Transgender Rights

[Realm]

Reality is that which remains the true when you cease to believe in it. If a transgender person ceases to believe that they are a member of the opposite sex (as it does in a majority of cases), do they remain a member of the opposite sex? Under any standard no. Therefore, according to the definition of reality, they are not really a member of the opposite sex, it is just a delusion.

Thus, I have proven from first principles that transgenderism is a delusion. There is no higher form of evidence than a proof form first principles. The only way to falsify my proof is to provide an alternate definition of reality.

Trans people don't think they're the opposite sex, they identify with a gender other than the one socially related to their birth sex, and often but not always feel psychological distress at their physical body deviating from the socially prescribed normal for that gender, so your explanation fails at the level of base understanding of the topic at hand.

Sounded fancy tho, so that's nice

 

[Deleted member 1]

Trans people don't think they're the opposite sex, they identify with a gender other than the one socially related to their birth sex, and often but not always feel psychological distress at their physical body deviating from the socially prescribed normal for that gender, so your explanation fails at the level of base understanding of the topic at hand.

Sounded fancy tho, so that's nice

That is a statement of transgenderist theory which is false for true transsexuals, who do see themselves as mentally female in a real sense, biologically or otherwise. It’s rather easy to look up and read about the abortive movement to define Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome which was interrupted by the kind of Political Transgenderism that you describe.

 

[Realm]

That is a statement of transgenderist theory which is false for true transsexuals, who do see themselves as mentally female in a real sense, biologically or otherwise. It’s rather easy to look up and read about the abortive movement to define Harry Benjamin’s Syndrome which was interrupted by the kind of Political Transgenderism that you describe.

Well obviously one way for people who don't define gender as a constructed social relationship (physical sex is a social construct as well, fite me) would consider themselves to be in a concrete sense definitively, mentally the opposite sex and modifying their body to rectify the discrepancy.

However, doomsoughts definition is still incoherent, since even going by that medicalist perspective if a trans person "ceases to believe" their trans, there will have been a clear, physical change in the brain of that individual.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Well obviously one way for people who don't define gender as a constructed social relationship (physical sex is a social construct as well, fite me) would consider themselves to be in a concrete sense definitively, mentally the opposite sex and modifying their body to rectify the discrepancy.

However, doomsoughts definition is still incoherent, since even going by that medicalist perspective if a trans person "ceases to believe" their trans, there will have been a clear, physical change in the brain of that individual.

Correct. From my own perspective transsexuals are fated to be that way by Werde, but there is surely a detectable mental component (because the real world manifests through the material world).

Of course, that speaks to the serious issue that there is a large proportion of political transgenderists who constitute an assault on essentialism for political ends with no sincere expression of a profound difference or ineluctable compulsion—and they are being treated the same way.

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

When "transgender activists" pull off entitled shit like this, yeah.

Transwoman against putting up LGBT restrooms - Manila Bulletin

Gretchen Diez the transgender woman whose rights were violated inside a women’s washroom in a mall in Quezon City, strongly objects to the proposal to build a separate comfort room for the LGBT community.

news.mb.com.ph

I mean, despite what this person says (I don't want to cost establishments more), this is still coming across as "BAKE THE CAKE BIGOT, WAX MY BALLS BIGOT, SUCK MY DICK BIGOT, LET ME INTO YOUR BATHROOMS BIGOT".

Also, in a strict term of reference, the product of crossed brain wires can be feasibly categorized as "delusion". It's accurate, but the word itself carries a lot of attendant baggage with it.

No, it's coming across as, "I don't want to have to use the FREAK restroom."

 

[Nitramy]

No, it's coming across as, "I don't want to have to use the FREAK restroom."

Your brain wires were crossed thanks to a freak accident during your parents' pregnancy, how else would you call it? Normal?

 

[Doomsought]

However, doomsoughts definition is still incoherent, since even going by that medicalist perspective if a trans person "ceases to believe" their trans, there will have been a clear, physical change in the brain of that individual.

The human brain is a physical neural network. Any changes to your memories, behaviors and beliefs will have a physical reflection. Its well known that playing video games makes structural changes in the brain. You argument is completely meaningless.

 

[Realm]

The human brain is a physical neural network. Any changes to your memories, behaviors and beliefs will have a physical reflection. Its well known that playing video games makes structural changes in the brain. You argument is completely meaningless.

Your argument is that if they stop, mentally, being trans they are no longer trans and due to the nature of reality anything you can stop "believing in" and itll go away isn't real. By that metric, any mental state, condition or self identification falls under the same categorization and thus your statement is just pretty incoherent and anti-science

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

Your brain wires were crossed thanks to a freak accident during your parents' pregnancy, how else would you call it? Normal?

I guess I just try to be a decent human being. You might try it someday.

 

[Doomsought]

Your argument is that if they stop, mentally, being trans they are no longer trans and due to the nature of reality anything you can stop "believing in" and itll go away isn't real. By that metric, any mental state, condition or self identification falls under the same categorization and thus your statement is just pretty incoherent and anti-science

No, you are just failing to comprehend the separation of container and contents.

That a mental state is real does not require that any perception, impression or sensation produced by the mental state be real. It is real that a person has a hallucination when taking Acid, but the contents of the hallucination is not.

Thus it is real that they have a delusion that they are a member of the opposite sex, but it is not real that they are a member of the opposite sex.

