What If? What if Jamie didn't notice Bran?

[Agent23]

If there is a war then Robert will take to field which should help his health. Less food, less booze, more non "bunga-bunga" exercise.
Or drop dead to stroke ASAP.
One Land!
One Folk!
One King!
Stannis!
Stannis!
STANNIS!

Yeah, the year of 3 kings, Robert, Stannis, Renly.

Then Littlefinger or the Dragon Mary Sue take over.

Ultimately, though, it will be either Samwell or Bran becoming king.

I assumed that Samwell would take over because obivious author avatar, but then Fatso the Procrastinating Shitposter went and decided to subvert expectations by soul jerking off to "muh storyteller iz best king..."

 

[ATP]

Basically assume that Jaime doesn't notice Bran, Bran goes to Ned to tell Jaime and Cersei were boning in the tower, Ned after a bit of hesitation informs Robert, Ned and Robert climb up the tower to find Jaime and Cersei in post-coitus spooning nude.

How will this affect the course of the series?

Well,they were on the hunt,but if they come back just to meet Bran....
Jaime&Cersei dead,maybe their children,too.And most of Redcloaks.

If King die,cyvil war and Lannister crushed.With Stannis as King after killing Renly with magic.
If not,Tywin rebel,Lannisters crushed.

If there is a war then Robert will take to field which should help his health. Less food, less booze, more non "bunga-bunga" exercise.
Or drop dead to stroke ASAP.
One Land!
One Folk!
One King!
Stannis!
Stannis!
STANNIS!

Sorry,but you are not fashionable.

It would be rather like: Northern lives matter,fight fascist Lannisters in the name of our lgbt+ he/she/it Stannis,whatever pronounce he/she/it choose.

 

[Husky_Khan]

The Goldcloaks were subverted by Baelish from underneath Renly and "sold" to Team Lannister.
Here there is no "senior Lannister" - in canon it was Cersei - to negotiate with. A coup in KL - making use of the resident "minor Lannisters" - would have to be organised by long distance raven with Pycelle being the local "agent".

That was the other peculiarity. There were a lot of RedCloaks/Lannister men but a decided lack of Baratheon troops for the Baratheon King. To a degree it makes some sense with how in debt to the Lannisters the Crown is but the lack of Baratheon troops is still odd.

In the wake of Roberts death Renly apparently has "a hundred swords" he rode out with in the show which is like a similar number to how many Ned Stark brought down from the North. Maybe other Baratheon household troops went unmentioned/unseen but it's still an interesting quirk in it all.

 

[Buba]

Sorry,but you are not fashionable.

Akshualy ein Reich, ein Folk, ein Fuehrer One Realm! One God! One King is canon from the books.

 

[ATP]

That was the other peculiarity. There were a lot of RedCloaks/Lannister men but a decided lack of Baratheon troops for the Baratheon King. To a degree it makes some sense with how in debt to the Lannisters the Crown is but the lack of Baratheon troops is still odd.

In the wake of Roberts death Renly apparently has "a hundred swords" he rode out with in the show which is like a similar number to how many Ned Stark brought down from the North. Maybe other Baratheon household troops went unmentioned/unseen but it's still an interesting quirk in it all.

GRRM bullshit.Dude simply do not undarstandt logistic.He want to be Tolkien,but failed miserably.

Akshualy ein Reich, ein Folk, ein Fuehrer One Realm! One God! One King is canon from the books.

I knew,but they still should go with modern version of leftist - BLM and Antifa in Westeros.

 

[Bear Ribs]

GRRM bullshit.Dude simply do not undarstandt logistic.He want to be Tolkien,but failed miserably.


I knew,but they still should go with modern version of leftist - BLM and Antifa in Westeros.

Note that George RR Martin is extremely leftist, he would make BLM and Antifa the good guys.

