Virus Effects on Economies

Arch Dornan

Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Not likely, number one chinese meat is so toxic this will just hurt their own people, 2 the US is suffering a bit of a shortage so I see a win win opportunity.
Upton Sinclair eat your socialist heart out, his fictional story about US meat is true in red China.
I have to question their decision to do this during such an economic downturn and their own meat industry is already in deep shit from swine flu.
 

Floridaman

Well-known member
I have to question their decision to do this during such an economic downturn and their own meat industry is already in deep shit from swine flu.
It is a bluff, they are hoping Australia will cave quickly, China doesn’t have any other cards to play, they are THE single most trade dependent country on earth, if an investigation reveals they are at fault the world will put up barriers, by striking first they are hoping to get other countries to back down.


“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” Sun Tzu
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag

Can't get payed but you still need to pay rent.

Don't worry, the government has UNLIMITED money and they can tax other people who are still able to work to give those people cash

But why stop there? Give cash even to loads of illegal immigrants and mass-released-ex-criminals, they need it too

Don't be greedy, agree with it, you nazi fascist bigoted monsters

China doesn’t have any other cards to play, they are THE single most trade dependent country on earth

Had you said this a few years ago, I would have laughed, I mean China's where lots of cheap goods are mass produced and sent across the world
 

Culsu

Agent of the Central Plasma
Founder
For a lot of the western European economies the big hits will start coming once fall and winter hit. By that point all the direct emergency aid governments have pushed will have floundered off. Tons of small businesses will have collapsed, especially in high tax countries like Germany, Belgium, France where small business owners have barely a chance to create reserves in the first place. Shops will lay abandoned, leading to those relying on their rent payments loosing tons of purchasing power as well. The millions out of work now in the US will slowly be mirrored by hordes of new jobless working age adults across Europe. And an already highly eroded middle class - itself under siege by the depression - will be expected to pay for all of it. Allthewhile immigrants from even worse hit places and from the usual suspects will push into the region. Ethnic and political clashes are preprogrammed in such an atmosphere, and radicalization will continue to rise. For all the establishment cronies thinking the past five years in Germany were turbulent: boys and girls and gender-diverse suckers, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Man, I wish the 2020ies wouldn't try so damn hard to emulate the 1920ies.
 
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Floridaman

Well-known member
Don't worry, the government has UNLIMITED money and they can tax other people who are still able to work to give those people cash

But why stop there? Give cash even to loads of illegal immigrants and mass-released-ex-criminals, they need it too

Don't be greedy, agree with it, you nazi fascist bigoted monsters



Had you said this a few years ago, I would have laughed, I mean China's where lots of cheap goods are mass produced and sent across the world
That is a weakness, their jobs are dependent on exports, if unemployment happens the party loses its claim to power, remember increasing people’s wealth is how the party gets them to tolerate the authoritarianism.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
That is a weakness, their jobs are dependent on exports, if unemployment happens the party loses its claim to power, remember increasing people’s wealth is how the party gets them to tolerate the authoritarianism.

As horrible as the PRC are, even they don't believe they don't seem to believe they have unlimited money to give to people

For a lot of the western European economies the big hits will start coming once fall and winter hit. By that point all the direct emergency aid governments have pushed will have floundered off. Tons small businesses will have collapsed, especially in high tax countries like Germany, Belgium, France where small business owners have barely a chance to create reserves in the first place. Shops will lay abandoned, leading to those relying on their rent payments loosing tons of purchasing power as well. The millions out of work now in the US will slowly be mirrored by hordes of new jobless working age adults across Europe. And an already highly eroded middle class, itself under siege by the depression - will be expected to pay for all of it. Allthewhile immigrants from even worse hit places and from the usual suspects will push into the region. Ethnic and political clashes are preprogrammed in such an atmosphere, and radicalization will continue to rise. Man, I wish the 2020ies wouldn't try to damn hard to emulate the 1920ies.

And the reason behind all these problems? CAPITALISM & COMPLETELY UNREGULATED-ENOUGH MARKETS!!!

The solution? SOCIALISM!!! OR AT LEAST A HIGHLY CENTRALIZED PLANNED ECONOMY!!!

Thing is, I think too much of your populations are incapable of learning or properly rebelling, if they do "rebel" it will ONLY be against the people they are more-or-less pre-programmed to blame and come up with the same solutions

I don't like being a downer, but Socialism/Communism/State-Capitalism/Statism/Philosopher Kings/Qunari/etc are guys who will never run out of supporters, hell it doesn't even need a prosperous first world country to have lots of crazy hipsters or ANTIFA types

People like Elon Musk, whether you like him or not, are the few who can tell whether or not the boat is sinking and what to do

Others who adapt, by learning via online education will probably be forced into state schools & colleges even more by government order, or forced to pay for more of that because there are things that will refuse to be rendered obsolete and go deadly on everything else

When it comes to defending rights, you guys automatically think it's ONLY applies to those of the top, when it hits those lower than them even more.
 
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Terthna

Professional Lurker
This is what happens when those in charge refuse to recognize the danger until it's almost too late to do anything about it; they overreact to the point where they create entirely new problems that the rest of us have to deal with. Those of us who were trying to warn others about the Corona virus in the early days could have predicted this outcome, and many of us did because we understood that the regressive left is incapable of dealing with any sort of crisis rationally. Make no mistake through, their actions are only in part due to incompetence; the rest is due to the fact that their primary goal is not to save lives, but to increase their own influence and power.

