Universal Basic Income

So if this is applicable to human societies and not just to mice (which is highly, highly suspect due to the fact that mice are creatures that lack higher brain functions and humans... well, aren't), how exactly do you plan to prevent the eventual extinction of humanity? Because bearing in mind the propensity for advancing technology to create material abundance, the fact that human nature drives people to seek a better life for themselves and their children (as seen in East Germany which despite having a communist culture still had people trying to flee over the Berlin wall to West Germany), and natural human aggression that leads to societies attempting to exploit other societies that limit themselves or otherwise are reduced in some capacity (see colonialism and slavery). How exactly do you plan on creating a stable society that both will not fail due to material abundance and not be conquered militarily, culturally, or economically by those that will?

Outside of the more basic “need” and idea of “ambition”, I’m pretty sure that there would be people in a Post-Scarcity Society obsessing over different things, even when they don’t exactly even have the money to survive and prosper

Like obsessing over social media and hoping to get lots of likes and subscriptions like the many hipsters on Tumblr who’s large number of likes are the reason why companies try pandering to them even if they don’t buy games and comics much

Also, again sorta in-relation to this sort of narcissism, there are people who like making fiction or art of their own in exchange for praise. Just look at Fanfiction.net, reviewers basically give plenty of terrible authors handjobs for their In-Name-Only Overpowered Edgelord Douchebag MC’s and then proceed to make a lot of them because they like accumulating this praise to stroke their ego’s

On a less disgusting note, there ARE people who do jobs and certain crafts or hobbies just because they like them or want to “GIT GUD!” or because they want to show to themselves and/or others “I DID IT! THIS IS WHAT I DID! AND IT’S AMAZING!!!” like mastering martial arts or joining the military just to show they’re Badass even when there’s no war going on

This can even be applied to learning economics, chemistry and combat

Isaac Arthur covers this stuff regarding Post-Scarcity Civilizations. And just because there maybe no NEED or hardness to making children, doesn’t mean there maybe times when families choose to have multiple

I await the fay that hunting lions with nerf bats becomes a sport

Plus, civilizations can become decadent and complacent and unwilling to improve even when there’s a sizable amount of poverty, crime and potential danger in and near their borders. With increasingly advanced technologies at the very least people have a better chance of surviving
 
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So if this is applicable to human societies and not just to mice (which is highly, highly suspect due to the fact that mice are creatures that lack higher brain functions and humans... well, aren't), how exactly do you plan to prevent the eventual extinction of humanity? Because bearing in mind the propensity for advancing technology to create material abundance, the fact that human nature drives people to seek a better life for themselves and their children (as seen in East Germany which despite having a communist culture still had people trying to flee over the Berlin wall to West Germany), and natural human aggression that leads to societies attempting to exploit other societies that limit themselves or otherwise are reduced in some capacity (see colonialism and slavery). How exactly do you plan on creating a stable society that both will not fail due to material abundance and not be conquered militarily, culturally, or economically by those that will?

Well, Detroit is not exactly going to out compete, well, anyone in its current situation. Same with a New York that didn't suspend the trend lines and was now suffering Big Mexican city murder rates killing some 5,000 people a year by itself (about 10x as many murders for the city itself as are currently killed in the entire state: at 70 trend line murder rates of about 100 per 100,000, you would expect about 300,000 murders in the US per year if it applied to everyone).

A mouse Utopia like collapse is the weakness which leads you to be conquered, not the strength that allows you to conquer. Slums and social decadence are a weakness which hold back a country, not strengthen it.

Abundance is not really the main issue I think highlighted by the Mouse Utopia (though the mouse Utopia is of course open to interpretation). I think the bigger take away is that too dense living often, or at least can, triggers self destructive behavior: mouse utopia just shows that such a situation can produce such pathological and destructive behavior that they can even lead to the complete extinction of the colony, despite absolutely no outside pressure.

The "abundance" of the Mouse utopia I think more of an enabler of the pathology and self destructive activity rather, than a cause. For a real world example, Venezuela I think was able to become so much worse than many other "socialist" countries because the oil money provided a cushonary abundance: It sufficiently delayed the Venezuelan's from having to actually deal with the reality of what their policies and behavior was doing so that when things caught up with them, it was far too late to do any sort of easy fix: things had degraded too far for easy fixes.