He told the New York Times that, basically, the entire series, was an allegory for climate change and how people need to focus on that instead of their own personal issues, with Winter being a stand-in for Global Warming. He also said Trump and Joffrey have comparable levels of maturity and Trump would rule like Joffrey did if he was a king or emperor.

 

[ATP]

Note that George RR Martin is extremely leftist, he would make BLM and Antifa the good guys.

He told the New York Times that, basically, the entire series, was an allegory for climate change and how people need to focus on that instead of their own personal issues, with Winter being a stand-in for Global Warming. He also said Trump and Joffrey have comparable levels of maturity and Trump would rule like Joffrey did if he was a king or emperor.

I knew,that he is lazy and poor writer,but that....
Althought i could explain it - he is so bad writer,that he must hide behind leftist shit to explain his shitty writing.
I could undarstandt that,if i was bad writer without conscience,i would do the same.

 

[King Arts]

Note that George RR Martin is extremely leftist, he would make BLM and Antifa the good guys.

He told the New York Times that, basically, the entire series, was an allegory for climate change and how people need to focus on that instead of their own personal issues, with Winter being a stand-in for Global Warming. He also said Trump and Joffrey have comparable levels of maturity and Trump would rule like Joffrey did if he was a king or emperor.

That's a pretty stupid take. I don't remember Trump killing prostitutes for fun.

Even if you think Trump is stupid the worst you could compare him to is Robert.

 

[Agent23]

Note that George RR Martin is extremely leftist, he would make BLM and Antifa the good guys.

He told the New York Times that, basically, the entire series, was an allegory for climate change and how people need to focus on that instead of their own personal issues, with Winter being a stand-in for Global Warming. He also said Trump and Joffrey have comparable levels of maturity and Trump would rule like Joffrey did if he was a king or emperor.

Yeah, he went full on deranged around the Obama administration.

Also, he is going senile fast and always was an attention whore.
This is probably just more of his post facto "accommodation" to get more praise.

The original 3 ASoIaF books were probably his greatest literary achievement that might as well have been a flook.
That, and he managed to write himself into a hole deeper than the Marianas trench.

Also, the GoT ending was IMHO 100% him.
Same type of ending and same feel as most of his other stuff.
He IMO distanced himself from ot because he does not wish to admit he failed hard.
Hopefully the series gets finished by someone halfway competent and coherent like Sanderson once he kicks the bucket.

But enough about the fandom's opinion of him.

 

[Husky_Khan]

That's a pretty stupid take. I don't remember Trump killing prostitutes for fun.

Even if you think Trump is stupid the worst you could compare him to is Robert.

Yeah Trump would more accurately be a Robert expy if anything. I mean without the war hero reputation.

I mean, you're not wrong, but this is ASoIaF. I've made quite a few rants before about how bizarre it actually is and how little it resembles anything like a real medieval world.

Nobody seems to have the slightest problem with fielding massive armies of identically-equipped troops and having them deployed for years on end, they act far more like a conscript army than a levy even before getting into the fact that their logistics and travel times act like modern-day real-world ones rather than medieval.

Structures are odd, castles somehow just sit there in the middle of nowhere without being surrounded by farmland and towns to support them, though as A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry noted, they do at least have somebody mowing the lawn for miles around the castle even though there are no sheep or cattle. Boats don't seem to be used to ship goods much by river and only haltingly by sea. There's no actual visible shipping or caravans bringing in the mountains of grain King's Landing would need to feed its populace.

Robert is indeed unlikeable, but somehow Cersei and Joffrey were able to maintain control without any bowback from their soldiers and he's the most likeable man in the world compared to those two.

Nobody appears to actually believe their own religion, they have the trappings and even straight up signs from the gods and yet nobody follows their prescribed morality and even blowing up the equivalent of the Vatican gets no blowback.

The Khan of the Mongol Horde equivalent only owns one horse, wears a tatty leather outfit, and no sheep or cattle. Ghengis servant's servants had more ostentatious wealth.

Somehow the most badass fighters in the world are eunuchs.

