What if Britain, and its Navy, is ISOT vanished in September 1901?

[raharris1973]

On September 17th, 1901, in South Africa, British Major Hubert Gough thinks he's caught a detachment of Boer fighters out in the open in Transvaal, near the Natal border, during what has been this year, the frustrating third, guerrilla phase of the Boer War.

By the end of 1900, the reinforced British forces had lifted all the Boer sieges of Cape and Natal cities and occupied the capitals of the Orange Free State and Transvaal and thought they'd won the war that was embarrassing them and having the rest of world cheer on their plucky Boer enemies.

But the Boer 'Commandos' had kept fighting with guerrilla tactics. Major Gough, who anticipated an opportunity to 'clean up' a detachment of these annoying Boer hit-and-runners, soon found himself surrounded by a much larger group of Boers than expected, much larger than his own force, tactically outmatched, and defeated, in the Battle of Blood River Poort - Wikipedia.

The defeat of Gough's force that day is the first Boer military victory in a while, although the Boers are unable to cross into Natal as they hoped. For most of the year it was mainly Boer elusiveness and persistence that had been embarrassing to British arms.

However, the war had become embarrassing to British honour and reputation internationally and at home based on the British command's tactic of placing Boer civilians in inadequately provisioned concentration camps to deny guerrilla fighting men support. This had gone out to the British, and international public through Emily Hobhouse's report of June 1901, and caused condemnation of government wartime policy domestically by Labour, and Liberal politicians Campbell-Bannerman and. David Lloyd-George, as well as among all among the Irish, and the publics and governments of Continental Europe, who sympathized with the Boers against British bullying over the last half-decade, and the American public.

After the Boer victory at Blood River Poort, which takes days to be relayed by telegraph to other parts of the world, strange things start happening all around the world. In ports, along coasts, and on the high seas everywhere, all British naval ships, and all British flagged and registered sea-worthy ships, are fading out of existence in mere moments, before vanishing totally.

The island of Britain itself, and its close offshore islets like Wight, similarly vanish into a fog in daytime, and over the next period of night, show scarcely any of the expected illumination as fog lifts, to foreign ships cruising nearby.

Multiple foreign ships begin to run aground that night in the darkness, with some badly damaged and sinking, with the only lights, or signs of habitation, visible to some of them from quite close-in looking like small campfires.

The next morning, wherever around the island foreign ships can get a clear view of shore, they see none of the expected ports and urban architecture and other works of man, mainly seeing endless woods and meadows. Where there are signs of human habitation, it is mostly simple mud and thatch huts, and the occasional stone fort, but no castles worthy of the name, and no expected cross-channel or cross-Irish sea daily ferries are coming forth from the island either.

Human figures on shore are in various states of undress, or primitive dress with tunics or robes of various types.

Some shipwreck survivors who managed to make it alive to shore and not get butchered by beach dwellers spears find it impossible to communicate intelligibly by words alone with people on the beach. It goes the same with a few intrepid landing parties sent out on small boats from foreign merchant ships. And for a few cases, of even braver local people from the island itself, who approach hulking, steaming foreign merchant ships and start trying to communicate with the people on decks by word and gesture.

One thing that is very clear to these islanders is that these foreigners on giant ships and shipwrecked castaways in strange clothes are not any of the usual foreigners or offshore people they know of or trade with.

Likewise, for the American, French, Dutch, German, Danish, and other foreign ships approaching Britain or making landfall, none of these people they are meeting are speaking English or acting like Englishmen.

Through a combination of trying words in different languages and gestures many of these foreigners, whether marooned onshore or in landing parties, try to establish and describe their own nationality/origin and get a self-description from the locals. Since the greatest amount of traffic is around the Dover/Kent and Thames estuary areas, the most common names the foreigners understand as self-descriptors are Belgae/Belgi, Canti/Cantiaci, Trinovanti/Trinovantes. So 'Belgium' and 'Kent' seem to be the most relatable geographical concepts.

