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Tom Clancy's Endwar Earth ISOT to BattleTech.

namar13766

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One thing I absolutely despised about Entry with a Bang was that they had all the future knowledge and essentially went to fuck over the entire Inner Sphere. And in the new rip off story it gets even worse.
Sorry, which Rip-Off are you talking about? Candle In the Dark? The Growing Horizons Quest by Warringer? The Coming Storm On FF.net?

Here? No future knowledge of events in BattleTech. No familiarity. It's just a fight to survive.
Yeah, that would be interesting.

Especially if the ISOTed world helps the Minnesota Tribe come up with a better governance system than the Star League, which could rub outsiders the wrong way, as it may run counter to how they perceive ‘restoring the Star League” would play out.
 

Spartan303

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Sorry, which Rip-Off are you talking about? Candle In the Dark? The Growing Horizons Quest by Warringer? The Coming Storm On FF.net?

The Coming Storm.

Wait...there's more of them? Are any of them any good?



Yeah, that would be interesting.

Especially if the ISOTed world helps the Minnesota Tribe come up with a better governance system than the Star League, which could rub outsiders the wrong way, as it may run counter to how they perceive ‘restoring the Star League” would play out.

How long was Wolverine gone by the time of, say, 3000 ro 3020 era?
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
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Sorry, which Rip-Off are you talking about? Candle In the Dark? The Growing Horizons Quest by Warringer? The Coming Storm On FF.net?


Yeah, that would be interesting.

Especially if the ISOTed world helps the Minnesota Tribe come up with a better governance system than the Star League, which could rub outsiders the wrong way, as it may run counter to how they perceive ‘restoring the Star League” would play out.
It'd be interesting, I think, if Clan Wolverine/the "Minnesota Tribe" came to see the Star League, and the doctrines based on it like the Clan System, as being a system so flawed that it's like how people with common sense see communism now. After all, it failed them twice (the original SL and the Clan System, with the latter idolizing the former).

Religion is bullshit, so seeing them go full on religious crusader wouldn't work.

Imperialism? Thinking that while the Clan System and Star League models were flawed, the idea of having someone central in charge wasn't? Full on republicanism?

One of the main issues the Clanners had with the Inner Sphere, and that extended to Wolverine, was that they saw all the Houses and governments as "Scavenger Lords" -- crows pecking over increasingly desolate fields for scraps; with a Modern Earth, however? It'd be like those fields were never planted -- there are no crows, and the fields are fertile because they've never grown anything.

Hell, it took us just half a century to go from barely-powered flight to landing on Luna; with modern infrastructure, manufacturing, and technology? I'd fully expect a Modern Earth to begin manufacturing their own battlemechs and advanced aerospace vehicles within two decades, tops.
 

Spartan303

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It'd be interesting, I think, if Clan Wolverine/the "Minnesota Tribe" came to see the Star League, and the doctrines based on it like the Clan System, as being a system so flawed that it's like how people with common sense see communism now. After all, it failed them twice (the original SL and the Clan System, with the latter idolizing the former).

Religion is bullshit, so seeing them go full on religious crusader wouldn't work.

Imperialism? Thinking that while the Clan System and Star League models were flawed, the idea of having someone central in charge wasn't? Full on republicanism?

One of the main issues the Clanners had with the Inner Sphere, and that extended to Wolverine, was that they saw all the Houses and governments as "Scavenger Lords" -- crows pecking over increasingly desolate fields for scraps; with a Modern Earth, however? It'd be like those fields were never planted -- there are no crows, and the fields are fertile because they've never grown anything.

Hell, it took us just half a century to go from barely-powered flight to landing on Luna; with modern infrastructure, manufacturing, and technology? I'd fully expect a Modern Earth to begin manufacturing their own battlemechs and advanced aerospace vehicles within two decades, tops.


So between Earth and the Minnesota Tribe (I believe they would drop the Clan name once they left Clan space). I believe they could some very scary stuff by the time of 3000s and 3020s. Given, what? A 150 to 200 some years?
 