I've never read GRRM and keeping his politics aside (its fine if Authors inject their personal beliefs/ideology into things but it should be subtle and not subvert the story with its preaching) my only exposure is the Game of Thrones television show. I know GRRM's world building has lots of deep and perhaps overt flaws, but I still think, based off of my filtered exposure to his worldbuilding, that he actually did a pretty good job and the world he developed, as fantasy or fictional settings go, was fairly successful and well done as far as I can see. Especially since it's basically one dude (with some helpers with archiving everything in an encyclopedia IIRC) writing it all.

All of your criticisms are valid, but I feel the overall product seemed pretty commendable IMHO as far as world building itself goes.

I could be completely off base though. Never read the books and I haven't been exposed to lots of fantasy realms besides DnD and video game settings.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Yeah Trump would more accurately be a Robert expy if anything. I mean without the war hero reputation.


I've never read GRRM and keeping his politics aside (its fine if Authors inject their personal beliefs/ideology into things but it should be subtle and not subvert the story with its preaching) my only exposure is the Game of Thrones television show. I know GRRM's world building has lots of deep and perhaps overt flaws, but I still think, based off of my filtered exposure to his worldbuilding, that he actually did a pretty good job and the world he developed, as fantasy or fictional settings go, was fairly successful and well done as far as I can see. Especially since it's basically one dude (with some helpers with archiving everything in an encyclopedia IIRC) writing it all.

All of your criticisms are valid, but I feel the overall product seemed pretty commendable IMHO as far as world building itself goes.

I could be completely off base though. Never read the books and I haven't been exposed to lots of fantasy realms besides DnD and video game settings.

Well, I haven't seen much of the show aside from clips but did read a lot of it twenty years ago when he started the series so I guess we're inverted there. ASoIaF was well positioned in time, it came out right when the Internet was starting its major growth phase and fandoms were booming, but before internet publishing started up and it would have had more competition.

On a technical level they were okay-ish but he was mostly notorious for just much explicit sex and extremely random violence his stories had, at a time when most fantasy was relatively kid-friendly. Books like DnD's Drizzt series, the Heralds of Valdemar, and other relatively fluffy stuff with happy endings were prevalent, to the extent that in The Pagemaster Fantasy says her worlds all have happy endings*.

This reduced the quality of his writing down a stage from good to merely okay-ish because it futzed with the flow and rising tension of the story, he'd spend 50 pages building a character only for them to get stabbed by some rando. I recall a meme back in the day that was basically the cover of the first book and the title replaced with "Everybody you cared about in the last chapter dies in the next chapter."


*It's a movie where several main characters are the personifications of literary genres, the MC goes on a journey with Fantasy, Horror, and Adventure.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

"Everybody you cared about in the last chapter dies in the next chapter."

Pretty accurate.

 

[Agent23]

Well, I haven't seen much of the show aside from clips but did read a lot of it twenty years ago when he started the series so I guess we're inverted there. ASoIaF was well positioned in time, it came out right when the Internet was starting its major growth phase and fandoms were booming, but before internet publishing started up and it would have had more competition.

On a technical level they were okay-ish but he was mostly notorious for just much explicit sex and extremely random violence his stories had, at a time when most fantasy was relatively kid-friendly. Books like DnD's Drizzt series, the Heralds of Valdemar, and other relatively fluffy stuff with happy endings were prevalent, to the extent that in The Pagemaster Fantasy says her worlds all have happy endings*.

This reduced the quality of his writing down a stage from good to merely okay-ish because it futzed with the flow and rising tension of the story, he'd spend 50 pages building a character only for them to get stabbed by some rando. I recall a meme back in the day that was basically the cover of the first book and the title replaced with "Everybody you cared about in the last chapter dies in the next chapter."


*It's a movie where several main characters are the personifications of literary genres, the MC goes on a journey with Fantasy, Horror, and Adventure.