I wonder if there is something like that going on in Silicon Valley, and specifically those famously gay/decadent areas of San Francisco: A gay guy who left that area looking back on the culture of it found it utterly disgusting and the culture immensely broken and self destructive. And separate from any criticism of gay/San Francisco in general culture, a large portion of your population being gay would by simple logistics pose a problem sustaining your population. But, since Silicon Valley is sucking in seemingly infinite wealth from the rest of the world, and places like San Francisco can suck up the gays of the Entire US for replenishment rather than relying on "local" sources or replacement, the general degeneracy of the West Coast which so often freaks everyone else out is much more sustainable there than elsewhere, which lets it develop to a far higher degree there than other places.

But, the problem isn't wealth itself, but "decadence" as trad-cons would say. I believe the ditributist said it something like this: "A puritan was likely much richer than a Roman, but the Puritan was much less decadent". Queen Victoria in London was probably vastly wealthier than the Ottoman Emperor in Constantinople, but the Ottoman court was much more decadent.

In summary, the Mouse Utopia mostly serves as a warning that certain living arrangements can cause such social damage that no amount of material wealth can counteract it, potentially leading to total doom. Its thus something to be aware of, and suggests additional concerns when doing urban planning. For example, living in a crowded archalology as Zor and others championed may be more destructive for human thriving and a functional human society as to more than negate, I don't know, slightly lower transport costs or less land use.

It also warns against the ways such dysfunction manifests and how dangerous to overall societal health some behaviors may be. For example, the potential that mouse Utopia shows that Gays may really be a sign of social degradation and eventual collapse: an actual harm on society, or at least a symption of a sick one, rather than a totally benign life choice.

Which of course bring you to the second solution to mouse utopia, and by far the more controversial one: moral discipline. So, for example, if children growing up in dense urban areas encourages the creation of "juvenile delinquents" as Calhoun called some of the mice in the experiments, while more ideally you change the environment in some way to make the environment less supportive of troubled youth, the other option is to simply crack down on it. In reality we do both.

Take for example New York in the 1970s: lets say that was "peak mouse Utopia" and a fair amount of the problems really were overcrowding related. Just for the sake of this excersize: the solution to this problem was two fold: first, a lot of people moved out of the city itself into the much less dense suburbs, which generally seem to be healthier places to raise families than inner cities. Two, the police force was dramatically expanded, upgraded, and began cracking down on every violation (the broken window policy) hard. So, if a city is harmful to natural social harmony and order, but they're too valuable as concentrations to let people spread out more, you can just invest into more official, formal authority to crack down forcibly on disorder before it can spiral out of control.

So, while a more rural/suburban area can get away with the police being a sheriff and a couple of deputies, an urban area may need much more forceful, aggressive law enforcement in order to maintain an acceptable amount of order.

So, those are the two solutions to Mouse Utopia problems

1) Better urban planning, which generally means something like "less dense"
2) Harsher and harder enforcement of moral discipline to counteract any "disgenic" (not the right word, but I can't think of a better one) element of city living, if city living does on its own tend to produce less functional and more self destructive people.
 
It also doesn't help that the technological context we're living in is essentially making it a matter of when than a matter of if.

Then again, for most of human history, the technological context forced mankind to engage in slavery and serfdom because the technological context made it impossible to keep society running without masses of people in the fields (i.e. up to 'practically all the people' levels or within the 90% ballpark), especially in areas where even subsistence farming is really, really, really hard.

Given that cities have almost always been historically the centers of economic production and the fact that people flock to places where they can improve their economic situation, slavery and serfdom became commonplace to compensate for manpower shortfalls.

@JagerIV, that is pretty laughable with our ever-evolving technological context...
 
I could see the need for implementing UBI in 20-30 years, where automation would simply cut out 70%-ish of the job market. But right now? No. If the argument that it would make it easier for the individual to spent, why not just cut taxes? Rather than the 2-step method of paying taxes simply for the cash to be returned to you, just cut the middleman and cut taxes instead.
 
