Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Marduk

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Don’t paint this as some outlandish conspiracy theory.

Even the State Department admits that there are “biological research facilities” in Ukraine that they say they are worried about Russia gaining access to and using it for biological attacks.

Consider how Americans might feel if Russia was funding such “biological research facilities” in Mexico or Canada.

This is an intentional misstatement of something that was boring international cooperation crap before Russia needed reasons to generate outrage at Ukraine and US for.
The key part is this:
In 1991, the U.S.’s Nunn–Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program converted former Soviet bioweapons labs in Ukraine and elsewhere into U.S.-funded facilities to decommission weapons of mass destruction that might otherwise have been up for grabs following the dissolution of the Soviet Union—though the Russian Federation has, since at least 2017, promoted conspiracy theories that these labs are secret U.S. bioweapons factories.
It was happening, public and known (at least to those who don't consider this stuff boring trivia of US international aid/soft power programs) since 1991.
But for not so mysterious reasons Russia has started to be angry about it and make nasty accusations over their "real" purpose only in last few years.
Why wasn't Putin talking about this stuff to Bush in 2007? Why not to Obama and Clinton during their reset? Russia has only started this kind of talk during the supposedly totally compromised Trump's term, and ramped it up as need be, conveniently tracking with their military activities against nearby countries they were "regime changing" at the time.
Long story short, Putin is clumsily copying Dubya's shitty homework. Very shameful.
 
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Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
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This whole fucking thing is a tragedy, but I guess in a big enough tragedy there has to be at least some comedy.
 

ATP

Well-known member
And I trust the Ukrainian government as far as I can throw the Ghost of Kiev.
Zelensky do not blew up his own people to start war,like Putin in 1999 - so,you should still trust him more then KGB.
Besides,no matter what people thought about russians before war,after Putin take ruins of Kharkow and other est ukrainians cities,people would hate russians there.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Obozny
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This whole fucking thing is a tragedy, but I guess in a big enough tragedy there has to be at least some comedy.


Yes, it's totally plausible that dozens of western citizens died in a russian bombing raid, and literally no one has reported on that outside of random dudes on reddit, and even more plausible that despite foreign volunteers still going through basic training, which is why they were supposedly at the the base in the first place, they've somehow also been deployed to the front and taken massive loses. That totally makes sense.


Your skepticism toward popular narratives regarding the war only seems to apply to popular pro-ukraine narratives, whenever something comes up that favors Russia you seem to be much more trusting, despite the sources being just as dubious.
 
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Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
Yes, it's totally plausible that dozens of western citizens died in a russian bombing raid, and literally no one has reported on that outside of random dudes on reddit, and even more plausible that despite foreign volunteers still going through basic training, which is why they were at the the base in the first place, they've somehow also been deployed to the front and taken massive loses. That totally makes sense.

Your skepticism toward popular narratives regarding the war only seems to apply to popular pro-ukraine narratives, whenever something comes up that favors Russia you seem to be much more trusting, despite the sources being just as dubious.
>literally no one has reported
What are you even talking about? The Russian missile strikes on a base used for training have been reported by Reuters, BBC, etc, and corroborated by foreign fighters on r/volunteersforukraine.



I don't know why you'd even doubt that with the situation in Ukraine gone to hell, their volunteer deployment is piece-meal, ineffective, and ultimately suicidal. Throwing randos into a 1st world meat grinder was never going to achieve good results, and of course Russia would blast incoming streams of belligerents and supplies at the first opportunity.
 

Battlegrinder

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>literally no one has reported
What are you even talking about? The Russian missile strikes on a base used for training have been reported by Reuters, BBC, etc, and corroborated by foreign fighters on r/volunteersforukraine.

The fact that there was a strike has been reported, but the only source that has said there were foreigner volunteers on the base is buzzfeed, and thier reporting also stated that none of foreign volunteers were among the casualties. And also they're buzzfeed, so even what they have said isn't trustworthy.

I don't know why you'd even doubt that with the situation in Ukraine gone to hell, their volunteer deployment is piece-meal, ineffective, and ultimately suicidal.

I would doubt it for the same reason I'd doubt claims to the reverse about how overseas aid has turned the tide and the volunteers are doing fine. Getting reliable and accurate information out of a warzone is hard, and it's made much harder when both sides are intentionally trying to muddy the waters and tilt public opinion toward thier side for thier own reasons. The only reasonable response is to trust no one, and to actively distrust people like you, who have no idea what they're talking about and no relevant expertise or knowledge of the situation outside of far right "Russia stronk" memes.

Throwing randos into a 1st world meat grinder was never going to achieve good results, and of course Russia would blast incoming streams of belligerents and supplies at the first opportunity.

"Of course" they would because.....why? They're fighting an actual war against real soldiers right now, why not bomb the actual enemy army and not the guys that might eventually join that army after weeks of training? That seems like a much better use of those weapons.

In real reporting of the bombing, the conclusion I've seen drawn most often is that the base was hit because it's very close to Poland, and the Russians bombed it for essentially symbolic reasons to deter NATO from getting involved, which seems at least as likely if not more so then "clearly, Putin fears what a handful of redditors can do once they reach the front and decided to bomb them first".
 

Whitestrake Pelinal

Like a dream without a dreamer
"Of course" they would because.....why? They're fighting an actual war against real soldiers right now, why not bomb the actual enemy army and not the guys that might eventually join that army after weeks of training? That seems like a much better use of those weapons.

In real reporting of the bombing, the conclusion I've seen drawn most often is that the base was hit because it's very close to Poland, and the Russians bombed it for essentially symbolic reasons to deter NATO from getting involved, which seems at least as likely if not more so then "clearly, Putin fears what a handful of redditors can do once they reach the front and decided to bomb them first".
Allowing a flow of NATO weapons into Ukraine would be retarded.