Actually I think it covered sn existing niche which was darker and edgier fantasy.

Sure, there was dark and edgy and even more realistic medieval fantasy before and after Tolkien, but most of the stuff was copy paste, and somehow he got a critical mass, thet is not to say they he was not a skillful and experienced writer.

He can be good, he needs a coworker to keep him focused and to keep his ego form exploding.

But overall, much of his work feels like fenfics of better writers, like Paul Anderson and Heinlein.
Even parts of ASoIaF feel like they are fenfics of Jack Vance's work and he admitted that Memory, Sorrow, Thorn was a big influence in getting him to write "serious" fantasy.

In any case, it moved fantasy out of Tolkienist grip and made darker, edgier, more realistic medieval themed eith Byzantine backstabbing great (again), so he did a service to the genre overall, IMHO.

 

[ATP]

Yeah Trump would more accurately be a Robert expy if anything. I mean without the war hero reputation.


I've never read GRRM and keeping his politics aside (its fine if Authors inject their personal beliefs/ideology into things but it should be subtle and not subvert the story with its preaching) my only exposure is the Game of Thrones television show. I know GRRM's world building has lots of deep and perhaps overt flaws, but I still think, based off of my filtered exposure to his worldbuilding, that he actually did a pretty good job and the world he developed, as fantasy or fictional settings go, was fairly successful and well done as far as I can see. Especially since it's basically one dude (with some helpers with archiving everything in an encyclopedia IIRC) writing it all.

All of your criticisms are valid, but I feel the overall product seemed pretty commendable IMHO as far as world building itself goes.

I could be completely off base though. Never read the books and I haven't been exposed to lots of fantasy realms besides DnD and video game settings.

Main problem with GRRM - he created parodies of Western Europe,Vikings,Mongols,Catholic Church,and Aristocracy.
Either from stupidity,or becouse he is leftist.
That is why his works suck.

About show - i stopped watching after Sir Twenty Good Man destroyed Stannis.It was too stupid even for me,and i usually like stupid movies.

 

[Agent23]

Main problem with GRRM - he created parodies of Western Europe,Vikings,Mongols,Catholic Church,and Aristocracy.
Either from stupidity,or becouse he is leftist.
That is why his works suck.

About show - i stopped watching after Sir Twenty Good Man destroyed Stannis.It was too stupid even for me,and i usually like stupid movies.

Yup, that was pathetic.

Never the less, the series had two remaining attractions for me aside for my enjoyment of train wrecks and hatered for the books after the first trilogy.

Emilia Clarke, who is one fine piece of ass, and the desire to see how much of the show that was written "without the source material being finished" actually feeling like it was written or influenced by Martin.

> Mary sue, patronizing storyteller king taking the power?
Check!
>Total apocalypse semi-averted with all of the other characters becoming evil or incompetent and getting killed off?
Check!

If you'd read Tuf Voyaging you would have know how this stuff would have ended.
Martin told them what to do, it went to shit, and he disavowed it.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Robert throws Jaime off the tower. Maybe some people on the ground see Jaime's naked body but Ned and Robert will ask their people to keep quiet for the sake of peace. Relations with the Tywin sours since his son got killed but there should be no further violence as Tywin is pragmatic and understands that it is not in his best interest to fight over this. Yeah he did fight against the Starks but that was after Robert was out of the picture and there was an easy way for Tywin to acquire power by being the force behind his son, the seemingly legitimate king who hasn't had time to sour relations with his vassals yet. If Tywin does fight then word gets out about the deeds his children committed and the Lannister name is tarnished and he loses standing and support. So he won't do it.

Cersei probably squeezes out of this. Robert is already a known adulterer with bastards, so if he were to divorce Cersei over this it wouldn't go down that well. If he disowns Joffrey and the others then that leaves the kingdom with no apparent heirs. Robert could theoretically take another wife and sire another heir but this is risky. Ned would be here to tell Robert to think of the bigger picture. Again more than likely the incident is hushed up. Robert will ignore Cersei. Without Jaime and with support from her father being less guaranteed, Cersei may be less likely to try to pull anything, and if she does then she goes down by herself with few or no one to back her up.