It also doesn't help that the technological context we're living in is essentially making it a matter of when than a matter of if.

Then again, for most of human history, the technological context forced mankind to engage in slavery and serfdom because the technological context made it impossible to keep society running without masses of people in the fields (i.e. up to 'practically all the people' levels or within the 90% ballpark), especially in areas where even subsistence farming is really, really, really hard.

Given that cities have almost always been historically the centers of economic production and the fact that people flock to places where they can improve their economic situation, slavery and serfdom became commonplace to compensate for manpower shortfalls.

@JagerIV, that is pretty laughable with our ever-evolving technological context...

Are you discussing transhumanism tech? Which particular part is laughable?
 
Are you discussing transhumanism tech? Which particular part is laughable?
No, tech in general. Computers and software are improving to the point that human middleman is no longer needed for one. Given that Moore's Law is a thing, automation is simply going to improve to the point where humans may not apply within a few decades at best.

Then there is the fact that we're also living in a world where there are still too many idiots with more ideology than sense running around...
I could see the need for implementing UBI in 20-30 years, where automation would simply cut out 70%-ish of the job market. But right now? No. If the argument that it would make it easier for the individual to spent, why not just cut taxes? Rather than the 2-step method of paying taxes simply for the cash to be returned to you, just cut the middleman and cut taxes instead.
We need the foundation up and ready now before it is actually needed... and given the situation the need will happen sooner than we would believe.
 
So if this is applicable to human societies and not just to mice (which is highly, highly suspect due to the fact that mice are creatures that lack higher brain functions and humans... well, aren't), how exactly do you plan to prevent the eventual extinction of humanity? Because bearing in mind the propensity for advancing technology to create material abundance, the fact that human nature drives people to seek a better life for themselves and their children (as seen in East Germany which despite having a communist culture still had people trying to flee over the Berlin wall to West Germany), and natural human aggression that leads to societies attempting to exploit other societies that limit themselves or otherwise are reduced in some capacity (see colonialism and slavery). How exactly do you plan on creating a stable society that both will not fail due to material abundance and not be conquered militarily, culturally, or economically by those that will?

Because spiritual abundance will allow us to continue to develop technology within the right framework without falling prey to the automation impulse; it will let us keep the population spread out across rural areas where behaviours and mindsets are healthy and in tune with the land, and it will place the economy into a moral framework. Expansion into space would ultimately be necessary to keep population density down.

Of course, the pessimist, looking at the end of the Kali Yuga, will say that the cities will become pits of destruction and despair, the people in them will die out, and we will destroy everything outside the rural dwellers with our automation and our dehumanisation and deracination of society itself, and the rural dwellers will go on to build the new golden age (unlike the mice, who had no rural population). I pray for the former and expect the latter.
 
@Punch Card Girl, that won't happen. If the cities fall, everyone else falls. Period. Every major societal collapse has the point where the cities collapse be when the point where civilizations collapse.

So, if that happens, say goodbye civilization and an iron-age level of existence because the cities took everything above that with them.

I'm all for decentralizing economic and political power on the voting level, but there are just things that you can't do like literally reverse the clock.
 
@Punch Card Girl, that won't happen. If the cities fall, everyone else falls. Period. Every major societal collapse has the point where the cities collapse be when the point where civilizations collapse.

So, if that happens, say goodbye civilization and an iron-age level of existence because the cities took everything above that with them.

I'm all for decentralizing economic and political power on the voting level, but there are just things that you can't do like literally reverse the clock.

Actually, each so-called "Dark Age" has frequently corresponded to a retention of considerable technology and knowledge and to some actual, specific enhancements. Considerable improvements in iron working over Roman times and in the pumping of water actually occurred during the so-called "Dark Ages" in Europe, despite massive deurbanisation. Yes, it would, however, indeed be a Dark Age; it would be a civilisational collapse. And then a new Golden Age would arise. As has always been the case and always will, with the Dark Ages being just minor epicycles within the Kali Yuga. So, from my perspective, while I pray we are not yet at the end of the Kali Yuga, and if the end comes, few of us will survive, it is also simply fated to be. So I pray that this is just the end of a particularly bad sub-cycle, even as I fear that our modern civilisation represents the End of this Age. And if it is the end, then, of course we will lose most modern technology; that is inevitable. But we will regain our spiritual racination and we will lose less of it than you think, because it's clear you don't have an accurate understanding of past cases of so-called "dark ages" and de-urbanisation.
 