Allowing a flow of hostile irregulars into Ukraine would be similarly retarded, for multiple reasons.
  • Even if they are low quality, they are more bodies on the field.
  • Some of them are not low quality, having real military or medical experience that could prove useful.
  • Foreigners showing up to fight can benefit UkA morale, which will make getting a surrender harder.
  • Most importantly, a foreign legion is a fine cover for a force of globalist military contractors, which Russia has had to deal with before in the past. The last thing Russia needs is an open door policy for mercenaries and false-flagging spooks. Even after they win the war, those people would be a liability in enforcing peace, because they won't care about whether Ukraine ends up in another ruinous war, but meeting globalist objectives.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
More trophes that will probably be sold to the Houthis or Assad.



>Italy giving Ukraine modified MG42s

Ruskie's will be running into the same machine gun fire their grandfather's did.

Edit: Harris being a dumb bitch again:


Ukraine isn't in NATO, you dumb bitch.

I am sure DNR/LNR will appreciate the extra free shit, the rest will be sold by reputable slavic businesspersons to people who need freedom:
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AnimalNoodles

Well-known member
Artist's rendering:
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And of course the memes flow freely

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Okay redditors, you arent hunting goat herders equipped with AK 47s and rpgs while enjoying complete air dominance. You are facing a peer level military with material and air superiority. Your hyperreality image of yourself as a superhero punching Nazis gets smashed to kibble in the face of the actual reality of cruise missiles and autocannon.
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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Allowing a flow of NATO weapons into Ukraine would be retarded.

Allowing a flow of hostile irregulars into Ukraine would be similarly retarded, for multiple reasons.

You're clearly just operating from the position that the strike must have been aimed at detering foreign volunteers, and are working backwards to justify that conclusion in place of having actual evidence to that effect.

Even if they are low quality, they are more bodies on the field.

They're not "on the field", they're in training and won't be ready to deploy for weeks. By which time Russia will have already won and the point will be moot, at least according to the putin brigade here, who've been insisting that we're witnessing the beginning of the end of the war since like day 3 of the war.

Some of them are not low quality, having real military or medical experience that could prove useful.

Medical experience is irrelevant, wounded Ukrainian soldiers will be out action for weeks anyway, the only injuries that could see wounded men sent back to the front are ones minor enough you don't need a lot of skill to treat them. Military experience is only marginally more valuable, as the people with the most useful military skills are Ukrainian soldiers, who know more about Ukrainian weapons, equipment, tactics, local terrain, etc than any foreign volunteer, and are far more likely to stick around as an insurgent compared to the foreigners.

Foreigners showing up to fight can benefit UkA morale, which will make getting a surrender harder.

What's going to convince you that your position is hopeless and surrender is preferable, the Russians bombing someone else hundreds of miles in an attack you might not even hear about, or the Russians bombing you?

And if you mean pressure against the Ukrainian government, Zelenskyy hasn't shown any sign of breaking yet and is far more focused on the actions of western governments then a tiny handful of their citizens, so I don't see why this would work then either.

Most importantly, a foreign legion is a fine cover for a force of globalist military contractors, which Russia has had to deal with before in the past. The last thing Russia needs is an open door policy for mercenaries and false-flagging spooks. Even after they win the war, those people would be a liability in enforcing peace, because they won't care about whether Ukraine ends up in another ruinous war, but meeting globalist objectives.

And bombing this base will stop the evil globalist from slipping thier agents into Ukraine......how, exactly? Idiot redditors might flake out once reality sets in, professional mercs won't, because that's what being a professional merc means.




And the biggest issue with you approach here is that I can just make up whatever I want to be true and contrive a reason for it to be so, and be on just as firm ground as you.

Consider this, Putin bombed the base, but didn't destroy it, and it's very hard to actually destroy the sort of infrastructure you need to train soldiers with just bombs anyway, since all you really need is some open space, space for people to sleep, a few instructors, and time. You could do it out in the middle of nowhere and move the camp around. Putin cannot just "cut off" the flow of outside volunteers and supplies, not from the air anyway. He's had decades to learn from the US's example that you need ground forces for that.

So, Putin cannot use military force to stop the flow of personal, not until he seizes the area and actually has troops in position to block off access. But what he can do is lie to people on the internet about doing so, since the effect of an airstrike and the claim of such a strike will look the same on the internet, and he can count on people like you to propagandize for him and make up the difference.

Therefore, by my logic, which is also your logic since neither of us have any actual evidence or relevant expertise, any word about a Russian airstrike blowing up a bunch of redditors is fake.
 
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WolfBear

Well-known member
It is some "institute" probably affiliated with the government, and/or big donors.

Not sure about donors, but they don't strike me as being a Ukrainian government tool:


That said, though, you're highly welcome to post your own federalization polling for Ukraine here. Any polling that shows much more federalization support in Odessa Oblast, for instance.
 

Agent23

Ни шагу назад!
Not sure about donors, but they don't strike me as being a Ukrainian government tool:


That said, though, you're highly welcome to post your own federalization polling for Ukraine here. Any polling that shows much more federalization support in Odessa Oblast, for instance.
Frankly I think that the support for Yanukovych was a better indication as to who stood where in the Russia vs. West situation.
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Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled shitposting program:
 

Battlegrinder

Someday we will win, no matter what it takes.
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I will just admit I wish Russia to win but will believe when I see it.

Russia can, and still probably will, conquer Ukraine, but given the causalities they've taken and the international response, I don't think you can spin that as a victory. That ship has sailed.
 

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