Surely capitans of a platoon (about 40 people) know strategic information about the state of the military.
Dude, get a fucking braincell, your last one died.
Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
Dude, get a fucking braincell, your last one died.
History Learner
Well-known member
You ignored the part he was personally promoted by the Commander and Chief of the AFU, which makes sense given as a former Minister of the Interior, he is well connected:
In early 2023, Lutsenko was promoted to the rank of Kapitan.[10] On 20 February 2023 Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valerii Zaluzhnyi appointed Lutsenko as the commander of an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) platoon.[10] The platoon was involved in the Battle of Bakhmut and was forced to withdraw from the city on 4 March 2023.[9]
He is well connected, and he has a lot of stink of past criminal investigations around him because of it. That's why he is no longer a minister of interior, but was in charge of just 40 people, and now he's just a civilian. See the trend?
Considering the kind of openly Moscow loving scum who eagerly quote that, i think that's going into his SBU file.
History Learner
Well-known member
What criminal investigations do you refer to? Perhaps the one that occurred under the last Pro-Russian President of Ukraine, which resulted in a pardon and the Minister of Interior position under Zelensky? You also left out the part he is out of the military because of a disability, not a lack of ability or because of politics:
On 5 July 2023 Lutsenko announced that he would no longer serve in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, as he was removed from conscription due to an established disability.[21][113] Lutsenko did not disclose the nature of the disability,[21] but stated he would "work towards victory as a volunteer".[21]
All together a very weird background to insinuate he was a Russian asset, especially given he is clearly connected to the current Commander in Chief of the AFU.
Lutsenko pardoned in Ukraine – DW – 04/07/2013
Former Ukrainian Interior Minister Yuri Lutsenko, who is serving a four-year sentence on corruption charges, has been pardoned by President Yanukovych. The West considers Lutsenko's conviction politically motivated.
www.dw.com
Of course Russia throws everything it has to try corrupt or infiltrate the current UA government especially its highest circles, including calling in old favors and connections.
History Learner
Well-known member
Yes. He got a pardon from the Russian puppet. Who might get a pardon from the Russian puppet and why? That's your oh so trustworthy source.Lutsenko pardoned in Ukraine – DW – 04/07/2013
Former Ukrainian Interior Minister Yuri Lutsenko, who is serving a four-year sentence on corruption charges, has been pardoned by President Yanukovych. The West considers Lutsenko's conviction politically motivated.
Yes, you should ask why he got a pardon and the answer isn't what you're attempting to suggest, in fact:
After already having suggested it earlier,[76] President Viktor Yanukovych on 5 April 2013 proposed the presidential commission on pardons urgently to consider the request by Verkhovna Rada Human Rights Commissioner Valeriya Lutkovska to pardon Lutsenko.[78] The requests to pardon Lutsenko was made by Ukrainian parliamentary Lutkovska, former President of the European Parliament Pat Cox and former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski.[79] Lutkovska asked to pardon Lutsenko "due to the European standards of human rights, which include providing effective medical care to persons detained in prisons".[80] On 7 April 2013, a decree by Yanukovych pardoned Lutsenko (among others) for health reasons and "to decriminalize and humanize Ukrainian legislation"[79] and the same day he was released from prison.[20] The decree also exempted from further punishment Lutsenko's fellow Minister in the second Tymoshenko Government Heorhiy Filipchuk.[20] Lutsenko stated the day after his release he will "continue to remain in politics".[81]
Lutsenko and his family had repeatedly stated that they would not seek a pardon, because they believe the charges where groundless and political punishment.[82] Nevertheless, Lutsenko's wife Iryna Lutsenko welcomed the request.[82]
On 8 April 2013, the European Union welcomed the pardons of Lutsenko and Filipchuk, and urged Ukraine to continue addressing "the cases of selective justice".[83]
Ironically, he was pardoned without asking for it under pressure from the West, including a former President of Poland. What happened after that?In the spring of 2013, Lutsenko established the non-parliamentary movement "Third Republic".[84] At the time he was not member of a political party because he is "on a path to the same goal pursued by "Fatherland" from the bottom up and from the people, by organizing a connection between opposition parties and the populace".[7]
Lutsenko was hospitalised on 11 January 2014 in an intensive care ward after being beaten by police in protests following the sentence of verdicts in the 2011 Vasylkiv terror plot.[87][88] Lutsenko had arrived at the courthouse after initial clashes between police and protesters and after 400 riot police had arrived.[89] After the convicts had been transported away, several cars followed the riot police bus and blocked it at Peremohy avenue, near Svyatoshino police station. A crowd soon gathered, demanding from policemen to open their faces and to show their IDs. According to Lutsenko's wife Iryna her husband had been attacked by police as he tried to break up the violence.[90] Lutsenko has received an official status of victim of a crime.[88]
Weird for a Russian asset to become one of the main leaders of the Euromaidan and nearly get beat to death by the police for it.