The 20th century people do not know it exactly at the moment, but they have met the British people, and the Britain, of exactly 2000 years prior, of the year 99 BC. Celtic Britain a good 44 years before even Julius Caesar's first short-lived Roman invasion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar's_invasions_of_Britain

 

[raharris1973]

Recap of the world of September 17 1901:

September 1901 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Boxer Rebellion suppression had just wrapped up China, with the Boxer protocol being signed

Theodore Roosevelt had been sworn in as President three days prior after McKinley died from an infected wound from an assassin's bullet

Guglielmo Marconi would disappear with Britain while trying to set up the first Trans-Atlantic radio transmission. But there was a already a receiving station on the North American side, I would assume there were copies of the patent in other countries, and in any case, copies of transmitter/receiver equipment in multiple countries already.

Importantly, outside the disappearance of the island Britain proper, and its Navy and merchant marine, its empire and global string of territorial possessions does not disappear.

Ireland remains, Canada, the Cape Colony, India, Australia, New Zealand, Egypt, all the other African colonies and outposts in the Mediterranean, Caribbean, and Oceania.

But the absence of the Navy and merchant marine as a protecting and connecting 'tissue' for this global network of territories, it will have difficulty functioning as a whole, and would require a rebuild of its fleet and merchant shipping from decidedly second-string shipbuilding facilities in Ireland and Canada to regain its functioning global power status.

Surveying the situation around the world, with the sudden 'hollowing out' of the core of British power:

In South Africa, the Boers have a new hope with the British in country forces losing access to out-of-continent troop reinforcements and supplies. The Boers still have homework to do, with British forces based out of the Cape Colony and Rhodesia having the framework of territorial control and supply depots. But, without the back-up of the Royal navy to patrol and punish interlopers and contraband deliverers, sympathizers of the Boers, Dutch, Russians, Germans, French, Portuguese alike, can all traffic in arms to Boer guerrillas across the Portuguese East Africa/Mozambique colony, and even to a limited extent the German Southwest Afrika colony across the desert. If Cape Colony British forces try retaliating against Mozambique/Lorenco Marques/Maputo it may not end well for them, because the Portuguese can send reinforcements to protect it, and the Germans from Ost Afrika and/or French from Madagascar can reinforce and help protect the Portuguese in response.

Canada should lose all leverage on the Alaska boundary dispute, without a British advocate, and will have to pretty much take up representing its own cause to the Americans.

Ireland should be 'interesting' in the cursed Chinese sense. In theory, Ireland is the inheritor of the British Emperor, as the only remaining Kingdom of the United Kingdom still existing in its modern form, with many modern politicians and its modern administration around, and possibly some ability to find a royal relative somewhere. It also possesses some substantial industry, especially in Ulster, including, importantly, shipbuilding industry. It could be interesting to see the British Empire become effectively the Irish Empire.

But Ireland has challenges. Its Catholic majority has increasingly demanded Home Rule and an end to the Protestant Ascendancy, with a more radical grouping committed to Irish independence. This group will be immensely more confident with Britain banished and rendered a primitive backwater.

The regime in Ireland can gracefully adapt to a majority Irish-identifying, Catholic professing voting constituency, and reform democratically in line with its preferences while maintaining as much socioeconomic continuity and stability as possible.

Or not. Anglican or especially Ulster Presbyterian powers that be might attempt to keep a strong monopoly hold on all political, social, and economic power against the wishes and consent of the Catholic majority. They may be successful for some time, using their superior social capital, organization, administrative and military experience, and average wealth, to keep Catholic challenges suppressed, and ensure in any fighting casualties are much higher among Catholics than Protestants.

But that would over time force a narrow Ulster regime into increased paranoia and repression to hold its rule over the island in the face of ever increasing rebelliousness and international isolation.

It would likely make the island ripe for international complaint and intervention of some sort, even if just arms smuggling and infiltration by Irish (Catholic) Republican fighters, possibly abetted by majority Catholic countries like France and Spain, or countries with large Irish Catholic expat populations like the USA.

Distant Dominions of the British Empire, like Australia and New Zealand will feel quite lonely and isolated.

India will have its British ruling class atop its Indian masses, without the easy reinforcement and support of the British homeland. Ireland, with its probable troubles and tensions, will be a poor substitute.

Gibraltar will be prone to long-run siege and surrender to Spain. Malta, similarly to Italy. Cyprus, to the first and most determinedly moving local power, possibly Italy, the Ottomans, Greeks, or perhaps France.

