Rhodesia thread

[Duke Nukem]

So what do you guys think of Rhodesia was it Good/Bad?

Personally I think it could have been the most prosperous countries in Africa for whites and blacks, it's a shame the Commies ruined it.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The Rhodesians in their Bush War had some of the most epic and lopsided victories in the History of Warfare.

Operation Dingo is amazing enough to read but Operation Eland was such a well executed Special Forces mission that resulted in such disproportionate casualties that the Black Maoists tried to pass it off as a massacre of civilians.

 

[Lanmandragon]

They were idiots for removing all the actual farmers for "diversity" or whatever. As well as just printing money like if was going out of style. Other then that I don't really know much About Zimbabwe/Rhodesia.

The Rhodesians in their Bush War had some of the most epic and lopsided victories in the History of Warfare.

Operation Dingo is amazing enough to read but Operation Eland was such a well executed Special Forces mission that resulted in such disproportionate casualties that the Black Maoists tried to pass it off as a massacre of civilians.

. That sounds awesome got any links?

 

[Husky_Khan]

. That sounds awesome got any links?

http://www.rhodesiansoldier.com/hist-bush-war-nyadzonya.html

The Wikipedia link on it cribs from the book it uses as a reference so it's pretty decent as well.

 

[Deleted member]

The dirty secret nobody wants you to know about Rhodesia is that the government transferred power to the indigenous Africans voluntarily, but that wasn't good enough, they were forced to hand it over specifically to the communist rebels, who then destroyed the country. The international community overthrew the democratically elected Bishop Muzorewa and abrogated the internal power sharing agreements to force Mugabe to power.

P.S. Mugabe then imprisoned Bishop Muzorewa for daring to visit Israel and suggesting that recognising Israel could lead to investment which would help keep Zimbabwe from economically collapsing.

 

[Cherico]

Rhodesia was in my opinion a case of the UN fucking things up because they didn't understand the players on the ground or all of the relavent facts.

Eritrea in my opinion was a worse example of a UN fuck up, the creation of that country deprived Ethopia of its sea access and also created one of the worst countries on the planet. They were literally better off as a part of Ethopia then being the despotic hell hole it is now.

To many people just do not get that just because some ones an underdog it doesn't mean their not psychotic assholes who deserve to lose.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Let us not forget their fuckups in Liberia and Sierra Leone as well, they prolonged bloodshed for years.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Another example of outside interference fucking up a country.

Now they're hungry and depend on gibs.





Behold blacks serving in the Rhodesian armed forces. Apartheid my ass.

The dirty secret nobody wants you to know about Rhodesia is that the government transferred power to the indigenous Africans voluntarily, but that wasn't good enough, they were forced to hand it over specifically to the communist rebels, who then destroyed the country. The international community overthrew the democratically elected Bishop Muzorewa and abrogated the internal power sharing agreements to force Mugabe to power.

P.S. Mugabe then imprisoned Bishop Muzorewa for daring to visit Israel and suggesting that recognising Israel could lead to investment which would help keep Zimbabwe from economically collapsing.

I wish I knew the whole truth on why they allowed it to happen. Was it intentional to maintain Africa's shithole status? There's something more to Africa than what is officially known.

So what do you guys think of Rhodesia was it Good/Bad?

This meme sums it up with close enough facts.

 

[Tryglaw]

I wish I knew the whole truth on why they allowed it to happen. Was it intentional to maintain Africa's shithole status? There's something more to Africa than what is officially known.

As an old saying goes, "if you don't know what's this about, it's about money". Impoverished, indebted Africa is easy to keep under thumb by various interests - financial, mining ect. Wealthy one not so much, as it would be in far better position to set more equitable terms, instead of "do as EXXON / Shell / whatever tells you or we'll pull the aid and loans and won't offer any new ones."

Food for thought:

Keeping Africa On the Brink of Starvation

Billions of desert locusts have descended again on East Africa.

townhall.com

"Agro-Ecology" campaign enshrines primitive agriculture and malnutrition as human rights | CFACT

It essentially asserts that indigenous, traditional farmers must be shielded from market forces and modern technologies, so that they can continue using ancient, primitive, “culturally appropriate” methods.

www.cfact.org

 

[Arch Dornan]

As an old saying goes, "if you don't know what's this about, it's about money". Impoverished, indebted Africa is easy to keep under thumb by various interests - financial, mining ect. Wealthy one not so much, as it would be in far better position to set more equitable terms, instead of "do as EXXON / Shell / whatever tells you or we'll pull the aid and loans and won't offer any new ones."