Spartan303

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Doesn't really fit in with the scrappy underdogs with great future potential vibe though

Depends on how you view underdog. Realistically there is no way they could compete on an even footing with the Clans or the IS. They'd still be the underdog. Only now the likelyhood of them getting curbstomped and absorbed/plundered is now not a near certainty.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
Founder
So between Earth and the Minnesota Tribe (I believe they would drop the Clan name once they left Clan space). I believe they could some very scary stuff by the time of 3000s and 3020s. Given, what? A 150 to 200 some years?
Oh, definitely.

From both an outside/creative and an "inside" universe perspective, a lot of the stuff we have on Modern Earth now shits over a lot what's in Battletech's retro-tech future. I was serious about a cluster of Playstation 3's (fun fact, the DARPA actually did that to computate drone stuff, IIRC).

Give a combined Modern Earth/Ex-Wolverine planet only one hundred years? Yeah, they'd make the Clanners shit their armours, ComStar their robes, and the IS their fancy garments.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had Elemental-style armour that was more Iron Man than clunky diving suit.
 

namar13766

Well-known member
I was thinking of taking a page out of Death By Chains/Trace Coburn's Virginia War Series and having the Minnesota Tribe find the ISOTed circa 2828.

This Way, they have time to assimilated, advance, and expand before taking a more active role in the Inner Sphere around the early 31st Century.
 

Spartan303

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I was thinking of taking a page out of Death By Chains/Trace Coburn's Virginia War Series and having the Minnesota Tribe find the ISOTed circa 2828.

This Way, they have time to assimilated, advance, and expand before taking a more active role in the Inner Sphere around the early 31st Century.


Kinda where I'm going with this idea now.
 

namar13766

Well-known member
Kinda where I'm going with this idea now.
Are there going to be any hard limits on what advances will be made? For instance, Renegade Legion Artificial Gravity?

Edit: I have the feeling things will play out similar to what happened in your idea on SB.com where the Spirit of Fire found the Clans.

Only since the Wolverines aren’t a collective of bellicose arrogance, things will work more or less for the better.
 
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Knowledgeispower

Ah I love the smell of missile spam in the morning
hmmm any idea on what the minnesota tribe has in terms of numbers or hardware? We know that the wolverine's mckenna ended up in the hands of the WOB in OTL and that their Texas wasn't suitable for long term service without a full HMS Belfast style rebuild to her keel
 

Spartan303

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Are there going to be any hard limits on what advances will be made? For instance, Renegade Legion Artificial Gravity?

Edit: I have the feeling things will play out similar to what happened in your idea on SB.com where the Spirit of Fire found the Clans.

Only since the Wolverines aren’t a collective of bellicose arrogance, things will work more or less for the better.

I haven't committed to anything yet. Just tossing out ideas.

Im thinking several things. First, yes, Artificial gravity as it's something Homegrown Earth was working on. This would lead into improved FTL drives Ala NBSG style. Earth would have a Naval fleet but it would be fairly small due to the absurd expenses of building and maintaining warships.

On the Ground Earth would use Tanks and Mechs in tandem, like a left and right hand respectively. But that would be backed by liberal amounts of SRM/LRM carriers and Artillery support. And yes there would be Battle armor equipped Infantry and special forces but nothing like the Elementals.

Combined arms is the name of the game. Independent operating Battalion Tacticsl Groups working within Regiment Combat Teams. Forces are designed to be flexible and adaptive to changing tactical situations and exploit opportunities. Earth will have had more than 150 years to refine anti-Clan tactics.

Though in this one I'm not sure the Clans will have the visceral hate for Wolverine as they did in canon. Here, the Wolverines pretty much guessed (correctly) what was coming and knew to forestall it or try to stop it would be futile. Nicholas needed an internal enemy to rally the Clans and Sarah McEverdy refused to be that boogie man. So she pulled a George Washington and the Clan metaphorically slipped away in the middle of the night. They stripped everything they could and bolted. There is anger at them certainly but also an air of mystery about their disappearance.
 

Jormungandr

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I haven't committed to anything yet. Just tossing out ideas.

Im thinking several things. First, yes, Artificial gravity as it's something Homegrown Earth was working on. This would lead into improved FTL drives Ala NBSG style. Earth would have a Naval fleet but it would be fairly small due to the absurd expenses of building and maintaining warships.