As for Britain itself the countries of northwest Europe could and would be tempted to intervene and 'civilize' and protect parts of it. The British administration in Ireland, as long as it lasts, would argue it has the most legitimate claim. But France could assert a claim simply by exploration and force, and add a legitimizing element by saying the Celtic speaking elements are ethnolinguistically closer to the Bretons of France than any other 20th century people. Danes, Dutch and Germans could intervene by force in other parts of the island. The Italians could try to make a specious claim based on the Roman occupation that would be unenforceable.

Significantly, for the various powers of the world, France, Germany, Russia, Italy, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Japan, the USA, China, the disappearance of Britain and the British fleet means much freedom of action in power-politics geopolitical terms. We will see what they feel emboldened to do in the world in general, their specific neighborhoods, and towards British owned or British-protected territories near their own.

The disappearance of the British merchant marine means a slowdown in global trade and related economic activity, for sure, and the loss of a huge consumer market. However, the merchant fleets of other nations should see dramatic increases in profit, and be motivated to expand their capacities, and new countries with the means will probably enter the marketplace. Great manufacturing economies and firms from America, Germany, and France will likely see market opportunity trying to fill demand that British firms are no longer around to meet.

The world financial system is in even more disorder. The world's foremost source of investment finance is gone, which restricts such funds. On the other hand, the creditors of many of the world debtors disappear, wiping millions or even billions of pounds of debt off of balance sheets world wide and rendering many governments and business enterprises in better fiscal health and more ready to take on new risk or expansion.

For Europe and the world, a big item of cardinal importance over the first year, and then half decade after the disappearance of Britain will be the ability and willingness of France, Germany, and Russia to maintain peace and balance amongst each other while dealing with the power vacuum, or their inability to do so.

If they are able to maintain their peace and come to mutual agreements like in their Far Eastern Triplice against Japan of 1895, they could manage a substantial partition and redistribution of Britain's colonial holdings - For example Britain's West African possessions for France, Egypt and Sudan for France, Britain's Eastern and Southern African colonies for German, linking Germany's own possessions together, but with Cape Colony and Natal subordinated to the Boer Republics. Gibraltar to Spain, Malta and Cyprus to Italy. With India, perhaps the powers, more distant from it, could agitate for its independence and open trade with all. Russia could be recognized as primary influence in Afghanistan and Persia. Malaya might be left to primarily French influence with British Borneo to German.

If there is disagreement about shares, or if either Germany or France becomes convinced that it can do better acting more unilaterally, shutting out the other, than we can possibly bring on an earlier Franco-German war, bringing in their respective major allies like Russia and Austria-Hungary and possibly others in the early 1900s.

 

[raharris1973]

Who will benefit from the bye bye Britain power vacuum?

 

[Buba]

France and Germany are the big winners, IMO. One has the financial markets, the other the industry.
The global economic chaos is unimaginable!
Any speculation about India needs clarification - are the British units still there? I take that yes? IMO the Imperial Adminstration there keeps the sub-continent going - it has more than enough money to pay the European and Native troops and the Civil Service.

 

[Navarro]

British Empire collapses, US hegemony comes much earlier.

 

[Buba]

US hegemony comes much earlier.

Debatable.
Here the US lost its biggest export market and greatest provider of capital. There will be no Great War which was a game changing boost for the US.
I see American economic growth set back three decades or so.
The other Great Powers will be hit by Britain's perfidious disappearance, some more, some less than the USA. But no WWI means that they do not ruin themselves while paying for the USA's growth. Paris moves from 2nd financial capital of the world to first place and stays there for at least a generation.
Anybody have international trade figures for 1900? The less a country traded with the UK the better it fares here.

It is possible that the British adminstration of Ireland gets international recognition as holder/protector of Britain. The alternative is partition between Germany and France, if these come to an agreement. If they do not - then either "keep it native/rump UK" or war. And neither power may have a stomach for war at that time.

 

[Navarro]

The thing is, the US' natural advantages make it pretty inevitable as a major world power. It has good resources (including large supplies of oil) and the advantages of both a major land power in having lots of clay AND a major naval power in being an ocean away from any significant threats.

 

[Skallagrim]

Where there are signs of human habitation, it is mostly simple mud and thatch huts, and the occasional stone fort, but no castles worthy of the name, and no expected cross-channel or cross-Irish sea daily ferries are coming forth from the island either.