Friendly Reminder for General Rule #2 Civility/Staff Thread Rule Violation
Pardoned by his good friend Yanokovych aka Putin's sock puppet. Fuck off you Russian tosser.
History Learner
Well-known member
An odd claim:
Yup, classic spy story. A unwilling recruit gets mysteriously pardoned under the excuse of West asking for it, as if Russian puppets ever cared what western human rights NGOs ask.
Now he has a dossier in Moscow, and an understanding that some very inconvenient info from it will become public if he doesn't make himself useful.
Yeah, Russia would never be interested in infiltrating the leadership of political movements hostile to it, not a chance, we all know FSB is way to honest, transparent and honorable to even think of such kinds of skullduggery.
Also, he was involved in some spicy US politics if no one has heard:
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www.washingtonpost.com
History Learner
Well-known member
Is that why he became a main leader in the EuroMaidan, whose beating was a key moment in the protests?
Tens of thousands of pro-Western Ukrainians have massed in Kyiv to protest the beating in a clash between protesters and police of prominent opposition leader Yuriy Lutsenko.
The rally comes after the 49-year-old former government cabinet member under jailed ex-premier Yulia Tymoshenko was transferred out of intensive care late on January 11. His wife said he was in "moderate" condition. Lutsenko was beaten along with other demonstrators overnight on January 10-11.
The Friday-night protest was against a Kyiv court's sentencing three men to six years in jail for allegedly plotting to blow up a statue of Lenin in 2011.
A Lenin statue in the capital was torn down by pro-EU protesters in early December, and several statues of the communist revolutionary have been vandalized since then.
Opposition leader Vitali Klitschko told the crowd at the January 12 rally that police violence against protesters showed the importance of a continued effort to topple the administration of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.
The so-called Euromaidan protests were sparked by Yanukovych and his political allies' decision in November to ditch an association and trade deal with the European Union in favor of tighter ties with Russia.
The rally comes after the 49-year-old former government cabinet member under jailed ex-premier Yulia Tymoshenko was transferred out of intensive care late on January 11. His wife said he was in "moderate" condition. Lutsenko was beaten along with other demonstrators overnight on January 10-11.
The Friday-night protest was against a Kyiv court's sentencing three men to six years in jail for allegedly plotting to blow up a statue of Lenin in 2011.
A Lenin statue in the capital was torn down by pro-EU protesters in early December, and several statues of the communist revolutionary have been vandalized since then.
Opposition leader Vitali Klitschko told the crowd at the January 12 rally that police violence against protesters showed the importance of a continued effort to topple the administration of Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych.
The so-called Euromaidan protests were sparked by Yanukovych and his political allies' decision in November to ditch an association and trade deal with the European Union in favor of tighter ties with Russia.
Yes, helping Trump against Biden:
In 2019, Lutsenko was a central figure in the Trump–Ukraine scandal after he met multiple times with Rudy Giuliani, who at the time was US President Donald Trump's personal lawyer, to try (without success) to find incriminating information on Joe Biden, who was planning to challenge Trump in the next US presidential election.[18] A few months later, Volodymyr Zelenskyy was elected president of Ukraine and dismissed Lutsenko from his position as Ukraine's chief prosecutor. Trump pressured Zelenskyy to reinstate Lutsenko and threatened to withhold $400 million in previously approved military and security aid to Ukraine if he did not (in addition to a demand that Zelenskyy announce an investigation into the business activities of Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden).[100]
So let's recap, nobody in the SBU or the CIA ever made the connection he was a Russian asset in 10 years as you insinuate, in addition to the fact he was a key leader in the EuroMaidan that toppled the Pro-Russian Government? We can add that Ukraine has been at war for almost two years now, he was personally promoted by the Commander in Chief of the AFU, and nobody but you has apparently figured out he's a Russian asset?