On the Ground Earth would use Tanks and Mechs in tandem, like a left and right hand respectively. But that would be backed by liberal amounts of SRM/LRM carriers and Artillery support. And yes there would be Battle armor equipped Infantry and special forces but nothing like the Elementals.

Combined arms is the name of the game. Independent operating Battalion Tacticsl Groups working within Regiment Combat Teams. Forces are designed to be flexible and adaptive to changing tactical situations and exploit opportunities. Earth will have had more than 150 years to refine anti-Clan tactics.

Though in this one I'm not sure the Clans will have the visceral hate for Wolverine as they did in canon. Here, the Wolverines pretty much guessed (correctly) what was coming and knew to forestall it or try to stop it would be futile. Nicholas needed an internal enemy to rally the Clans and Sarah McEverdy refused to be that boogie man. So she pulled a George Washington and the Clan metaphorically slipped away in the middle of the night. They stripped everything they could and bolted. There is anger at them certainly but also an air of mystery about their disappearance.
The conspiracy theories, ironically, could've also undermined Nicholas as people would start asking awkward questions. It went from being a rallying point of "destroy the heretics!" (so-to-speak) to being a double-edged sword.

When the truth finally does leak out, I can see a lot of Clanners basically saying "welp, they got a better offer than sticking with us. I hate them for it, but I don't blame them, too".
 

Spartan303

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The conspiracy theories, ironically, could've also undermined Nicholas as people would start asking awkward questions. It went from being a rallying point of "destroy the heretics!" (so-to-speak) to being a double-edged sword.

When the truth finally does leak out, I can see a lot of Clanners basically saying "welp, they got a better offer than sticking with us. I hate them for it, but I don't blame them, too".


Inadvertently this would make the Clans stronger and more of a threat. Talk about Irony of ironies.
 

Spartan303

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Does this mean all of the Clans will invade with concerted effort instead of the half-assed one of OTL?

Nah. They're still the Clans and all about the bidding system of theirs. They wouldnt get serious unless they absolutely had too.
 

namar13766

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If the Clancies are going to be different, one of the things they should have is massed combat vehicle formations, with mechs forming a supporting role, like the Hells Horses. They don't think Mechs are inherently superior to massed combat vehicles. Plus, if a general is being engaged in combat, they’re either having a really bad day or they’re insufficiently focused on their duties as a commander.

To explain why Mechs have such a mythos in the IS, consider that the wheels were coming off all the nations in the tail end of the 2nd SW - mass famine and epidemics, civil unrest, breakdowns in communication and administration, mutinies, entire worlds falling into warlordism. At the absolute nadir of the Succession Wars, most governments were becoming far more fearful of the threat of domestic revolt than foreign invasion. Ultimately, conventional forces were largely permitted to be expendable. It was considered far easier to observe and maintain the loyalty of an extremely limited number of mechwarriors than mass formations. Aside from a limited conventional auxiliary force, the main garrisons on worlds consisted of paramilitary gendarmes with no weapons heavier than machine guns and mortars - enough to keep the locals in line without posing a major threat to regular military units.

Over the ensuing decades, the central governments of the Successor States painfully, agonizingly, rebuilt their legitimacy and stabilized affairs, bit by bit. The general increase of conventional military forces and of combined arms going into the early 31st century reflects these shifting circumstances, something that the new mech aristocracy was well aware of. The reactionary Warrior's Cabals in the Federated Suns would be the best example of this - seeing in the ongoing military reforms a diminished future, one that would inevitably lead to their ultimate marginalization as an independent political force, they plunged the Federated Suns into a multi-year civil war.
 

Jormungandr

The Midgard Wyrm
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If the Clancies are going to be different, one of the things they should have is massed combat vehicle formations, with mechs forming a supporting role, like the Hells Horses. They don't think Mechs are inherently superior to massed combat vehicles. Plus, if a general is being engaged in combat, they’re either having a really bad day or they’re insufficiently focused on their duties as a commander.