Food for thought:

Keeping Africa On the Brink of Starvation

Billions of desert locusts have descended again on East Africa.

townhall.com

"Agro-Ecology" campaign enshrines primitive agriculture and malnutrition as human rights | CFACT

It essentially asserts that indigenous, traditional farmers must be shielded from market forces and modern technologies, so that they can continue using ancient, primitive, “culturally appropriate” methods.

www.cfact.org

Fucking typical.

Before it was the colonial strategy of open colonies, now because Ian Smith who risked his life to fight the Nazis was rewarded to see the land he loved gone because the game plan has switched he and those who lived there was deemed disposable and embarrassments.

 

[Tryglaw]

Fucking typical.

Before it was the colonial strategy of open colonies, now because Ian Smith who risked his life to fight the Nazis was rewarded to see the land he loved gone because the game plan has switched he and those who lived there was deemed disposable and embarrassments.

In other words, "business as usual" in the democratic West.

 

[Arch Dornan]

In other words, "business as usual" in the democratic West.

Not just the West, the world from the people in the open and behind the scenes.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

In other words, "business as usual" in the democratic West.

Money aside, I think there's a problem that too many people who want to "help" are idiotic ideologues who don't really know so much in-terms of actual politics & economics, let alone the politics and economics to those specific areas

 

[Tryglaw]

Not just the West, the world from the people in the open and behind the scenes.

That too, but for the longest time it was the West that set the tone in Africa, divided and conquered ever since (or even before) the Scramble for Africa began, and a lot of the issues Africa faces now can be traced to colonisation / decolonisation.

 

[Arch Dornan]

That too, but for the longest time it was the West that set the tone in Africa, divided and conquered ever since (or even before) the Scramble for Africa began, and a lot of the issues Africa faces now can be traced to colonisation / decolonisation.

And it will continue for a long time. Whatever the person's skin color if they're corrupt the country will suffer.

What a mess but that's geopolitics for you and Africa the playground for many outsiders to find opportunities.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's relatively uncomplicated to say that the Rhodesian government was racist and immoral, but that their willingness to transfer power to Bishop Muzorewa was sincere and that the power sharing agreements were a peaceful, constitutional means of giving indigenous Africans a fair and equitable say in their own governance, and that the overthrow of Muzorewa's government was a moral crime by the international community. While I don't support the previous racist Rhodesian government, the intentional overthrow of Muzorewa to help bring Mugabe to power was an action of communist influence inside the western governments and the UN which completely destroyed Rhodesia-Zimbabwe.

 

[Arch Dornan]

@Tyanna of Pentos do you think the communists of Malaya would do the same if they suceeded despite Commonwealth support?

 

[The Name of Love]

I think it's relatively uncomplicated to say that the Rhodesian government was racist and immoral, but that their willingness to transfer power to Bishop Muzorewa was sincere and that the power sharing agreements were a peaceful, constitutional means of giving indigenous Africans a fair and equitable say in their own governance, and that the overthrow of Muzorewa's government was a moral crime by the international community. While I don't support the previous racist Rhodesian government, the intentional overthrow of Muzorewa to help bring Mugabe to power was an action of communist influence inside the western governments and the UN which completely destroyed Rhodesia-Zimbabwe.

It's "uncomplicated" to say that, but it isn't accurate.

 

[Deleted member]

It's "uncomplicated" to say that, but it isn't accurate.

The Rhodesians rebelled against their rightful authority with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence, disenfranchised the majority of their population, survived about twenty years, and then collapsed. Their state failed, they were expelled from it. In objective terms it was perhaps worse than a crime; it was a mistake. The international community intentionally helped bring that about by taking down Bishop Muzorewa's government but if Rhodesia had only taken concrete steps toward the future Muzorewa offered back before the UDI, then it would have never been in a place where the international community could do that.

 

[The Name of Love]

The Rhodesians rebelled against their rightful authority with the Unilateral Declaration of Independence, disenfranchised the majority of their population, survived about twenty years, and then collapsed. Their state failed, they were expelled from it. In objective terms it was perhaps worse than a crime; it was a mistake. The international community intentionally helped bring that about by taking down Bishop Muzorewa's government but if Rhodesia had only taken concrete steps toward the future Muzorewa offered back before the UDI, then it would have never been in a place where the international community could do that.

Such an argument could have been made against the American Revolution. Rhodesia was just another example of typical English behavior.