Most interesting thing is how Robert and Tywin would react to the children they have left. Tywin would be left with Tyrion as his only remaining son, who knows if he would start warming up to him. Robert might start taking a more critical look at Joffrey and stop letting him have a free pass, perhaps eyeing Tommen as the hope for being a good king and declare him the crown prince.

Lysa is probably the weakest link and if Petyr can't control her, the whole conspiracy could end very poorly very quickly for Petyr Baelish if during the course of uncovering the mystery, people focus on Lysa and her seeming knowledge of the conspiracy ahead of time.

For Petyr, provoking hostilities between the Lannisters and the rest of the Kingdom would likely buy him time to cover his ass as well as remove the Lannisters as a threat to him since he started the rumor implicating them after all.

I'd sure like to imagine that the characters would think about this, though given how the Popish plot happened IRL where Parliament just believed the accusations of a liar without thinking critically about how the accusations originated, this could easily be overlooked.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

If the pretty Lanister goes out the window Cersei loses her mind and gets killed too.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I'd sure like to imagine that the characters would think about this, though given how the Popish plot happened IRL where Parliament just believed the accusations of a liar without thinking critically about how the accusations originated, this could easily be overlooked.

Well the interesting there here is that it could very well be Tywin who would be the one to investigate the circumstances of Jaime's death as opposed to Ned Stark trying to figure out who killed Jon Arryn. And unlike Ned Stark, who depended on Petyr Baelish to help discover it was Petyr Baelish that was behind the conspiracy, in this case it would be Tywin Lannister investigating the conspiracy and he'll likely be getting help from someone most likely not Petyr Baelish (since they have no real direct relationship of substance anyways).

Tyrion Lannister might actually prove his worth in helping his Father with attempting to uncover the potential conspiracy and honestly, you'd have an entirely different set of characters that would be focused on instead of the Starks. If there's no war where Tywin Lannister is curbstomped into oblivion, you'd have him and Tyrion (who cared for Jaime deeply) as well as Cersei if she survives and in whatever capacity she might be found in. Plus Ilyn Payne (who didn't get much screentime because the actor died IIRC) and the Cleganes and Kevan Lannister and the other assorted minor Lannisters that mostly ended up dead in the main series. And that story could go a lot of ways.

 

[ATP]

Well the interesting there here is that it could very well be Tywin who would be the one to investigate the circumstances of Jaime's death as opposed to Ned Stark trying to figure out who killed Jon Arryn. And unlike Ned Stark, who depended on Petyr Baelish to help discover it was Petyr Baelish that was behind the conspiracy, in this case it would be Tywin Lannister investigating the conspiracy and he'll likely be getting help from someone most likely not Petyr Baelish (since they have no real direct relationship of substance anyways).

Tyrion Lannister might actually prove his worth in helping his Father with attempting to uncover the potential conspiracy and honestly, you'd have an entirely different set of characters that would be focused on instead of the Starks. If there's no war where Tywin Lannister is curbstomped into oblivion, you'd have him and Tyrion (who cared for Jaime deeply) as well as Cersei if she survives and in whatever capacity she might be found in. Plus Ilyn Payne (who didn't get much screentime because the actor died IIRC) and the Cleganes and Kevan Lannister and the other assorted minor Lannisters that mostly ended up dead in the main series. And that story could go a lot of ways.

Which could led to Varys helping Lannisters,so he get his war .And Targeryns really taking throne.Or maybe Blackfyres ?

 

[Agent23]

If the pretty Lanister goes out the window Cersei loses her mind and gets killed too.

Maybe she manages to get Robert with a poison dagger first.

Given that his stupidity is the cause of most of the problems of the realm, and the shitshow that came after, well...