Breaking News January 6th Stop the Steal Rally & Capitol Breaching/Storming

It's not even about the circumstances, really, or the fact that if he's that bitchmade that he felt his life was being threatened by an unarmed woman on the other side of barrier, he probably shouldn't be a cop.

He shouldn't have been there, period. By being there, he's siding with the swamp creatures and congresscritters over the American People. It doesn't matter that "it's his job" or that they're the ones writing his check, because they always were going to be.

Rocinante said:

You don't just shoot people because they MIGHT be armed.

Click to expand...

So..you would rather wait and see and possibly lose your life just to see if they are unarmed??

Captain X said:

I wouldn't have shot an unarmed woman. And you're damn straight he should be charged with murder. Stop sticking up for this man - he's already proved he'd think nothing of killing someone like you.

Click to expand...

How so? Because I am conservative? If I walked in there ND didn't climb over a barrier I doubt he would shoot me because of my political leaning.

LindyAF said:

yeah and some people deserve a long drop and a sudden stop

he doesn't get a pass because he's a special snowflake or whatever

Click to expand...

I'm not saying he is a special snowflake or anything

LindyAF said:

It's not even about the circumstances, really, or the fact that if he's that bitchmade that he felt his life was being threatened by an unarmed woman on the other side of barrier, he probably shouldn't be a cop.

He shouldn't have been there, period. By being there, he's siding with the swamp creatures and congresscritters over the American People. It doesn't matter that "it's his job" or that they're the ones writing his check, because they always were going to be.

Click to expand...

How do you know she was unarmed? How do you know you would be safe should she have gotten over the barrier?

Same as any cop enforcing red flag orders, or bringing in our guys on politically motivated and trumped up charges. Yeah tHeY'rE dOiNg ThEiR jOb or whatever. They've shown they'd still be doing that job if it was general gun confiscation, enforcing lockdowns, or politically motivated and trumped up charges against every other conservative. So fuck them.

Zachowon said:

So..you would rather wait and see and possibly lose your life just to see if they are unarmed??

How so? Because I am conservative? If I walked in there ND didn't climb over a barrier I doubt he would shoot me because of my political leaning.

I'm not saying he is a special snowflake or anything

How do you know she was unarmed? How do you know you would be safe should she have gotten over the barrier?

Click to expand...

dude, police don't get to just decide someone MIGHT be maybe armed and shoot them just in case.

Unless they're right wingers of course.

Zachowon said:

So..you would rather wait and see and possibly lose your life just to see if they are unarmed??

Click to expand...

I carry. If I fired in a situation like that- public place, behind a barrier, on an unarmed woman, >99.99% chance I'd be doing time. Why does he get a different standard?

Zachowon said:

How so? Because I am conservative? If I walked in there ND didn't climb over a barrier I doubt he would shoot me because of my political leaning.

Click to expand...

I doubt you'd ever be going in there anyway, so I don't really see how that's relevant.

Zachowon said:

I'm not saying he is a special snowflake or anything

Click to expand...

Zachowon said:

It is almost like every person is thier own unique person

Click to expand...

Not a special snowflake, he's just such a unique and special individual that nobody can possibly judge him .

Zachowon said:

How do you know she was unarmed? How do you know you would be safe should she have gotten over the barrier?

Click to expand...

Literally every report I've seen from both sides has said she was unarmed. If you've got a source that says different, let's see it.

LindyAF said:

Same as any cop enforcing red flag orders, or bringing in our guys on politically motivated and trumped up charges. Yeah tHeY'rE dOiNg ThEiR jOb or whatever. They've shown they'd still be doing that job if it was general gun confiscation, enforcing lockdowns, or politically motivated and trumped up charges against every other conservative. So fuck them.

Click to expand...

So I can't defend something I think? Is that it?

Rocinante said:

dude, police don't get to just decide someone MIGHT be maybe armed and shoot them just in case.

Unless they're right wingers of course.

Click to expand...

Yes you can actually. Because if you fear for your life and have a just reason, that is what they teach....

LindyAF said:

I carry. If I fired in a situation like that- public place, behind a barrier, on an unarmed woman, >99.99% chance I'd be doing time. Why does he get a different standard?



I doubt you'd ever be going in there anyway, so I don't really see how that's relevant.




Not a special snowflake, he's just such a unique and special individual that nobody can possibly judge him .



Literally every report I've seen from both sides has said she was unarmed. If you've got a source that says different, let's see it.

Click to expand...

.....
So your saying you have people trying to push down a barricade you made, shouting, calling things out. Definitely not that nice, and then you see a broken window and someone trying to climb through. You have been told some may be armed.
Are you going to wait until you see the weapon, and potentially lose your life because you didn't act fast enough, or take the initiative.

