Battletech Welcome to the Jungle

[PsihoKekec]

In MegaMekLab you can pull stats of any canon unit. Link
For LCF-R15 it's 63/38/38/37 at 5/8, but as I said, the biggest downside is the fluff lack of ejection system.

Stingray is five tons lighter 60/45/45/38 at 6/9 and it has a PPC in original variant.
I'd take Hellcat over Lucifer as well and not just due to my childhood crush on the WWII airplane.

 

[Doomsought]

Armor is even more important for an ASF than a 'mech, because a hit from a weapon can do a "through armor critical" and damage internal systems if your armor is less than ten times the weapons value (that's total armor, not current). So if you've got 49 points of armor on your nose, a medium laser or LRM cluster can punch through and kill the pilot. With 100 points of armor, only an AC20 can do that with level 1 weaponry.

This is also why the Long tom Cannon is the best AA weapon in the game. They will make a bird run hot, and take slightly more research than chopping half the barrel off a standard long-tom, but AC-20 damage at roundabouts Ac-2 range. You can get similar performance from a thunderbolt-20, with less heat and weapon mass, but it is worse in all other ways, especially R&D.

 

[Bear Ribs]

This is also why the Long tom Cannon is the best AA weapon in the game. They will make a bird run hot, and take slightly more research than chopping half the barrel off a standard long-tom, but AC-20 damage at roundabouts Ac-2 range. You can get similar performance from a thunderbolt-20, with less heat and weapon mass, but it is worse in all other ways, especially R&D.

Long Tom Cannons do their damage in 5-point clusters though, so they don't get through-armor criticals against most fighters. Granted they're death incarnate on lightly armored models like the Chippewa where they can TAC every location but everything else does that too.

 

[Doomsought]

Long Tom Cannons do their damage in 5-point clusters though, so they don't get through-armor criticals against most fighters. Granted they're death incarnate on lightly armored models like the Chippewa where they can TAC every location but everything else does that too.

When used on aerospace units they are treated as auto-cannon, and don't do AOE damage.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I thought this means only that they don't damage nearby hexes.

Also it seems to me that Heavy Gauss Rifle is better than Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle in the aerospace.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Yeah, that was errata'd. They're still area effect weapons in space, it's just that they're single hex area of effect. Nothing in the revised rules indicates they don't still do cluster damage.

The good news is that, as they are still AE weapons, they do extra damage vs. reflective armor. Said armor previously was basically pure bonus on aerospace units since nothing did the damage that reflective was vulnerable to before, so that helps balance things out.

 

[Speaker4thesilent]

if your armor is less than ten times the weapons value (that's total armor, not current). So if you've got 49 points of armor on your nose, a medium laser or LRM cluster can punch through and kill the pilot. With 100 points of armor, only an AC20 can do that with level 1 weaponry.

This is almost, but not quite correct. TAC covering always rounds up. If you have 91 armor on a facing, you’re immune to TACs from AC-10s and PPCs, for instance, and I’ve modified the TAC rules a bit. LRMs, in this system, can not TAC. SRMs can only TAC if armor on a location is 10 or less. But damaged armor means that hits that couldn’t TAC intact armor can TAC damaged plate.

Consequently probably the most reviled aerospace fighter is the Chippewa

This, however, is absolutely correct. The Davion -W10 variant is rendered a much better bird by the simple expedient of removing 2 LLs and replacing them with their mass in armor.

Speed matters of course and ASF lose speed when they add more bombs so ones that are going to be dropping bombs on the enemy, but that just has be balanced with engine size.

In this system speed also matters for atmospheric dogfights because relative speed gives a bonus on the piloting check to get on another ASF’s tail.

In my opinion one of the top fighters of the era here is the Stingray. It's slightly undersinked but not terribly, it needs a large laser or better to TAC the nose (Wings are vulnerable to medium laser or better), and it packs three big guns in the form of a PPC and two large lasers (along with a pair of medium lasers). It would generate three TACs against the Lucifer's nose and five against the Chippewa's on an Alpha strike, though such a strike isn't advised due to heat. It's armor is slightly thin (still a half ton ahead of the Lucifer despite being smaller), it would be better served by dropping the medium lasers for two more tons of armor. Oh, and it's faster than either of them.

