What If? US moved in time, how does the world left behind react?

[The Unicorn]

THere are hundreds of what-if threads, and quite a few stories about some region going back in time or witching with some other place and how the people transported react, but what about everyone left behind?

So for example what if lower 48 US is replaced (leaving behind Hawaii, Alaska and all the over seas military and territories) with it's equivalent from 1800? How does everyone left behind react? Will the remaining US military try and keep the rest of the world from claiming the resources of a nearly virgin US?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Illegal aliens take over in the first 6 months.

 

[Agent23]

Illegal aliens take over in the first 6 months.

Um, only if they want to live in a 1800s society with the infrastructure and medical and social services of 1800.
TBH somebody from Mexico would rather stay in Mexico in that case.

 

[Buba]

If the current Lower 48 USA is replaced by its 1800 self then it is such a global economic disaster that reactions to it can be described as running around screaming "The sky is falling! the sky is falling!".

Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico are incapable of paying for the military stationed there and outside the USA. Besides not being able to pay for the surviving USN, keeping it running would be quite a bother, with lack of facilities, lack of manufacturers of parts, etc.
In many cases workarounds would be possible, but these need time and MONEY.

As to chasing off illegal aliens - those immigrants are going to an almost medieval shithole because? Jobs? There are none. Homesteading, with an outhouse, no running water, no electricity - how cool!

 

[Agent23]

If the current USA is replaced by its 1800 self then it is such a global economic disaster that reactions to it can be described as running around screaming "The sky is falling! the sky is falling!".

Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico are incapable of paying for the military stationed there and outside the USA. Besides not being able to pay for the surviving USN, keeping it running would be quite a bother, with lack of facilities, lack of manufacturers of parts, etc.
In many cases workarounds would be possible, but these need time and MONEY.

As to chasing off illegal aliens - those immigrants are going to an almost medieval shithole because? Jobs? There are none. Homesteading, with an outhouse, no running water, no electricity - cool!

Yup, your average joe-schmoe in your average country lives better than J. D. Rockafeller and all medieval and renaissance monarchs thanks to all the tech and improved healthcare and infrastructure that is common nowadays.

 

[The Unicorn]

Illegal aliens take over in the first 6 months.

Not likely. Someone would definitely take over, but I doubt it would be from Mexico.
China, Russia and Canada would be my primary candidates but it really depends on how the remains of the US military reacted.

If the current Lower 48 USA is replaced by its 1800 self then it is such a global economic disaster that reactions to it can be described as running around screaming "The sky is falling! the sky is falling!".

True, but I was wondering about the details.

Hawaii, Alaska and Puerto Rico are incapable of paying for the military stationed there and outside the USA. Besides not being able to pay for the surviving USN, keeping it running would be quite a bother, with lack of facilities, lack of manufacturers of parts, etc.
In many cases workarounds would be possible, but these need time and MONEY.

Money is easy. First you have all the assets of US citizens outside the US where the owner was in the US ate the time, second you have selling access to the resources in the US third is selling off some of the very expensive hardware they have, fourth is joining one of the nations that would be very interested in either the natural resources or access to US military troops and hardware.

The issue is, how would they organize to maintain this? What sort of society would they create?

 

[Wilykit]

The world economy is going to collapse hard. The only place left in good shape will be 1800 USA

 

[Buba]

Thinking of it, in 2022 I'd expect the powers that be to agree to the rump USA taking over the 1800 USA. Running roughshod over the slavering - in the south and middle, and lynching - in the north, 1800 USA. And all the stone age steal anything not nailed down and slave taking darlings between the Mississippi and the Pacific. Why?
IMO this is the least bad, the least contentious solution. Without the surviving powers at their throats over what to do with it? And all those USN boomers somewhere out there also are a consideration, I'd venture
Also, as stated ad nauseam already - the world is in such economic shambles that the issue of free clay becomes secondary if not tertiary.

 

[ATP]

All of that.
China could not take Taiwan,becouse Japan and USA fleet is still there.
Moscov,on the other hand,could take Ukraine.And be busy with genociding its inhabitants for next 20 years.
USA army with H bombs would relocate to Poland,and we would have 2 UE - one ruled by England and Poland,second still by germans and leftists.

 

[Buba]

With USD now being coloured paper and CONUS as a market gone - how do you think Mexican cartels will fare? Same question applies to other criminal organisations built around supplying the USA with illicit stuff?

 

[The Unicorn]

With USD now being coloured paper and CONUS as a market gone - how do you think Mexican cartels will fare? Same question applies to other criminal organisations built around supplying the USA with illicit stuff?