To explain why Mechs have such a mythos in the IS, consider that the wheels were coming off all the nations in the tail end of the 2nd SW - mass famine and epidemics, civil unrest, breakdowns in communication and administration, mutinies, entire worlds falling into warlordism. At the absolute nadir of the Succession Wars, most governments were becoming far more fearful of the threat of domestic revolt than foreign invasion. Ultimately, conventional forces were largely permitted to be expendable. It was considered far easier to observe and maintain the loyalty of an extremely limited number of mechwarriors than mass formations. Aside from a limited conventional auxiliary force, the main garrisons on worlds consisted of paramilitary gendarmes with no weapons heavier than machine guns and mortars - enough to keep the locals in line without posing a major threat to regular military units.

Over the ensuing decades, the central governments of the Successor States painfully, agonizingly, rebuilt their legitimacy and stabilized affairs, bit by bit. The general increase of conventional military forces and of combined arms going into the early 31st century reflects these shifting circumstances, something that the new mech aristocracy was well aware of. The reactionary Warrior's Cabals in the Federated Suns would be the best example of this - seeing in the ongoing military reforms a diminished future, one that would inevitably lead to their ultimate marginalization as an independent political force, they plunged the Federated Suns into a multi-year civil war.
Yeah -- a Modern Earth that's been given time to stew with Wolverines and a century or so? They're not going to have an emphasis on the "Cult of the Mechwarrior" like the Clans/IS do -- you'd probably find one or two heavy mechs acting as bastions in a large formation of combined arms vehicles and mechanized (as in power suit) infantry.

Hell, aforementioned mechanized infantry may probably end up being like the Mobile Infantry from the Starship Troopers book. That'd be one hell of a rude shock for the Clanners/IS if you've got a squad of what are essentially commandos going around with battlemech-grade weaponry on something that compact and agile.
 

Spartan303

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Yeah -- a Modern Earth that's been given time to stew with Wolverines and a century or so? They're not going to have an emphasis on the "Cult of the Mechwarrior" like the Clans/IS do -- you'd probably find one or two heavy mechs acting as bastions in a large formation of combined arms vehicles and mechanized (as in power suit) infantry.

Hell, aforementioned mechanized infantry may probably end up being like the Mobile Infantry from the Starship Troopers book. That'd be one hell of a rude shock for the Clanners/IS if you've got a squad of what are essentially commandos going around with battlemech-grade weaponry on something that compact and agile.

My thinking is that Mech Battalions would get added to Divisions as another form of heavy vehicle warfare. Since most powers in the IS and Clans value Mechs above all else, they put the Mechs out front to absorb attention and Firepower (while dishing it out in turn) but the real work is being done by tanks, SRM/LRM carriers, Artillery and the Infantry.
 

Jormungandr

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My thinking is that Mech Battalions would get added to Divisions as another form of heavy vehicle warfare. Since most powers in the IS and Clans value Mechs above all else, they put the Mechs out front to absorb attention and Firepower (while dishing it out in turn) but the real work is being done by tanks, SRM/LRM carriers, Artillery and the Infantry.
I can see that, sort-of.

The IS and other states value mechs because of the resources needed to produce them, various pieces of technology being either outright lost or near-impossible to replace (getting excited over a cache of old, one hundred year old memory chips being found, for example), and social reasons because of how mankind developed (e.g. rise and fall of the League, the Wars, et cetera).

The Clans venerate the mech because it's a core part of their shared culture, which is actually a bit of a hindrance to them since it doesn't make them flexible thinkers and innovators -- the exception was when the elemental armours were developed, which made infantry viable against mechs, and that brief spark of innovation created troops incredibly dangerous to mechs that changed the battlefield paradigm for them and, eventually, the IS.

A Modern Earth, with its richness in resources, industrial capability, and manpower, left untouched for a few hundred years and with the knowledge-base of the Wolverines (which knew how to build, maintain, and develop what was at the time the pinnacle of Star League technology), would have them churning out mech-killer vehicles, combined arms, mechanized infantry, and improved mechs that'd make the Clanners' mech technology look archaic in comparison.

It'd be an interesting story if an ISOT'd Modern Earth, not Battletech Earth from the same comparable time-period, eventually pulled a reverse Uno on the Clanners when they began their invasion.

The Clanners invade the Inner-Sphere; next thing they know, they and the Inner-Sphere are being fought/invaded by a superior third-party. The hunters become the hunted.
 

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