Human figures on shore are in various states of undress, or primitive dress with tunics or robes of various types.

The 20th century people do not know it exactly at the moment, but they have met the British people, and the Britain, of exactly 2000 years prior, of the year 99 BC.

A bit of an inconsequential point, but you're misrepresenting the native peoples of Great Britain here. While primitive by today's standard, they were connected to a wider trade network whose other end was in the Near East, and they weren't half-naked savages with a few shitty huts.

You'd be seeing villages surrounded by well-built palisades, people dressed in clother rather than half-naked or clad in furs, and there would be fishing boats and the such all along the coast.

All of which is more interesting anyway.

Ireland remains, Canada, the Cape Colony, India, Australia, New Zealand, Egypt, all the other African colonies and outposts in the Mediterranean, Caribbean, and Oceania.

But the absence of the Navy and merchant marine as a protecting and connecting 'tissue' for this global network of territories, it will have difficulty functioning as a whole, and would require a rebuild of its fleet and merchant shipping from decidedly second-string shipbuilding facilities in Ireland and Canada to regain its functioning global power status.

The empire will not be able to continue existing in any real form. Rebuilding anything resembling a real navy will take time (and considerable investment). In the meantime, the several constituent parts of the former empire will all be going their own way. By them time they could re-unite, they most probably won't want to.

In South Africa, the Boers have a new hope with the British in country forces losing access to out-of-continent troop reinforcements and supplies. The Boers still have homework to do, with British forces based out of the Cape Colony and Rhodesia having the framework of territorial control and supply depots. But, without the back-up of the Royal navy to patrol and punish interlopers and contraband deliverers, sympathizers of the Boers, Dutch, Russians, Germans, French, Portuguese alike, can all traffic in arms to Boer guerrillas across the Portuguese East Africa/Mozambique colony, and even to a limited extent the German Southwest Afrika colony across the desert. If Cape Colony British forces try retaliating against Mozambique/Lorenco Marques/Maputo it may not end well for them, because the Portuguese can send reinforcements to protect it, and the Germans from Ost Afrika and/or French from Madagascar can reinforce and help protect the Portuguese in response.

The Dutch sent a warship to evacuate Kruger in OTL, and were highly sympathetic to the Boer cause. The Germans as well, and the Dutch monarch was in turn rather inclined towards siding with Germany in international affairs. I think that these two, in particular, won't just ship arms to the Boers, but will actively intervene on their behalf.

Canada should lose all leverage on the Alaska boundary dispute, without a British advocate, and will have to pretty much take up representing its own cause to the Americans.

With Britain gone, the Canadian economy becomes entirely an appendage of the USA. It'll soon be a vassal state in all but name. Nor is it unthinkable that in time, Canada gets outright absorbed into the USA.

Ireland should be 'interesting' in the cursed Chinese sense. In theory, Ireland is the inheritor of the British Emperor, as the only remaining Kingdom of the United Kingdom still existing in its modern form, with many modern politicians and its modern administration around, and possibly some ability to find a royal relative somewhere. It also possesses some substantial industry, especially in Ulster, including, importantly, shipbuilding industry. It could be interesting to see the British Empire become effectively the Irish Empire.

But Ireland has challenges. Its Catholic majority has increasingly demanded Home Rule and an end to the Protestant Ascendancy, with a more radical grouping committed to Irish independence. This group will be immensely more confident with Britain banished and rendered a primitive backwater.

The regime in Ireland can gracefully adapt to a majority Irish-identifying, Catholic professing voting constituency, and reform democratically in line with its preferences while maintaining as much socioeconomic continuity and stability as possible.

Or not. Anglican or especially Ulster Presbyterian powers that be might attempt to keep a strong monopoly hold on all political, social, and economic power against the wishes and consent of the Catholic majority. They may be successful for some time, using their superior social capital, organization, administrative and military experience, and average wealth, to keep Catholic challenges suppressed, and ensure in any fighting casualties are much higher among Catholics than Protestants.

But that would over time force a narrow Ulster regime into increased paranoia and repression to hold its rule over the island in the face of ever increasing rebelliousness and international isolation.