You know how cops and soldiers die fastest? They wait till it is to late to fire.

This idiot is the kind of guy who would have shot a puppy and claimed it was because he feared for his life. I'm sorry, but that excuse just doesn't fly.

Zachowon said:

So I can't defend something I think? Is that it?

Click to expand...

Yeah. If you were defending some gun grabbing cop I'd be saying the exact same thing. Just because you think something doesn't mean it isn't retarded.

Zachowon said:

So your saying you have people trying to push down a barricade you made, shouting, calling things out. Definitely not that nice, and then you see a broken window and someone trying to climb through. You have been told some may be armed.
Are you going to wait until you see the weapon, and potentially lose your life because you didn't act fast enough, or take the initiative.

Click to expand...

Hmmm... I think I wouldn't choose to be on the side of a corrupt system that hates my people in the first place.

Captain X said:

This idiot is the kind of guy who would have shot a puppy and claimed it was because he feared for his life. I'm sorry, but that excuse just doesn't fly.

Click to expand...

No? Are you onw of those that thinks cops have to see a weapon before they can even draw thier guns?
Did you not hear about what happend recently with the cop who was killed because he was ignorant of an person not being armed?

LindyAF said:

Yeah. If you were defending some gun grabbing cop I'd be saying the exact same thing. What you think is retarded.



Hmmm... I think I wouldn't choose to be on the side of a corrupt system that hates my people in the first place.

Click to expand...

The person could be ignorant of the system.
I'm sorry I actually defend people who as recent events show, don't have hindsight and can get shot or have a situation go bad within 3 seconds

Zachowon said:

The person could be ignorant of the system.
I'm sorry I actually defend people who as recent events show, don't have hindsight and can get shot or have a situation go bad within 3 seconds

Click to expand...

"Oh poor bby cop he could be ignorant of the system , oh he could not have known she was unarmed , oh he could have not realized there was a barrier between him and her , oh he could have though she could get passed it "

you've got endless "could have" excuses for the jackboots of the system, zero for someone trying to fight it. Maybe you should think about why that is, because if that's the standard you hold to you'd excuse any gun grabbing cop.

LindyAF said:

"Oh poor bby cop he could be ignorant of the system , oh he could not have known she was unarmed , oh he could have not realized there was a barrier between him and her , oh he could have though she could get passed it "

you've got endless "could have" excuses for the jackboots of the system, zero for someone trying to fight it. Maybe you should think about why that is, because if that's the standard you hold to you'd excuse any gun grabbing cop.

Click to expand...

Starting to question if he's just naive or worse.... He's kinda sus, as the kids say these days.

Zachowon said:

No? Are you onw of those that thinks cops have to see a weapon before they can even draw thier guns?
Did you not hear about what happend recently with the cop who was killed because he was ignorant of an person not being armed?

The person could be ignorant of the system.
I'm sorry I actually defend people who as recent events show, don't have hindsight and can get shot or have a situation go bad within 3 seconds

Click to expand...

Zach what you support is extrajudicial killings of unarmed protesters.

Let's be clear on that.

LindyAF said:

"Oh poor bby cop he could be ignorant of the system , oh he could not have known she was unarmed , oh he could have not realized there was a barrier between him and her , oh he could have though she could get passed it "

you've got endless "could have" excuses for the jackboots of the system, zero for someone trying to fight it. Maybe you should think about why that is, because if that's the standard you hold to you'd excuse any gun grabbing cop.

Click to expand...

So your saying you should just hope the person won't shoot you long enough for you to identify the weapon?

You seem to think every cop is a mindless drone that follows orders and will gladly get shot for the surpreme overlord..

except they won't, and when you have people like officer Tatum who is a prominent right wing commentator and back the blue supporter, and goes out of his way to break down shootings.. a lot of the time,, the exact thing I am talking about it how a lot of officers die.

Rocinante said:

Zach what you support is extrajudicial killings of unarmed protesters.

Let's be clear on that.

Click to expand...

No.
What I support is that cops have been killed because they hesitate.
I am only defending him because I know how it is to be in a similar situation....

Zachowon said:

So your saying you should just hope the person won't shoot you long enough for you to identify the weapon?

You seem to think every cop is a mindless drone that follows orders and will gladly get shot for the surpreme overlord..

except they won't, and when you have people like officer Tatum who is a prominent right wing commentator and back the blue supporter, and goes out of his way to break down shootings.. a lot of the time,, the exact thing I am talking about it how a lot of officers die.

No.
What I support is that cops have been killed because they hesitate.
I am only defending him because I know how it is to be in a similar situation....

Click to expand...