 

[Realm]

No, you are just failing to comprehend the separation of container and contents.

That a mental state is real does not require that any perception, impression or sensation produced by the mental state be real. It is real that a person has a hallucination when taking Acid, but the contents of the hallucination is not.

Thus it is real that they have a delusion that they are a member of the opposite sex, but it is not real that they are a member of the opposite sex.

Dude, we already agree. They aren't a member of the opposite sex. They're of a different gender than that which they were assigned at birth, and often their mental state is improved through medical intervention modifying the body to be closer to that of the socially accepted norm of what that gender is excepted to look like. This is "real" just as the fact someone on acid is hallucinating is "real".

Sex and gender are different

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Dude, we already agree. They aren't a member of the opposite sex. They're of a different gender than that which they were assigned at birth, and often their mental state is improved through medical intervention modifying the body to be closer to that of the socially accepted norm of what that gender is excepted to look like. This is "real" just as the fact someone on acid is hallucinating is "real".

Sex and gender are different

This false idea that word games can justify deception and self-mutilation is an affectation of degenerate societies that have been, in the words of Yuri Bezmenov, 'demoralized'. That is, stripped of the capacity to discern truth from falsehood, no matter how much evidence is presented.

The evidence that males and females are immutably different is overwhelming. It ranges from the immediately obvious, such as physical morphology and genitalia, to the discernable but complex, such as differences in brain architecture and hormone re-uptake rates. Only one sex may sire children, and only one sex may bear children.

The roles that arise from these real, physical differences, cannot be used as a verbal mask for delusion. A deranged female who thinks herself male does not become a father by pretending to be one, no matter what artifice or surgery is employed to aid in the deception. She remains female, neither a man nor a father, and speaks falsely when she claims otherwise.

 

[Realm]

This false idea that word games can justify deception and self-mutilation is an affectation of degenerate societies that have been, in the words of Yuri Bezmenov, 'demoralized'. That is, stripped of the capacity to discern truth from falsehood, no matter how much evidence is presented.

Get back in touch when the psychiatric profession agrees with your righteous spiel instead of directly contradicting it, if you want to be covering over your blatant ideological nonsense with a fig leaf of scientific objectivity.

 

[ShieldWife]

When we all about what the medical or psychiatric fields have to say on the topic, we have to keep in mind that only one position is allowed in those fields and dissenting voices will be silenced.

Any time some opinion some a dogma and dissenters are punished, then any kind of consensus needs an asterisk next to it.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Get back in touch when the psychiatric profession agrees with your righteous spiel instead of directly contradicting it, if you want to be covering over your blatant ideological nonsense with a fig leaf of scientific objectivity.

Professional drug dealers are not a useful source of scientific objectivity. Nor are cowardly careerists who fold to political pressure and agree that a male which believes itself female is anything other than delusional.

 

[Realm]

Professional drug dealers are not a useful source of scientific objectivity. Nor are cowardly careerists who fold to political pressure and agree that a male which believes itself female is anything other than delusional.

Cool.

Quick question, if the brain science folks aren't actually doing a science, who are the science folks doing the brain science to explain your original post

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Cool.

Quick question, if the brain science folks aren't actually doing a science, who are the science folks doing the brain science to explain your original post

The psychiatric professionals you mentioned earlier, are not the people doing 'brain science'. That would be medical and scientific professionals in the field of neurology, particularly those whose work consistently replicates. Unlike the drug dealers whose research usually doesn't replicate. Statistically speaking, a coin flip is more likely to get you a correct answer than psychiatric research.

 

[Realm]

The psychiatric professionals you mentioned earlier, are not the people doing 'brain science'. That would be medical and scientific professionals in the field of neurology, particularly those whose work consistently replicates. Unlike the drug dealers whose research usually doesn't replicate. Statistically speaking, a coin flip is more likely to get you a correct answer than psychiatric research.

Okay cool, so can you post the neurological research you're basing your opinions on indicating that sex and gender are synonymous, that transition is, rather than the evidence indicates, a moral falsehood instead of an effective treatment to gender dysphoria?

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

Okay cool, so can you post the neurological research you're basing your opinions on indicating that sex and gender are synonymous, that transition is, rather than the evidence indicates, a moral falsehood instead of an effective treatment to gender dysphoria?

No, I have zero interest in attempting serious debate with a demoralized person who pretends males can be female. There's no point to it -- because you lack capacity to tell truth from falsehood, providing information to you is without value.

Perhaps something about this topic will intrigue you and you will choose to educate yourself on it. To seek out research that disagrees with your current positions, to examine whether scientific rigor was employed and verify that it has been replicated, then apply that same examination to research that corroborates your current positions. Through such a process of willful, self-guided exploration, you might alter yourself over a span of years to a point where you are capable of participating usefully in a debate, but this is not something I can do for you.

 

[Deleted member 1]

When we all about what the medical or psychiatric fields have to say on the topic, we have to keep in mind that only one position is allowed in those fields and dissenting voices will be silenced.

Any time some opinion some a dogma and dissenters are punished, then any kind of consensus needs an asterisk next to it.

I prefer to approach the issue from metaphysics precisely because it is the very nature of the scientific profession to execute rigid policy and that policy is by no means right. We should never forget that psychiatry was used to pathologise opposition to the communist party in the USSR, for example.