ian Smith's government suffered from, at the absolute and most pollyanne-ish best, the obvious goal to maintain minority-white control and power in a long-haul 'transition' to more democratic form that could easily be slow-rolled and abused by said minority-white controlling interest (the settlement reached is more defensible from this perspective, but not without gaping problems of its own in similar but not identical vein). The UKs treatment and relation in the matter--as it so often was throughout decolonialization--was a garbage-pile from top to bottom both in the lead-up to Rhodesia's declaration of independence and (perhaps even more-so...somehow) in attempts at talks between the beliggerents of the Bush War, and the international reticence to recognize or approach Muzorewa and the settlement-government a(nother) case of African problems invoking shrugs from the rest of the world in a case where pragmatism and seemingly-legitimate progress on the racial front went ignored, and Mugabe was essentially allowed to threaten and intimidate his way into power in the same way everyone's lofty rhetoric alleged they didn't want from any of the screwed-up, awful participants of the Bush War.
Shitshow from beginning to end that doesn't get alleviated by the shitshow from beginning to end that followed under Mugabe in the form of Zimbabwe.
Shitshow from beginning to end that doesn't get alleviated by the shitshow from beginning to end that followed under Mugabe in the form of Zimbabwe.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
It was inevitable.
Regardless of skin color the country who becomes stronger and learning from their ancestors if they're former Empire builders will look to expand outward.
Your founding fathers were a product of that system.
I just wish many in Europe won't complain about the very predictable after effect. When you bust up an mess up a whole bunch of different cultures in a whole continent. Don't be so surprised when those places turn into a shit show. If what was done to the African Continent was done to Europe. Europe would be in the same way. Shoot just look a the Balkains for a small scale example.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Ah the Balkans when the Turks started coming to live there and there's the people who converted or resisted conversion.
Other minority groups I know are just as fucked from all the games countries play. Rohingya thanks to Britain needing cheap labor is part of the mess.
I could do with a book to see what that would look like.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
Colonialism was going to happen when Europeans leapt ahead of Africa and the rest of the world technologically.
The only way it doesn't happen is...Europe is technologically stagnant for some reason and someone else takes over the world, or non European cultures kept technological parity and thus their independence. Which is unlikely in the extreme.
It also began well before the scramble in the late 19th century, arguably the first Portuguese trading posts can be seen as the start of European colonialism.
As for Rhodesia-white minority rule was probably unsustainable without foreign support. Which neither the US nor Britain were going to give.
The Name of Love
Far Right Nutjob
You were only going to have a white-ruled Rhodesia if you didn't have democracy, and the democratic nations of the world would've never allowed that. Supporters of democracy are ideologues.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
The more funny fact is how after driving white farmers off and fucking their farms, they still need to export food made by white farmers from the African countries that accepted them.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
I wonder what popular government idea will be all the rage in the next century or so.
The Name of Love
Far Right Nutjob
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
If the first fifth of the 21st century has taught us anything, its that democracy is not the magical panacea it was cracked up to be in 1991.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
We got a thread for that yet?
I think the current Global mess has proven just because you could doesn't mean you should.
D
Deleted member
Guest
@The Name of Love The American Revolution was immoral when it happened, it was just that the Founding Fathers were granted enough wisdom to create a Republic which could give more than a century of prosperity and liberty out of the ashes of our old English liberties and traditions.
As for the point about Rhodesia -- while democracy is neither necessary nor desirable, you cannot, as 1% of the population, maintain rule over an alien people comprising 99% of the population, without falling into immorality. Ask the crusaders, the Normans in Sicily, the Qing in China. The whites in Rhodesia were just one more mirage of a ruling class separate and distinct from the people it rules and unaccountable to them by traditional custom, and they fell harder and faster than most, to be frank.
As for the point about Rhodesia -- while democracy is neither necessary nor desirable, you cannot, as 1% of the population, maintain rule over an alien people comprising 99% of the population, without falling into immorality. Ask the crusaders, the Normans in Sicily, the Qing in China. The whites in Rhodesia were just one more mirage of a ruling class separate and distinct from the people it rules and unaccountable to them by traditional custom, and they fell harder and faster than most, to be frank.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
I wouldn't know about the others but the Qing lasted a long time until like every dynasty's decline.
I will just point out this will be fixed when some outside groups teach them modern farming practices. There is already groups talking about doing just that so don't laugh long.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
When it happens it'll happen. We just don't know when.
Or there'll be another war somewhere nearby to fuck things up again.
Or another disaster.