So police should just not hesitate and should kill anyone they think might possibly maybe be a threat?

If they pull you over and find out you have a ccw they might fear for their lives. They should probably just shoot you instead of taking chances right?

Rocinante said:

So police should just not hesitate and should kill anyone they think might possibly maybe be a threat?

If they pull you over and find out you have a ccw they might fear for their lives. They should probably just shoot you instead of taking chances right?

Click to expand...

die..
It all depends on situation. For instance, someone crawling over a barricade, one people ar existing against, and are told someone may have a weapon.

Like say you pull someone over and they have a gun. You tell them not to reach for it, and to get out of the vehicle so they can remove it for you, and put it in your vehicle for you.
They decide to reach for ot anyway.
Then you shoot.

Or with the newest case. Someone is said to have. Gun. You don't see it on tjem, and they reach into thier car after getting out of your grip...

I can go on about examples

Zachowon said:

How do you know she was unarmed? How do you know you would be safe should she have gotten over the barrier?

Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if she's maybe armed and might be dangerous later, she's not dangerous right now, and so you can't shoot her.

Zachowon said:

So I can't defend something I think? Is that it?

Click to expand...

Can't as in "are not allowed to", of course not, defend away.

Can't as in "unable to assemble a compelling argument".....yes, kinda. I would suggest you stop, get your thoughts in order, and do some research before you keep going, because right now you're doing yourself no favors.

Case in point:

Zachowon said:

Yes you can actually. Because if you fear for your life and have a just reason, that is what they teach....

Click to expand...

That is absolutely untrue. Mere fear and "a reason" is not sufficient to claim to be acting in self defense. Legally speaking, the acceptable cause for using deadly force is in the case of imminent risk of death or serious bodily harm, or in the defense of someone else threatened with such.

In layman's terms, the only acceptable defense for drawing a weapon and using it try and kill another human being, is that if you hadn't done so you or a third party were absolutely going to die or be badly hurt. Ashley babbitt was not mere instants away from killing that officer or even in a position to do so, therefore this wasn't justified. If you think otherwise, you should present an argument to that effect.

Zachowon said:

What I support is that cops have been killed because they hesitate.

Click to expand...

That's the risk they take when they swear an oath to protect and serve the public, in a job they know is life threatening. If you cannot handle that risk and are primed to shoot first just in case, you should not be a cop and you should not be legally empowered to use deadly force against other people.

Zachowon said:

I can go on about examples

Click to expand...

Of those 3 cases, only the second is clearly justified.

Zachowon said:

You seem to think every cop is a mindless drone that follows orders and will gladly get shot for the surpreme overlord..

Click to expand...

I think that cop was someone willing to shoot American patriots on behalf of the system, because that's what that cop did.

LindyAF said:

I think that cop was someone willing to shoot American patriots on behalf of the system, because that's what that cop did.

Click to expand...

Let's not forget, the cops were ordered to let these people in.

And then they shot them.

Captain X said:

I wouldn't have shot an unarmed woman. And you're damn straight he should be charged with murder. Stop sticking up for this man - he's already proved he'd think nothing of killing someone like you.

Click to expand...

Murder might be a bit of a stretch; I think a better case could be made for manslaughter. Of course, this whole "actually holding government officials accountable for their actions while carrying out their orders" thing is a relatively new concept (Ruby Ridge, anyone?).

I'm getting sick of Zachowon's crap, so.


(I'd like a better clip, but Youtube of course will only throw up links from 'trusted sources.')

So, what has happened here:

1. There is a riot inside the capital.
2. Some people are trying to break down a set of double doors.
3. There are armed police on the other side.
4. A police office shot an unarmed person.

What has not happened here:

1. The doors are still intact.
2. There is no one pointing a gun at the cop on the other side.
3. There is no one shooting at the police on the other side.
4. No one has even tried to strike the police officer on the other side.
5. No one's life is under immediate threat in any way by the rioters here.

This is not a justified killing. If they were through the door and charging a man with a gun raised, that would justify shooting. If they were screaming 'We will kill you!' it might be a justified shooting. If the cop shot the person actually attacking the door, it might have been justified.

Zachowon, you've had an increasing tendency towards trust in whatever institution(s) regardless of the facts for some time now, but your complete nonsense on this thread has destroyed what respect I have for you.

In the United States of America:

1. Police do not have the right to fire indiscriminately into a crowd of people that has not shown itself to be armed.
2. Police do not have the right to fire on civilians if they or the lives of others have not been threatened. Minor damage to public property does not count.
3. Government buildings are not a form of holy ground where the above two change somehow.

There's no reason I see to charge the cop for murder, but manslaughter of some sort is absolutely on the table.