Actually, each so-called "Dark Age" has frequently corresponded to a retention of considerable technology and knowledge and to some actual, specific enhancements. Considerable improvements in iron working over Roman times and in the pumping of water actually occurred during the so-called "Dark Ages" in Europe, despite massive deurbanisation. Yes, it would, however, indeed be a Dark Age; it would be a civilisational collapse. And then a new Golden Age would arise. As has always been the case and always will, with the Dark Ages being just minor epicycles within the Kali Yuga. So, from my perspective, while I pray we are not yet at the end of the Kali Yuga, and if the end comes, few of us will survive, it is also simply fated to be. So I pray that this is just the end of a particularly bad sub-cycle, even as I fear that our modern civilisation represents the End of this Age. And if it is the end, then, of course we will lose most modern technology; that is inevitable. But we will regain our spiritual racination and we will lose less of it than you think, because it's clear you don't have an accurate understanding of past cases of so-called "dark ages" and de-urbanisation.
No, outside of Egypt, China, and Assyria, civilizations during the Bronze Age Collapse was near-total wipeouts where a lot of things literally vanished of the face of the earth with only a few pockets of remnants being around.

The events that led to the Dark Ages was a governmental collapse, not a societal/civilization one (i.e. civilization/society is still around, but the government and it's institutions has completely vanished). Far different than what you are speaking of.
 
No, outside of Egypt, China, and Assyria, civilizations during the Bronze Age Collapse was near-total wipeouts where a lot of things literally vanished of the face of the earth with only a few pockets of remnants being around.

Well, except for the mass dissemination of iron and the invention of currency.

The events that led to the Dark Ages was a governmental collapse, not a societal/civilization one (i.e. civilization/society is still around, but the government and it's institutions has completely vanished). Far different than what you are speaking of.

Please research the statistics of de-urbanisation during both western Dark Ages, because that is not the case at all.
 
Because spiritual abundance will allow us to continue to develop technology within the right framework without falling prey to the automation impulse; it will let us keep the population spread out across rural areas where behaviours and mindsets are healthy and in tune with the land, and it will place the economy into a moral framework. Expansion into space would ultimately be necessary to keep population density down.

Of course, the pessimist, looking at the end of the Kali Yuga, will say that the cities will become pits of destruction and despair, the people in them will die out, and we will destroy everything outside the rural dwellers with our automation and our dehumanisation and deracination of society itself, and the rural dwellers will go on to build the new golden age (unlike the mice, who had no rural population). I pray for the former and expect the latter.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. The population density of cities have far too many benefits in terms of efficiency due to the tyranny of distance radically increasing the costs of infrastructure to the point that many countries literally wouldn't be able to afford the transition, rural living is less environmentally friendly than urbanization per unit of population, materialism has been gaining ground in cultures worldwide for centuries by this point and methodological naturalism is a prerequisite to performing science and developing new technologies. Dune's Butlerian Jihad would never have been able to happen in the real world due to the efficiency of automated weapons systems compounded by automated manufacturing.
 
Yeah, that's not going to happen. The population density of cities have far too many benefits in terms of efficiency due to the tyranny of distance radically increasing the costs of infrastructure to the point that many countries literally wouldn't be able to afford the transition, rural living is less environmentally friendly than urbanization per unit of population, materialism has been gaining ground in cultures worldwide for centuries by this point and methodological naturalism is a prerequisite to performing science and developing new technologies. Dune's Butlerian Jihad would never have been able to happen in the real world due to the efficiency of automated weapons systems compounded by automated manufacturing.


And yet for all of those claims disorganised forces with barely more than medieval bases of support have manufactured heavy weapons, refined oil, and successfully conducted war against more heavily organised forces centred on urban areas again and again. almost predominant in the recent past in fact.