It would likely make the island ripe for international complaint and intervention of some sort, even if just arms smuggling and infiltration by Irish (Catholic) Republican fighters, possibly abetted by majority Catholic countries like France and Spain, or countries with large Irish Catholic expat populations like the USA.

I think you over-estimate the Ulster Protestants. Without support from Great Britain, they'll be toast before too long. The more likely scenario is a very bloody civil war, which ends with the complete extermination of any Protestant presence in Ireland after a few years.

There will be Protestants desperately fleeing to the West Coast of Great Britain, no doubt, who will try to set up a new homeland for themselves. Which may or may not succeed.

Ireland will receive support and recognition from, to begin with, all of Catholic Europe.

Distant Dominions of the British Empire, like Australia and New Zealand will feel quite lonely and isolated.

Australia and New Zealand become sovereign countries. To avoid potential predation by other powers, they'll buddy up the USA.

India will have its British ruling class atop its Indian masses, without the easy reinforcement and support of the British homeland. Ireland, with its probable troubles and tensions, will be a poor substitute.

It's possible, but only in a 'Anghrizi Raj' sort of way. That is: the white ruling class stays in charge by essentially 'going naitive' and becoming the top caste of Indian society.

If they try to remain "English overlords", they face permanent resistance, and without external support, that's a game you lose.

Gibraltar will be prone to long-run siege and surrender to Spain. Malta, similarly to Italy. Cyprus, to the first and most determinedly moving local power, possibly Italy, the Ottomans, Greeks, or perhaps France.

Agreed. Who gets Cyprus is indeed a big toss-up, though.

As for Britain itself the countries of northwest Europe could and would be tempted to intervene and 'civilize' and protect parts of it. The British administration in Ireland, as long as it lasts, would argue it has the most legitimate claim. But France could assert a claim simply by exploration and force, and add a legitimizing element by saying the Celtic speaking elements are ethnolinguistically closer to the Bretons of France than any other 20th century people. Danes, Dutch and Germans could intervene by force in other parts of the island. The Italians could try to make a specious claim based on the Roman occupation that would be unenforceable.

France, the Netherlands and Denmark have the best odds here, I'd say.

For Europe and the world, a big item of cardinal importance over the first year, and then half decade after the disappearance of Britain will be the ability and willingness of France, Germany, and Russia to maintain peace and balance amongst each other while dealing with the power vacuum, or their inability to do so.

If they are able to maintain their peace and come to mutual agreements like in their Far Eastern Triplice against Japan of 1895, they could manage a substantial partition and redistribution of Britain's colonial holdings - For example Britain's West African possessions for France, Egypt and Sudan for France, Britain's Eastern and Southern African colonies for German, linking Germany's own possessions together, but with Cape Colony and Natal subordinated to the Boer Republics. Gibraltar to Spain, Malta and Cyprus to Italy. With India, perhaps the powers, more distant from it, could agitate for its independence and open trade with all. Russia could be recognized as primary influence in Afghanistan and Persia. Malaya might be left to primarily French influence with British Borneo to German.

If there is disagreement about shares, or if either Germany or France becomes convinced that it can do better acting more unilaterally, shutting out the other, than we can possibly bring on an earlier Franco-German war, bringing in their respective major allies like Russia and Austria-Hungary and possibly others in the early 1900s.

Germany will correctly deduce that its enemies have been struck an unmatched blow, with the sudden disappearance of Britain and its navy. It is unquestionably in the German interest to force a war as soon as possible, before the enemy alliance can in any way recover. Without the navy, not even the former Dominions can interfere (not that I really think they would), and without the Royal Navy to endanger the Germans out on the seas, there is little risk of extreme actions that would prompts America to intervene.

In other words: you get World War I, but at least a decade early, and it's the Central Powers of OTL versus... France and Russia, basically. (For instance: Italy isn't going to get involved if the odds are like that!)

As I mentioned, the Netherlands would be very much inclined to opportunistically side with Germany, while it would be in the interest of Scandinavia to be studiously neutral. The outcome would almost certainly be that France and Russia get crushed. Without Britain, geopolitics is a free-for-all. there would be no restraint in the peace terms. This would be the one golden chance to impose your will without any back-talk.

To put a long story short: by disappearing Britain and its navy, you have made the Kaiser the happiest man on Earth. All his dreams have come true. All his prayers have been answered.