Why do you think USD are worthless? Fiat currency is worth what people are willing to pay for it, it could become worthless, or gain in value or anywhere in between.
Personally I don't think it will become worthless unless there's a a complete collapse of society...which is possible with the US gone but not very likely.

 

[Buba]

Why do you think USD are worthless?

Because the US economy is gone. Because any foreign held debt of the Federal Gov't and US companies will never be repaid.
Of course, my expectations may be wrong

 

[The Unicorn]

Because the US economy is gone. Because any foreign held debt of the Federal Gov't and US companies will never be repaid.
Of course, my expectations may be wrong

The thing is, very little of the trade in dollars has anything to do with that. For most people the dollar is useful because everyone uses it, which is a self-perpetuating process that has nothing to do with the existance or lack thereof of the US economy. Between that and the considerable real and electronic assets outside the US that would still be backing the USD I'd expect it to stick around, especially as the world-wide disruption would mean that all types of money would be in serious flux for at least a few years.

 

[Agent23]

The thing is, very little of the trade in dollars has anything to do with that. For most people the dollar is useful because everyone uses it, which is a self-perpetuating process that has nothing to do with the existance or lack thereof of the US economy. Between that and the considerable real and electronic assets outside the US that would still be backing the USD I'd expect it to stick around, especially as the world-wide disruption would mean that all types of money would be in serious flux for at least a few years.

The US dollar is valuable because it is backed by the USA's economy and military.
Granted, you can probably use the 1800s USA's commodities and the Uptime world's US corpo branches outside of it proper, as well as the leftover military, but the value will have to drop at least 20x IMO.
We also get a global recession since the world's major importer is gone, and we probably see sealanes becoming a lot less secure.
China might use its dollars to buy up the place, or demand land and resources for its US treasuries.

 

[Buba]

What happens to Coca-Cola's Secret Recipe? Is it ... gone ... ?

 

[The Unicorn]

The US dollar is valuable because it is backed by the USA's economy and military.

Nope. It's valuable because people believe it's valuable.

Now the US economy and military are part of why people believe it is valuable, but only part and not actually a very large part.

but the value will have to drop at least 20x IMO.

relative to what? Relative to the value of a bottle of California wine? More like x1000. Relative to the value of a ticket to a play? the USD value will probably be significantly greater. Relative to the Frank, Yen, Mark etc? it will probably be all over the place varying hugely from one location to another and hour to hour because of all the fluctuations

We also get a global recession since the world's major importer is gone, and we probably see sealanes becoming a lot less secure.

That's just scratching the surface.

China might use its dollars to buy up the place, or demand land and resources for its US treasuries.

Only if it was preparing to fight a war against the US and its allies and wanted an excuse, which it might very well decide to do.

What happens to Coca-Cola's Secrete Recipe? Is it ... gone ... ?

Quite sure many locations outside the US have it.

 

[ATP]

What become with indians here? USA could not just take their lands and remove them to reservations.And they could not remain independent,too.
Well,maybe commanches could - they had kind of proto-state.

 

[Agent23]

What become with indians here? USA could not just take their lands and remove them to reservations.And they could not remain independent,too.
Well,maybe commanches could - they had kind of proto-state.

Huge can of worms.

Some can probably be paid off, but if the more competent ones see what happened later on in history, well, it will be ugly.
In theory the uptime US military can probably aid them, and NATO could be invoked on the basis of a very stretched out article 5, Russia and China then arm Indian and probably Mexican insurgents with the usual La Raza Mexican types pushing for parts of the USA to be restored to them.
Does this include the continuous mainland USA only, or are terrorizes like Alaska, Hawaii and Puerto Rico also ISOTed?

Because Russian America is a thing, and the Russians would have physical control of downtime Alaska at the particular moment in history, and they will probably pour in troops and put in nukes in place to keep the Remnant US military and the Substitute Drama Teacher from getting any ideas.

Hawaii gets snapped up by either the Japanese or the Chinese.

Sadly fort Ross was established only 3-4 years after the ISOT, so no Russian California.
Spain though, will probably love all that Oil, gold and silver and farmland if Mexico doesn't try and snap it up first.

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

One thing's for sure, until the next world power emerges, the seas will be a lot more unsafe and the european nations will get bullied by anyone with a mediocrum of power projection.

 

[Buba]

Does this include the continuous mainland USA only

OP says "continental", hence I assumed that Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico and the Pacific Terrtories remain. Plus US military overseas and - more importantly - the USN at sea or in RumpUSA or overseas bases.
Having all those boomers around simplifies things

No "Scramble for Free Clay" ensues, unlike for Africa in 1890 ...