Urban areas do indeed obey the Law of Cities as I have taken to call it... But then they burn themselves out and collapse. Again, and again, and again. Teotihuacan, the Mayan, the Bronze Age eastern Mediterranean, Tartessos, Rome, there was massive deurbanisation after the Han dynasty as well. Oh, the arrogance of the modern. “This time it will be different”.
 
And yet for all of those claims disorganised forces with barely more than medieval bases of support have manufactured heavy weapons, refined oil, and successfully conducted war against more heavily organised forces centred on urban areas again and again. almost predominant in the recent past in fact.

Urban areas do indeed obey the Law of Cities as I have taken to call it... But then they burn themselves out and collapse. Again, and again, and again. Teotihuacan, the Mayan, the Bronze Age eastern Mediterranean, Tartessos, Rome, there was massive deurbanisation after the Han dynasty as well. Oh, the arrogance of the modern. “This time it will be different”.
Urban areas have collapsed throughout history because that's simply the nature of things; all things man creates collapses because the nature of entropy is such that reality as a whole is trending toward collapse. Hell, rural America is currently in the midst of a collapse, so it's hardly a trend that's exclusive to urban areas. It's hardly a condemnation of urbanization that practically all civilizations and empires throughout history had cities as their heart. If anything, it's indicative of their efficacy.
Well, Detroit is not exactly going to out compete, well, anyone in its current situation. Same with a New York that didn't suspend the trend lines and was now suffering Big Mexican city murder rates killing some 5,000 people a year by itself (about 10x as many murders for the city itself as are currently killed in the entire state: at 70 trend line murder rates of about 100 per 100,000, you would expect about 300,000 murders in the US per year if it applied to everyone).

A mouse Utopia like collapse is the weakness which leads you to be conquered, not the strength that allows you to conquer. Slums and social decadence are a weakness which hold back a country, not strengthen it.

Abundance is not really the main issue I think highlighted by the Mouse Utopia (though the mouse Utopia is of course open to interpretation). I think the bigger take away is that too dense living often, or at least can, triggers self destructive behavior: mouse utopia just shows that such a situation can produce such pathological and destructive behavior that they can even lead to the complete extinction of the colony, despite absolutely no outside pressure.

The "abundance" of the Mouse utopia I think more of an enabler of the pathology and self destructive activity rather, than a cause. For a real world example, Venezuela I think was able to become so much worse than many other "socialist" countries because the oil money provided a cushonary abundance: It sufficiently delayed the Venezuelan's from having to actually deal with the reality of what their policies and behavior was doing so that when things caught up with them, it was far too late to do any sort of easy fix: things had degraded too far for easy fixes.

I wonder if there is something like that going on in Silicon Valley, and specifically those famously gay/decadent areas of San Francisco: A gay guy who left that area looking back on the culture of it found it utterly disgusting and the culture immensely broken and self destructive. And separate from any criticism of gay/San Francisco in general culture, a large portion of your population being gay would by simple logistics pose a problem sustaining your population. But, since Silicon Valley is sucking in seemingly infinite wealth from the rest of the world, and places like San Francisco can suck up the gays of the Entire US for replenishment rather than relying on "local" sources or replacement, the general degeneracy of the West Coast which so often freaks everyone else out is much more sustainable there than elsewhere, which lets it develop to a far higher degree there than other places.

But, the problem isn't wealth itself, but "decadence" as trad-cons would say. I believe the ditributist said it something like this: "A puritan was likely much richer than a Roman, but the Puritan was much less decadent". Queen Victoria in London was probably vastly wealthier than the Ottoman Emperor in Constantinople, but the Ottoman court was much more decadent.

In summary, the Mouse Utopia mostly serves as a warning that certain living arrangements can cause such social damage that no amount of material wealth can counteract it, potentially leading to total doom. Its thus something to be aware of, and suggests additional concerns when doing urban planning. For example, living in a crowded archalology as Zor and others championed may be more destructive for human thriving and a functional human society as to more than negate, I don't know, slightly lower transport costs or less land use.

