Warhammer Warhammer General discussion thread: Now with 100% more Space Marines

Battlegrinder

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Obozny
@Battlegrinder

As a complete beginner who haven't even bought anything yet (actually, given all the advice online that I should focus on the models and lore I like rather than how newbie-friendly the gameplay is, I'm heavily leaning Tau at the moment), would you say I should ignore all that stuff about swapping weapons for now, at least until I get a few models assembled and painted in my figurative resume? Magnetizing sounds like a verh advanced technique.

That somewhat depends on faction. If you're doing marines, you can probably avoid having to magnetize anything for a while, until you have a more solid understanding of painting and modeling.

If you're doing Tau, you might not have that luxury, particularly if you go heavy on crisis suits. You'll want to build those with swappable weapons and equipment, it will be prohibitively expensive to build up a collection of crisis suits with all the different configurations you'll use fixed in place.

People are correct that you should pick a faction that you enjoy the models and lore for, you're going to spend far more time building and painting then playing so it's important you enjoy that side of the hobby. That said, I would not make the your solo criteria, unless you really, really, really love the look or story of something and don't care about performance (and speaking as someone that owns an Arvus Lighter*, I completely understand and support that mindset), how well it does on the tabletop is a factor that's worth considering.

I don't know how Tau do these days, I've heard they're in a bad spot because 9th edition rules just don't favor them, but I haven't faced a real Tau army yet so I can't speak from my own experience on that either.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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That somewhat depends on faction. If you're doing marines, you can probably avoid having to magnetize anything for a while, until you have a more solid understanding of painting and modeling.

If you're doing Tau, you might not have that luxury, particularly if you go heavy on crisis suits. You'll want to build those with swappable weapons and equipment, it will be prohibitively expensive to build up a collection of crisis suits with all the different configurations you'll use fixed in place.

People are correct that you should pick a faction that you enjoy the models and lore for, you're going to spend far more time building and painting then playing so it's important you enjoy that side of the hobby. That said, I would not make the your solo criteria, unless you really, really, really love the look or story of something and don't care about performance (and speaking as someone that owns an Arvus Lighter*, I completely understand and support that mindset), how well it does on the tabletop is a factor that's worth considering.

I don't know how Tau do these days, I've heard they're in a bad spot because 9th edition rules just don't favor them, but I haven't faced a real Tau army yet so I can't speak from my own experience on that either.
Like.me and IG. I love the lore and anesthetic behind them.more then anything
 

GoldRanger

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That somewhat depends on faction. If you're doing marines, you can probably avoid having to magnetize anything for a while, until you have a more solid understanding of painting and modeling.

If you're doing Tau, you might not have that luxury, particularly if you go heavy on crisis suits. You'll want to build those with swappable weapons and equipment, it will be prohibitively expensive to build up a collection of crisis suits with all the different configurations you'll use fixed in place.

People are correct that you should pick a faction that you enjoy the models and lore for, you're going to spend far more time building and painting then playing so it's important you enjoy that side of the hobby. That said, I would not make the your solo criteria, unless you really, really, really love the look or story of something and don't care about performance (and speaking as someone that owns an Arvus Lighter*, I completely understand and support that mindset), how well it does on the tabletop is a factor that's worth considering.

I don't know how Tau do these days, I've heard they're in a bad spot because 9th edition rules just don't favor them, but I haven't faced a real Tau army yet so I can't speak from my own experience on that either.

I mean, there are other interesting factions, but the Tau are the only ones that make me want to look up different painting schemes, or pour over their lore on wiki etc. Space Marines are cool (I've considered getting Salamanders when I first started asking questions here), but they don't have that effect on me. And I also really, really like the idea of a sophisticated, firepower-heavy army that sucks at melee. That's why Tau are probably the ones I'm going with.

From watching YouTube commentators I think Tau are basically bottom tier at the moment due to the reason you mentioned. Still, by the time I amass enough models for a battle forged army (I don't want to dump a lot of money all at once so I'll be buying them slowly, not to mention it'll take ages to assemble and paint) maybe a new codex will come out that'll fix them.

Tomorrow I'm going to the store with a friend whom I convinced to give the hobby a chance (he's very hesitant, but he's been reading the Horus Heresy books so he's clued in to the lore at least in part), we'll see how it goes. I could end up giving up on the idea of collecting an army after all, who knows.
 

GoldRanger

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Sooooo, I'm pretty sure now that I'm going to start with Tau, and the friend I shanghaied into the hobby says he's into AdMech. Now that I have another member in my financial suicide pact, I'll probably start with a "Start Collecting!" kit next week (if it's in stock), and will make sure to post pics once I have my first model assembled and painted (which may take forever).