 

[Buba]

Who gets Cyprus is indeed a big toss-up, though.

France, of course. It was very upset over Britain taking it in 1878.

It is unquestionably in the German interest to force a war as soon as possible, before the enemy alliance can in any way recover.

This is pre-Entente. French-Russian pact stronk.
Germany also is affected by the global economic backlash.
France has better artillery.
The chairs of the Concert of Powers are shuffled around - with looming Germany hegemony A-H and/or Italy rethink their alliances? Without British power behind Balance of Power - France and/or Russia rethink their priorities?

The thing is, the US' natural advantages make it pretty inevitable as a major world power.

True. But IMO Britain "going away" will not speed up America's ascendency.

BTW - there could be an interesting impact on South African demographics - 250-350k British soldiers. Mostly unmarried men with no homes to go back to. Even if the war ends with withdrawal from the Boer Republics and dispersal of many - or most - across the Anglosphere - the Cape, Natal, maybe South Rhodesia could add 100k or more white men to the genepool?

 

[raharris1973]

British Empire collapses, US hegemony comes much earlier.

This is a potential outcome, but it is no straight line process. In our timeline the US collaborated with the UK on its rise up, and provided support to Britain while sucking resources from it in an exchange of favors and power, without the UK, American has to make comparable arrangements with other powers, or outright compete directly with them.

 

[ATP]

Who will benefit from the bye bye Britain power vacuum?

Depend,if we have WW1 earlier,or not.
In case of war,whoever win.And i do not think,that german victory here is sure.

Without war - Russia,Germany and France - till WW1 start,and again - later whoever win.

China is crushed here on schedule,and Japan and other countries which did so would get more thanks to lack of England.

Ireland would be free again - and maybe even take part of England.India - free again,unless Russia try to take over.Dunno how good chances they would have,i doubt if in 1901 russian army could walk there,not mention fight entire way.

 

[raharris1973]

India - free again,unless Russia try to take over.Dunno how good chances they would have,i doubt if in 1901 russian army could walk there,not mention fight entire way.

I think India will be too far for Russia to swallow and too big for any of the naval powers to swallow, so a locally based regime or regimes would end up controlling it, including or excluding whatever British ingredients are in the country, and relying on loyalty of enough Indian groups.

BTW - there could be an interesting impact on South African demographics - 250-350k British soldiers. Mostly unmarried men with no homes to go back to. Even if the war ends with withdrawal from the Boer Republics and dispersal of many - or most - across the Anglosphere - the Cape, Natal, maybe South Rhodesia could add 100k or more white men to the genepool?

Matches of these fellas with Boer brides and widows could happen, but 'family reunions' with father-in-laws they were just fighting in the bush might be awkward. The Boer civilians on getting released from concentration camps will have some hatred and resentment of the British troops. On the other hand, there's some "attraction" to healthy men who for now seem to have access to rations from Cape Colony and Natal. But the Boer girls from the concentration camps will probably need a little nutrition and 'fattening up' to start to look interesting to the soldiers. Then again, they are a long way from home, with few white women around.

 

[Buba]

The are Cape Boer (there are about as many of them as Orange and Transvaal Boer combined) girls around. And Kolored girls, too. Bantu as well ...

 

[ATP]

I think India will be too far for Russia to swallow and too big for any of the naval powers to swallow, so a locally based regime or regimes would end up controlling it, including or excluding whatever British ingredients are in the country, and relying on loyalty of enough Indian groups.


Matches of these fellas with Boer brides and widows could happen, but 'family reunions' with father-in-laws they were just fighting in the bush might be awkward. The Boer civilians on getting released from concentration camps will have some hatred and resentment of the British troops. On the other hand, there's some "attraction" to healthy men who for now seem to have access to rations from Cape Colony and Natal. But the Boer girls from the concentration camps will probably need a little nutrition and 'fattening up' to start to look interesting to the soldiers. Then again, they are a long way from home, with few white women around.

Exactly my thoughs.Russia dreamed about taking India in XIX century,,and twice almost we have war over it then - but i doubt,if tsar was capable of sending his army there,even if nobody fough them.


Another thing - 99BC World with 1901 England.