It also warns against the ways such dysfunction manifests and how dangerous to overall societal health some behaviors may be. For example, the potential that mouse Utopia shows that Gays may really be a sign of social degradation and eventual collapse: an actual harm on society, or at least a symption of a sick one, rather than a totally benign life choice.

Which of course bring you to the second solution to mouse utopia, and by far the more controversial one: moral discipline. So, for example, if children growing up in dense urban areas encourages the creation of "juvenile delinquents" as Calhoun called some of the mice in the experiments, while more ideally you change the environment in some way to make the environment less supportive of troubled youth, the other option is to simply crack down on it. In reality we do both.

Take for example New York in the 1970s: lets say that was "peak mouse Utopia" and a fair amount of the problems really were overcrowding related. Just for the sake of this excersize: the solution to this problem was two fold: first, a lot of people moved out of the city itself into the much less dense suburbs, which generally seem to be healthier places to raise families than inner cities. Two, the police force was dramatically expanded, upgraded, and began cracking down on every violation (the broken window policy) hard. So, if a city is harmful to natural social harmony and order, but they're too valuable as concentrations to let people spread out more, you can just invest into more official, formal authority to crack down forcibly on disorder before it can spiral out of control.

So, while a more rural/suburban area can get away with the police being a sheriff and a couple of deputies, an urban area may need much more forceful, aggressive law enforcement in order to maintain an acceptable amount of order.

So, those are the two solutions to Mouse Utopia problems

1) Better urban planning, which generally means something like "less dense"
2) Harsher and harder enforcement of moral discipline to counteract any "disgenic" (not the right word, but I can't think of a better one) element of city living, if city living does on its own tend to produce less functional and more self destructive people.
How so? Gays have existed in every culture and every civilization in history. It's less an indication of degeneracy than a sign of "Hey, this society has humans in it" because no matter how intolerant any society has been of homosexuals and no matter how long they've been so they've still needed to punish deviancy because no matter how hard they've cracked down on them there's always more of them. That's why liberals think that homosexuals are a side-effect of biology, rather than a learned behavior; not only have neurological studies seemed to corroborated it, but any and all attempts we've made to actually treat it like you would a mental illness or a behavioral disorder or addiction have completely failed long-term with a near 100% rate of recidivism.

Also, I personally think you're really overthinking the causes of crime in urban areas. It's simply easier and more profitable to be a criminal in urban areas. Not only does the higher levels of population density make it easier for gangs to operate due to needing to defend less territory for the same amount of "protection" money, but they also have a wider variety of targets to choose from and it's easier for them to lose law enforcement by hiding among the masses of people living there.
 
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Yeah, that's not going to happen. The population density of cities have far too many benefits in terms of efficiency due to the tyranny of distance radically increasing the costs of infrastructure to the point that many countries literally wouldn't be able to afford the transition, rural living is less environmentally friendly than urbanization per unit of population, materialism has been gaining ground in cultures worldwide for centuries by this point and methodological naturalism is a prerequisite to performing science and developing new technologies. Dune's Butlerian Jihad would never have been able to happen in the real world due to the efficiency of automated weapons systems compounded by automated manufacturing.

Well, except a fair amount of this isn't actually true: density has immense cost, which is why almost all cities have effectively been getting less dense since the industrial revolution. The places getting more dense are known miserable places to live.

Most of the supposed benefits of urban living in pure cost terms are significantly smaller than people often imagine. And the costs of that density are far higher than most think.

Lets take for example subways. High density likely requires some sort of subway. Subways are extremely expensive: most estimates I see range in cost between $100 million to a $1 billion. Roads are significantly cheaper. You can build nearly a hundred miles of two lane roads for the cost of 1 mile of subway.

The operating costs are also much higher: an all in estimate I've seen is about 30 cents per passenger mile driving, vs about 80 cents per passenger mile in almost any mass transit. And mass transit is also almost always much, much slower than driving to boot. That's a huge, if uncounted, cost which adds up very quickly.