What, exactly, is your evidence he's a Russian asset?
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
The article's source appears to be nothing more or less than the same video you posted, and as far as I could tell the video's English subtitles don't make it explicit: "the number of Ukrainians killed". (Ditto the longer video.) As for the actual audio, I don't speak the language. I agree that soldiers is the implication of what he later says regarding "what is happening at the front" (where civilian casualties would probably not be a large percentage of casualties at the current time, but may have been in the early phase of the war) but I'd rather have a source that explicitly makes the distinction. Especially if, as I believe you noted, he is arguing that the big number will shock people into more war support: he'd then be tempted to fudge the number on the upward side, and adding in civilian casualties while hinting but not outright saying that the number was for soldier casualties is a great way to do that.
If i was the head of FSB, i would make sure that my top infiltrator has plenty of stories of being nearly killed by me.
Yeah, saying Biden didn't violate any laws, despite Trump pulling all stops to get him reinstated, lots of help...
Well, for one he was fucking kicked out from his high position in government for being bad at fighting corruption...
Twice.
If i was in the business of collecting evidence in such cases, i would not be legally allowed to speak about it to people on the internet, especially the likes of you.
Where's your evidence that he's not simply pissing in the soup of Zelensky's circle because he ended his political career and may or may not be getting side benefits for it from other parties?
Where's your evidence that he even knows the real figure, considering that it is classified?
History Learner
Well-known member
"To be honest, [the] 500,000 that they're talking about now if divided by months, is 30,000 per month. And then we will roughly understand what is happening at the front with dead and seriously wounded...They must find out how many died, and then all discussions about whether mobilization is necessary will end."
History Learner
Well-known member
Well luckily for us both, you're not in that position so please lay out your evidence. I'm sure the SBU would be delighted to see it, and since you are the one that presented the claim, the onus in a debate is on you to back up your claims.
You first.
As soon as you send me some millions USD to hire half the private investigators in Ukraine.
You are not in a position to dictate on who the onus is to back up their claims.
History Learner
Well-known member
I already have by pointing out he was cleared both by SBU under Poroshenko and then again by Ukrainian military intelligence during the war before his officer promotion, as well as his participation in EuroMaidan. You have yet to present any evidence; you felt confident enough to advance the claim without said millions, so please lay out your evidence. Clearly you had proof to claim it in the first place, didn't you?
He was fired by Zelensky twice, pardoned by a Russian puppet, certainly not for free for that's not how Russian puppets roll.
That's enough to see that whoever he serves, who the fuck knows, he certainly is not the kind of guy with a singular circle of political friends who can be trusted at his word on anything remotely political.
History Learner
Well-known member
Please cite a source he was fired by Zelensky twice, and then we will move from there.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Yes, I saw that. It's what I referred to in the post you quoted. Also, doesn't that support the idea that he's trying to make the numbers sound high? I presume Ukraine's casualties were heavily front-loaded to the Russian advance and assault on Kyiv, and if that's correct then that means dividing the total by the elapsed time and saying that's the current casualty rate gives you an inflated number.
I mean, also, does it really seem plausible to you that Russia is undercounting Ukrainian casualties by 20%?
History Learner
Well-known member
In the full context of where he is getting that 500,000 number, not really because there's an ongoing debate on further conscription to replace losses (yes, losses) in Ukraine. Ukrainian losses were bad in the first part of 2022 and then skyrocketed again in 2023 due to Bakhmut and then the failed counter-offensive.
No, given we have more than Lutsenko on the Ukrainian side giving similar numbers. I just haven't cited them yet because I'd like to ask Marduk another question first.