I rate it as a very good Second-Rate Dogfighter. Frankly, for First-Rate the Eagle/Transgressor clones stand alone. The meta for Introtech ASFs is to accept some heat for a devastating Alpha Strike in the head-to-head pass. As such, the Stingray is built to heat up with the LLs and PPC, then cool by removing a primary weapon or weapons in favor of the MLs until it can safely hit the Big Red Button again. As long as you fight it the way it is intended to be fought, it is an extremely effective dogfighter.

That, of course, is why the Lyrans don’t like it. Witnessed the abomination of the -90S.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Say how large will Weber's Warriors be by the 4th Succession War? I'm assuming at least a couple regiments of mechs and supporting units including at least a couple ASF wings and that's if they're growing very slowly which given how they have their own factories and homeworld isn't likely.

 

[Speaker4thesilent]

Say how large will Weber's Warriors be by the 4th Succession War? I'm assuming at least a couple regiments of mechs and supporting units including at least a couple ASF wings and that's if they're growing very slowly which given how they have their own factories and homeworld isn't likely.

For the first decade? Katrina is going to snap up every last bit of Lostech that he can put out. After that, he might be able to build up some.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

For the first decade? Katrina is going to snap up every last bit of Lostech that he can put out. After that, he might be able to build up some.

Honestly I suspected this would be the case. Of course some of the profits from selling said LosTech can be put into expanding the forces protecting the factories that build them, if nothing else getting more ASF's wouldn't be a bad idea. By the way was the lone Stingray that's part of the ASF wing given freezers to fix its slight undersinked problem

 

[Speaker4thesilent]

Honestly I suspected this would be the case. Of course some of the profits from selling said LosTech can be put into expanding the forces protecting the factories that build them, if nothing else getting more ASF's wouldn't be a bad idea. By the way was the lone Stingray that's part of the ASF wing given freezers to fix its slight undersinked problem

The Stingray has had a very basic fix done: pull the in-engine sinks for freezers, and replace the standard plate with Ferro-Aluminum. Heat problem goes away, right now, and the armor becomes much better.

And, yes, the LCAF will likely be providing an Aero Regiment eventually.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

I was moreso thinking of additional ASF's that are organic to Weber's Warriors and not simply LCAF units assigned to defend Catchan like it was made of solid gold but honestly both of these being things isn't a bad idea. By the way with parts and labor provided by the Lyran Government are there any more dropships that are fixable on Catchan or are they not worth the effort?

 

[Speaker4thesilent]

I was moreso thinking of additional ASF's that are organic to Weber's Warriors and not simply LCAF units assigned to defend Catchan like it was made of solid gold but honestly both of these being things isn't a bad idea. By the way with parts and labor provided by the Lyran Government are there any more dropships that are fixable on Catchan or are they not worth the effort?

Reconditioning then would require a factory level rebuild. It’s not worth it.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Reconditioning then would require a factory level rebuild. It’s not worth it.

So basically in time they'll be torn apart for materials and parts then, heck said parts might be able to used to restore a few lesser damaged dropshops that the LCAF has in it's inventory

 

[Knowledgeispower]

@Speaker4thesilent am I correct in assuming the reason why Katrina will gobble up all the Lostech Catachan will produce for the next decade in large part because that's how long it will take to set up other facilities to produce it and train the workforce for them. By the way thanks for taking your precious time to answer my questions I really do appreciate it

 

[Speaker4thesilent]

@Speaker4thesilent am I correct in assuming the reason why Katrina will gobble up all the Lostech Catachan will produce for the next decade in large part because that's how long it will take to set up other facilities to produce it and train the workforce for them. By the way thanks for taking your precious time to answer my questions I really do appreciate it

Yeah, ten years is the minimum to get Foundtech production going on a world without a strong tech base. A 'strong tech base' being a place like Tharkad, Donegal, Hesperus II, etc.

And don’t worry. Reader involvement feeds my muse.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Yeah, ten years is the minimum to get Foundtech production going on a world with a strong tech base: a place like Tharkad, Donegal, Hesperus II, etc.

And don’t worry. Reader involvement feeds my muse.