In other words, if they eased the quarantine and let people start going back to work, they would lose this chance to hold the American people hostage in order to tighten their ideological grip on society. Combine that with their inherently cowardly nature, as well as general ignorance about how the real world works, and it's no wonder the regressive left are acting drastically more authoritarian during this crisis.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
In other words, if they eased the quarantine and let people start going back to work, they would lose this chance to hold the American people hostage in order to tighten their ideological grip on society. Combine that with their inherently cowardly nature, as well as general ignorance about how the real world works, and it's no wonder the regressive left are acting drastically more authoritarian during this crisis.

I think they're gonna be depending on their supporters to remain ignorant or intensify any fanaticism and hope they snitch on as many people as possible or try shaming or gaslighting them into compliance

Or at the very least be seen doing so

Things like the Streissand Effect only work so well, if there are people conducive to repeating the banned message and being interested in hearing it

If they get really desperate, they can blame the lockdown-intensification-efforts on Trump

Also, needing for some laws to be made that even after the lockdown will NOT be repealed
 

40thousandninjas

Active member
It is a bluff, they are hoping Australia will cave quickly, China doesn’t have any other cards to play, they are THE single most trade dependent country on earth, if an investigation reveals they are at fault the world will put up barriers, by striking first they are hoping to get other countries to back down.


“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” Sun Tzu

Err... China's trade as a percentage of GDP is 38.25%, higher than the US by a good bit but definitely not the world's most trade dependent nation.

If I had to guess...that's probably Luxembourg with trade as a percentage of GDP at around 400%.

For a lot of the western European economies the big hits will start coming once fall and winter hit. By that point all the direct emergency aid governments have pushed will have floundered off. Tons of small businesses will have collapsed, especially in high tax countries like Germany, Belgium, France where small business owners have barely a chance to create reserves in the first place. Shops will lay abandoned, leading to those relying on their rent payments loosing tons of purchasing power as well. The millions out of work now in the US will slowly be mirrored by hordes of new jobless working age adults across Europe. And an already highly eroded middle class - itself under siege by the depression - will be expected to pay for all of it. Allthewhile immigrants from even worse hit places and from the usual suspects will push into the region. Ethnic and political clashes are preprogrammed in such an atmosphere, and radicalization will continue to rise. For all the establishment cronies thinking the past five years in Germany were turbulent: boys and girls and gender-diverse suckers, you ain't seen nothin' yet!

Man, I wish the 2020ies wouldn't try so damn hard to emulate the 1920ies.

Europe's deal is the shift the burden off the individual onto large organizations such as the government, banks, companies etc.. forcing them to redirect resources to protect their constituents, clients and employees.

What happens then when these entities fail? Disaster. Greece a decade ago almost went bankrupt and was rescued with hundreds of billions of outside assistance.

The European economy was not before the crisis healthy. Debt to GDP didn't budge and politicians didn't use the time they had to reform unsustainable models. Banks were particularly unhealthy and strained by a number of different forces including negative interest rates, low levels of technical sophistication and the inability to expand beyond their home borders in a true sense, pushed to record low profitability and general malaise. Companies too are constrained by a myriad of onerous regulations that increase operational difficulty.

Germany is trade dependent but they have had years of long growth and their coffers are full.

Italy on the other hand is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Italy has to gamble right now in that there won't be a second wave (there will be) and is trying to reopen their economy, but it's difficult to imagine them growing out of this. Italy hasn't had real GDP growth in 20 years before the crisis.

Even in the absolute best case scenario with everyone onboard to rescue Italy, it still wouldn't be enough to fix the problem, their economy is too big, ten times the size of Greece. Now though, everyone is in full selfish mode and is interested in fixing their own problems and not anyone else.
 

Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
Honestly given the economic reality I don't think most nations will shut down again after they reopen even if the second wave of COVID-19 is as bad the first, since the great depression 2.0 which would result from a second round of shut downs is almost certainly going to hurt far more economically(plus the damage to politcal stability) than a very small percentage of the population dying as unfortunate as that may be
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Honestly given the economic reality I don't think most nations will shut down again after they reopen even if the second wave of COVID-19 is as bad the first, since the great depression 2.0 which would result is almost certainly going to hurt far more economically(plus the damage to politcal stability) than a very small percentage of the population dying as unfortunate as that may be

If nations do reopen though, how many restrictions will there be for businesses and everyday life, to even function?

I can see authorities being really biased against smaller companies and businesses or having inspectors essentially trying to close em down ASAP if they can't target the larger ones, the latter they will say to have the facilities and all the requirements in order to be safe and virus free
 

Culsu

Agent of the Central Plasma
Founder
I would dispute that Germany's coffers are full. Yes, we have had good years of economic growth, but those years of full tax income streams were matched by an equally unprecedented spending spree and coincided with the refugee crisis. You'll find that the German state has not created any bad weather reserves, and that the average German household's bottom line after taxes and necessary consumer spending is not significantly better than it was ten years ago. It's certainly nowhere near where one would expect it to be given the macro-economic growth of the past years, and what gains have been made have largely been eaten up by the rise in household energy costs (thanks, Merkel) and the rise in prices of basic staples like milk etc. By now, Germany's overall tax burden is probably the highest in the developed world (Belgium was ahead of us, but I think we overtook them during the past 12 months), which is why the developing crisis will have such a severe impact, in my opinion: there's simply not much room left to ride out the storm with higher taxes.

Not that the government or the usual suspects will bother to see it that way. But then these groups tend to be increasingly staffed with people who think energy comes out of a wall socket and money out of an ATM, and that you can just tax people indefinately if it's just for the right cause (tm) *glares at all the shit the green "industrial" complex and its cronies are throwing against the wall to see what sticks*...
 

40thousandninjas

Active member

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