And this is before all the issues of land cost. Most cities are already very unafordable. The amount energy prices have to raise to make up for property value expenses are, well, huge. And if solar keeps advancing, being out has even more value and is even cheaper if it gives you space to do solar power.

Living in suburbs is just immensely cheaper than the city, and rural is even cheaper. There's a reason the world is becoming suburban, not urban.
 
Outside of the more basic “need” and idea of “ambition”, I’m pretty sure that there would be people in a Post-Scarcity Society obsessing over different things, even when they don’t exactly even have the money to survive and prosper

Like obsessing over social media and hoping to get lots of likes and subscriptions like the many hipsters on Tumblr who’s large number of likes are the reason why companies try pandering to them even if they don’t buy games and comics much

Also, again sorta in-relation to this sort of narcissism, there are people who like making fiction or art of their own in exchange for praise. Just look at Fanfiction.net, reviewers basically give plenty of terrible authors handjobs for their In-Name-Only Overpowered Edgelord Douchebag MC’s and then proceed to make a lot of them because they like accumulating this praise to stroke their ego’s

On a less disgusting note, there ARE people who do jobs and certain crafts or hobbies just because they like them or want to “GIT GUD!” or because they want to show to themselves and/or others “I DID IT! THIS IS WHAT I DID! AND IT’S AMAZING!!!” like mastering martial arts or joining the military just to show they’re Badass even when there’s no war going on

This can even be applied to learning economics, chemistry and combat

Isaac Arthur covers this stuff regarding Post-Scarcity Civilizations. And just because there maybe no NEED or hardness to making children, doesn’t mean there maybe times when families choose to have multiple

I await the fay that hunting lions with nerf bats becomes a sport

Plus, civilizations can become decadent and complacent and unwilling to improve even when there’s a sizable amount of poverty, crime and potential danger in and near their borders. With increasingly advanced technologies at the very least people have a better chance of surviving
Does that behaviour also explain why on twitch people give money to women just for anything they could do as part of their life?

Interesting human behavior to see though. I'm not sure if it's disposable income or someone living paycheck to paycheck but it's quite something to see women playing games to talking or doing dances or just playing dress up and people just chuck in money for that. Do get the idea which is thirsty people giving money to women to do uh teases.

Though as I spend money sometimes for gachas I wouldn't be much better except I moderate such expenses and reserve them more for steam/gog purchases.

Then for more acceptable donations for me would be seeing the money given to people in a livestream who just talk and talk over topics people would be interested in. Curiously it can be accused as grifting but if it gives people pleasure to listen to then isn't it busking?
 
I'm not an economist (and that's an admission worthy of emphasis), but if UBI is the only viable path to help supplement "unskilled" workers in blue and white collar fields as we stare in the face of vast and inexorable automation in the USA, then so be it.
 
I'm not an economist (and that's an admission worthy of emphasis), but if UBI is the only viable path to help supplement "unskilled" workers in blue and white collar fields as we stare in the face of vast and inexorable automation in the USA, then so be it.

That automation is only "inevitable" because a progressive, technocratic elite keep telling us that it is over and over again through mass media as they continue to impoverish America's workers.
 
@Punch Card Girl, that won't happen. If the cities fall, everyone else falls. Period. Every major societal collapse has the point where the cities collapse be when the point where civilizations collapse.

So, if that happens, say goodbye civilization and an iron-age level of existence because the cities took everything above that with them.

I'm all for decentralizing economic and political power on the voting level, but there are just things that you can't do like literally reverse the clock.

When you say the cities fall, are you talking about towns with 10,000 people as "cities"?

A huge amount of industry is actually outside the really big ones. The really big, million+ cities only make up about 10% of the population.
 
That automation is only "inevitable" because a progressive, technocratic elite keep telling us that it is over and over again through mass media as they continue to impoverish America's workers.

My disclaimer stands, but my understanding is that automation is generally more efficient, effective, and cost-effective than paying human laborers. If that's true, capitalist profit motive* compels automation inexorably forward. I don't see how you get the genie back in the bottle there without strongly constraining the private sector's opportunity to automate their industries via legal fiat.

Another disclaimer: this isn't some sort of backhanded endorsement of communism.
 

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