Aside from @Battlegrinder who collects Dark Angels, and @Zachowon who is into Imperial Guard, what're everyone else here collecting?
 

Battlegrinder

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I've actually got IG and Khorne as well, plus a pair of knights.

I also technically have a nid list I've used a handful of times, but it's less a list and more just the idea of "bring a big horde of carnifexs", and also it has no actual nid models and instead I just use my collection of Bohrok as proxies.

I'll probably start with a "Start Collecting!" kit next week (if it's in stock), and will make sure to post pics once I have my first model assembled and painted (which may take forever).

The Tau start collecting box is a pretty good starting point, but as always, I'd advise you get something cheaper and more disposable to practice on. The first few models are the ones you learn the most on (and screw up the worst), might as well do it to something you didn't pay like 60 bucks for.

Do you have a color scheme in mind? Even if you don't, I'd advise getting the citadel paint app, it's a really, really useful tool for designing color schemes or learning what paints to use to create a given effect. Not that's the citadel paint app, not the warhammer app, the warhammer app is garbage (if you want a list building tool, get battlescribe). There's also an app called impcat, which I've heard rave reviews for, but I don't use it so can't confirm it myself.

Otherwise, what I said here might be helpful.

friend I shanghaied into the hobby says he's into AdMech

Oh, that poor soul.
 

GoldRanger

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Do you have a color scheme in mind?

Yep, I want my Tau green, with at least some parts in "drab" variety. Going to try for a gritty realistic military look (and will probably fail miserably).

Even if you don't, I'd advise getting the citadel paint app, it's a really, really useful tool for designing color schemes or learning what paints to use to create a given effect. Not that's the citadel paint app, not the warhammer app, the warhammer app is garbage (if you want a list building tool, get battlescribe). There's also an app called impcat, which I've heard rave reviews for, but I don't use it so can't confirm it myself.

Already played around with both Citadel Color and Impcat!

Screenshot-20210630-204936-01.jpg


Not necessarily the best (I'm not too good at this...) but that's what I'll try to work off of.

Otherwise, what I said here might be helpful.

Thanks, long post, will read later.

Oh, that poor soul.

😂
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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Yep, I want my Tau green, with at least some parts in "drab" variety. Going to try for a gritty realistic military look (and will probably fail miserably).



Already played around with both Citadel Color and Impcat!

Screenshot-20210630-204936-01.jpg


Not necessarily the best (I'm not too good at this...) but that's what I'll try to work off of.



Thanks, long post, will read later.



😂
Ah, someone else going for that realistic take!
I am in some aspects but not in others.
I plan to have red and black be the main stay of my guard unit, with a few exceptiom
 

GoldRanger

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Welp, finally stopped dragging my feet and took the plunge. I am now the proud owner of a Tau "Start Collecting!" box and some plastic glue. No colors yet, or any of the other must have stuff (hobby knife, cutters, stuff like that) so I can't yet really do much with it (other than gaze fearfully into its contents and wonder how in the name of the Greater Good am I going to actually assemble all that mess of tiny parts), but the sacrifice to the Gods of the Warp has been made (and by "sacrifice" I really mean "money") so there's no turning back.
 

GoldRanger

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Baby's first miniature.

IMG-20210709-180204.jpg


My Fire Warrior and my friend's Skitarii Ranger. Mine painted with contrast colors + horrendous attempt at layering (seriously guys, first time). My friend painted the Skitarii the regular way (base+shade+dry brushing) and a generous amount of Nuln Oil, but no layering.
 

Battlegrinder

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Don't worry, everyone's first model looks horrible. I think I've posted this shot of one of my first marines before:



For a first attempt, your model looks good, though I'm not sure why the dark green areas look shiny and the more olive areas are grimy, contrast should create a more uniform look.

Also, what's that whitish stuff on top of your base?
 

GoldRanger

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For a first attempt, your model looks good, though I'm not sure why the dark green areas look shiny and the more olive areas are grimy, contrast should create a more uniform look.

I don't mind the "grimy" effect that much because it makes it look more like camo. But the shine on what's supposed to be fabric... I have no idea how it happened or how to get rid of it.

Also, what's that whitish stuff on top of your base?

Oh it's just a thin layer of white-ish base color, prettying up the bases is fairly low on my priority list, but I'll get to it some day.

Either that, or I was a bit too happy at finishing my first model...
 

Battlegrinder

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But the shine on what's supposed to be fabric... I have no idea how it happened or how to get rid of it.