Of course that's with having people available who understand how to make the factories work to train the people who will train the rest the workforce and the factories to train them in, otherwise I assume it would take at least another half decade to get production seriously started. I'm assuming said training won't be free either which will be a nice chunk of change to Catachan. By the way did you read my edit on one of my earlier posts on how the parts salvaged from the Catchan Dropship Graveyard can presumably be used to fix other dropships in the LCAF inventory. And thanks for liking reader involvement it really does help keep me intrested in a story when the author enjoys it and indeed takes ideas from it. Heck that's why I like quests a fair bit

 

[Tryglaw]

Of course that's with having people available who understand how to make the factories work to train the people who will train the rest the workforce and the factories to train them in, otherwise I assume it would take at least another half decade to get production seriously started. I'm assuming said training won't be free either.

If I understood the chapter explaining the data core correctly, the information provided did include both the "how" and the "why". This should go a very long way in helping kickstart production, especially when this information is provided to people already in the business of making this type of hardware, even if of lesser level of technology. After all, they aren't starting with an empty field where they mean to build a factory or two, they are starting with already existing industry in the business of making lower tier of the stuff - if you give the engineers employed the "hows" and the "whys", this should enormously reduce the problems in shifting to higher tech produce, as they don't have to figure out by trial and error the equivalent of "gee, what does this button do?"

As for training, it should be free to spread the knowledge as far and fast and wide as possible.

 

[Atarlost]

I rate it as a very good Second-Rate Dogfighter. Frankly, for First-Rate the Eagle/Transgressor clones stand alone. The meta for Introtech ASFs is to accept some heat for a devastating Alpha Strike in the head-to-head pass. As such, the Stingray is built to heat up with the LLs and PPC, then cool by removing a primary weapon or weapons in favor of the MLs until it can safely hit the Big Red Button again. As long as you fight it the way it is intended to be fought, it is an extremely effective dogfighter.

The catch is that at +5 heat you get a random movement check, which can kill you if there's something nearby to collide with like a planet, an atmospheric boundary, a dropship, your wingman, etc. Mechs don't really worry until the gunnery penalty at +9 unless -1 movement loses them movement modifier and they can't resort to jumping.

A Stingray builds +6 heat firing the three big guns, which means random a movement check. It may have been better under AT2 if those rules didn't have random movement checks, but under TW it's flawed. Most things are with the way wing arcs changed, but the Stingray is flawed in a way none of the others save the Chippewa are.

In your place, if you have a factory for Rampage engines and think you can tool up a factory given specs, I'd try to convince Katrina to turn the screws on Bauer Industries to get them to sell the license if they can't or won't build the things. All the advanced tech Rampages have a 340 XLFE that lets you do a near-Royal version. Drop one heatsink it arguably doesn't need and the Artemis ant the armor can go up to Eagle/Transgressor levels. PPCs (as the original had) can be freely substituted for the LPLs if those aren't available.

Fairchild Dornier's Samurai is another nice out of production design by a Lyran company, though one where I'd look more at selling them the tooling since they don't build it for the very good reason that their factory got blown up. And I don't think you have the right engine unless you divert 300 XLs from the Phoenix line to replace the 250 standard.

Another option is to try to get the rights to make Chippewas or Thunderbirds, which may be able to be scaled up or down to use the Orca engine more easily than an entirely new design could be created. The royal T-bird is a dual Gauss design so making it into an Orca clone may not be out of the question.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Maybe Katrina will convince Lockheed-CBM to put Thunderbird back into production and use advanced technologies, by the way of nicely compensating CAC.

Yeah, ten years is the minimum to get Foundtech production going on a world with a strong tech base: a place like Tharkad, Donegal, Hesperus II, etc.

So if the stars are right we might see Gauss rifle Atlas in time for OTL 4th SW

As for training, it should be free to spread the knowledge as far and fast and wide as possible.

The problem is security though, they want to keep the knowledge out the hands of Dracs and Mariks, so at least initially these concerns will moderate their desire to expand the tech base fast. So first will be the trusted manofacturers in secure locations like Hesperus, others following later, but not by too much, afterall sooner or later their enemies will salvage some of the machines with the advance technology and reverse engineer it, but that is harder and much longer road.