That is real change - becouse England here would rule entire world,without need for plaing one countries against others.
And, till our times they would probably take over part of our Galaxy.

 

[raharris1973]

Another thing - 99BC World with 1901 England.

That is real change - becouse England here would rule entire world,without need for plaing one countries against others.
And, till our times they would probably take over part of our Galaxy.

But, this type of idea is so overused and boring. Let's boost up Britain, America even more with no competition.

And I havre strong doubts about special extra space advancements into orbit, the planets or into interstellar or galactic space. Britain here has smart people and industry, but they are lacking the industry and modern educated ideas of the entire rest of the world, and lacking the competition to have to impress or intimidate anyone. They might not have seriously bothered to send a human to the moon. Maybe not a man to orbit. Probably rockets and useful satellites for communication and weather into orbital space, but maybe not even that.

 

[ATP]

But, this type of idea is so overused and boring. Let's boost up Britain, America even more with no competition.

And I havre strong doubts about special extra space advancements into orbit, the planets or into interstellar or galactic space. Britain here has smart people and industry, but they are lacking the industry and modern educated ideas of the entire rest of the world, and lacking the competition to have to impress or intimidate anyone. They might not have seriously bothered to send a human to the moon. Maybe not a man to orbit. Probably rockets and useful satellites for communication and weather into orbital space, but maybe not even that.

Maybe? i remember,that people in 1901 belived in science.I think,that they would keep developing it - with entire Earth resources to keep!

P.S they could save megafauna on Madagascar and New Zealand by taking both islands and do not letting any natives there.

 

[raharris1973]

Maybe? i remember,that people in 1901 belived in science.I think,that they would keep developing it - with entire Earth resources to keep!

P.S they could save megafauna on Madagascar and New Zealand by taking both islands and do not letting any natives there.

Regarding the megafauna, they *might* think of it before shooting them all and making trophies for mounting displays. They'd surely get some of them moving on film recording.

 

[Buba]

P.S they could save megafauna on Madagascar and New Zealand by taking both islands and do not letting any natives there.

Very interesting point that those two islands are uninhabited in 100BC.
I don't think that the Edwardians would wipe out the megafauna. Hunt for trophies, doubtlessly, but no settlement. Too far for no gain, with so much free clay nearer.

 

[Scottty]

Exactly my thoughs.Russia dreamed about taking India in XIX century,,and twice almost we have war over it then - but i doubt,if tsar was capable of sending his army there,even if nobody fough them.

Actually yes. Read up on what they called the "Great Game".

Another thing - 99BC World with 1901 England.

That is real change - becouse England here would rule entire world,without need for plaing one countries against others.
And, till our times they would probably take over part of our Galaxy.

1901 England without any of it's empire?

 

[raharris1973]

1901 England without any of it's empire?

Yes - That is what he meant.

And although I did *not* want to go down the rabbit hole of this idea, which is the *reverse* the mirror image opposite of the main scenario in this thread, I will indulge it a little more by posting a world map from that time period, 100 BC.



As you can see, the Roman Republic is an expanding great power, but not at full extension. It occupies the entire European shore of the Mediterranean continuously from Spain to Greece, but has not conquered the interior and extent of Gaul yet, and in Africa, only controls the tip of Tunisia, and in Asia only the tip of Turkey.

Britain can re-subordinate India, Egypt, China, Persia to its trade domination pretty much immediately without the Romans being able to say boo about it. The Romans would find the British a useful trading partner, as would the tribal folk of the North and Baltic Seas.

Britain's most pressing need would be to increase farm acreage under cultivation for sufficient staple food or at least food at affordable cost, so they'll teach others how to farm better and try to set up some colonial agribusiness farms on other continents, in the Americas, Khoisan South Africa, and the Antipodes. They would also set up colonial mining and resource extraction sites. The trick will be starting these from scratch in pure wilderness and finding the right mix of skilled and hardy labor which will have to be compensated at a high wage in 1901 British terms, but then again, all British consumers/workers will be forced to absorb big cost of living increases for food, cotton based textiles, tobacco products, sweets, chocolate, coffee, tea, and other typically imported items. Coal stove warmed homes and peas and potatoes for dinner should remain affordable, with the price of butter and cheese not getting too crazy (although animal feed costs can affect dairy), but lots of things are going up.