It might be an issue with the contrast being a bit too thin and the underlying primer shifting the colors around.

I would suggest trying a model with a darker primer, or painting a single layer of a regular dark green first and they applying contrast on top.


Oh it's just a thin layer of white-ish base color, prettying up the bases is fairly low on my priority list, but I'll get to it some day.

What are you thinking of doing in terms of bases, depending on what you want to do is could actually be really quick. For example, a simple grass base like this:



That's about a minute's worth of work and a few dollars of materials.


There's also clear bases thst have been getting more popular lately:
a1xuu4jktn401.jpg


I prefer painted bases, but the clear ones are nice in that they'll always match the terrain, while painted ones can have issue where the battlefield is a grassy field and your guys are all one grity lunarscapes with little tiberium crystals mixed in.
 
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Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
Has anyone else noticed how for some reason the Horus Heresy rulebook makers are quite inconsistent in terms of legion fleet sizes as in them making sense when compared across the different legions?

Such as Iron Warriors who were a large well supplied Legion with even ship building capability of their own and many resource worlds, etc... with only like a hundred capital ships and maybe thrice that in escorts. Yet somehow in Thramas Crusade the fucking Night Lords roll around with a fleet twice that size.

And the small White Scars legion with very few planetary domains of their own and no ship building capabilities of their own, had 472 capital ships and 600 escorts in Chondax battle which is quite a lot when the largest fleet, the Imperial Fist fleet, was merely 1.5 times that size.

And Horus' Luna Wolves fleet was stated to be the largest under any Primarch's command and it apparently was 150 capital ships and 450 escorts.
 

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
One thing I've noticed is that the fleet sizes are inflated the later the HH rulebook got released, so I am suspicious that it could be the earlier authors not being consulted by lather authors.
 

Battlegrinder

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Most fictional settings are bad with scale, consistency, and numbers, particularly massive, multi-author settings like warhammer.
 

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
Is there any mentions in novels how long it would take for a full chapter of 1000 Astartes to conquer a planet?

And is there difference in how long it would take a Great Crusade era 1000 Astartes to do such a job vs. a 40k era Chapter?

Horus Heresy Codex Book 1: Betrayal states multiple thousand to be able to conquer a planet in days, so would a single thousand GC era Astartes require most likely like one to two weeks?

And how different would the timetables required be to 40k era Chapter?
 

Battlegrinder

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It depends entirely on the planet, and how you define "conquer". A feudal argi-world might take just a single squad to make a surgical strike on a few targets, take out the kings and the rest of the world might fall in line. Vs something like a hive world, with heavier, dug in defenders....that might be more than a single chapter can manage.
 

Tyzuris

Primarch to your glory& the glory of him on Earth!
It depends entirely on the planet, and how you define "conquer". A feudal argi-world might take just a single squad to make a surgical strike on a few targets, take out the kings and the rest of the world might fall in line. Vs something like a hive world, with heavier, dug in defenders....that might be more than a single chapter can manage.
By conquer I mean making the planetary leadership realize that the fight is lost and surrender.
 

Emperor Tippy

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By conquer I mean making the planetary leadership realize that the fight is lost and surrender.
Anywhere from 1 to a great many more.

A veteran Space Marine Librarian from a Not Stupid chapter could likely conquer most worlds, depending on how long they are willing to invest.

I mean a Raven Guard or Dark Angel remaining in the shadows, building up local partisans, and using things like targeted assassination to prepare the ground could probably replace a Hive Worlds leadership with their own puppets in a few decades to centuries with little risk. Especially if they are a psyker.

A Space Wolf though? Any world with a government where legitimacy is conferred via something besides random acts of face punching is probably beyond them.

Most of the rest fall somewhere in between, with sneakier chapters doing better than the more honor bound idiocy of some others.

Like, the mere fact that a Space Marine is showing up on a world and expressing opinions on the loyalty of the local leadership is probably enough to get any kind of sane local leadership to basically surrender right off the bat. First, who is to say that the Space Marine is truly alone. Second, killing a Space Marine is the kind of thing that gets a major response of the unfriendly kind.

If a Space Marine is killed, you know that one of the local competitors for power is going to find out about it and alert the Inquisition/the Chapter/some other important off world body to the crime and throw all the blame that they can onto their local competitors. Then there is arranging for it to become public and spin it as the local leadership having betrayed the Emperor as they killed one of his loyal sons "they used base treachery to slay one of the Emperors Avenging Angels"; a few fluffed pockets for the local preachers and suddenly you have a new planetary governor riding to power on a mass popular uprising to overthrow the heretical traitor currently sitting on the throne.
 

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