Tillman monsters.
- Thread starter ATP
- Start date
bintananth
behind a desk
ToV more than WNT. They didn't even comply with the 10,000 ton displacement limit the ToV specified and the ToV did not limit gun calibre.
Buba
A total creep
AFAIK Germany did not have to use "standard tons" as defined by the WNT. So "German" tons of displacement could had been the bare hull
And everybody cheated on tonnage - some more, some less, some rarely, some constantly ...
By artefact I mean that:
- built to comply with the ToV, i.e. a "battleship" to replace the pre-dreads;
- built to run away from superdreadnaught battleships NOT replaced due to WNT and to fight "heavy cruisers" created by WNT;
Hence, in a world with no WNT (and no ToV, right?) whatever Germany had built in the late '20s in the 10-15K ton class probably would be 100% different from diesel powered 2x3x28cm ships with c.100mm armoured belts.
Last edited:
bintananth
behind a desk
At the time of the WNT the British had the Hawkins-class cruisers - which were pretty much the prototype treaty heavy cruiser - with 7x7.5" guns and a 6 gun broadside on a 9,800 ton hull with a 30kt-ish flank speed.AFAIK Germany did not have to use "standard tons" as defined by the WNT. So "German" tons of displacement could had been the bare hull
By artefact I mean that:
- built to comply with the ToV, i.e. a "battleship" to replace the pre-dreads;
- built to run away from superdreadnaught battleships NOT replaced due to WNT and to fight "heavy cruisers" created by WNT;
EDIT: when Germany built the Deutschlands they didn't have naval rifles in that size range so it was either 11" or 5.9" and 5.9" wouldn't do until the US basically said "fuck it" and built the Brooklyn-class with a 15 gun 6" broadside that would only last for about 20 minutes of rapid fire before they ran out of 6" ammunition.
Last edited:
Harlock
I should have expected that really
The Japanese were planning to fight America for a while, depending on US policy toward Japan it would probably still happen
In this era the Japanese still wanted their decisive battleship battle and everything was subordinate to that. Theory was Japan would attack the Phillipines which would force the US fleet to sail over and retake it. The Japanese would be waiting.
They knew they would be outnumbered by the US hence the focus on quality over quantity, but by drawing the US to them they would force America to battle far from its bases while the Japanese had facilities nearby. Probably an attempt to put the US in the same position as Russia in 1905.
While the battle line was one element the Japanese also planned to constantly attack and harrass the US fleet as it crossed the Pacific. Idea being to weaken it before the big decisive battle. To this end Japan built those unusually big submarines and tasked them with attacking warships not merchants, they built those excellent long lance torpedoes for long range night attacks, and they made carriers. So at first carriers were just for opportunistic attacks, many admirals still thought that way even up to Pearl Harbour.
What changed was carriers became better and the US shifted its fleet from the west coast to hawaii. Instead of drawing the USN out they could just bomb it directly, which they did. So I guess in a situation with less carriers (though I bet they still have plenty) they might try that plan to tempt the US to the Phillipines in the hope the US actually tries to rush in help instead of just writing the place off
The Japanese were planning to fight America for a while, depending on US policy toward Japan it would probably still happen
In this era the Japanese still wanted their decisive battleship battle and everything was subordinate to that. Theory was Japan would attack the Phillipines which would force the US fleet to sail over and retake it. The Japanese would be waiting.
They knew they would be outnumbered by the US hence the focus on quality over quantity, but by drawing the US to them they would force America to battle far from its bases while the Japanese had facilities nearby. Probably an attempt to put the US in the same position as Russia in 1905.
While the battle line was one element the Japanese also planned to constantly attack and harrass the US fleet as it crossed the Pacific. Idea being to weaken it before the big decisive battle. To this end Japan built those unusually big submarines and tasked them with attacking warships not merchants, they built those excellent long lance torpedoes for long range night attacks, and they made carriers. So at first carriers were just for opportunistic attacks, many admirals still thought that way even up to Pearl Harbour.
What changed was carriers became better and the US shifted its fleet from the west coast to hawaii. Instead of drawing the USN out they could just bomb it directly, which they did. So I guess in a situation with less carriers (though I bet they still have plenty) they might try that plan to tempt the US to the Phillipines in the hope the US actually tries to rush in help instead of just writing the place off
There is good book "Rising Sun Victorious:The Alternate History of How the Japaneese Won the Pacyfic War" redacted by Peter G.Tsouras.
Second chapter wroten by Wade G.Dudley is about that scenario - american charged,get massacred,and must sue for peace.
Others - with exception of first who told about Japan attacking soviets in 1941 and winning,are all about winning some battles/for example Midway/ but ending in situation when they must loose war later anyway.
Very realistic - Japan could not win as long as american public wonted revenge for attacking Pearl.Remove that attack,and after loosing few battles american would agree to peace.
But,considering that Hitler would declare war on USA,they would still fought germans.And win earlier making more counries free.
P.S i would pay to see battle with,let say,4 Tillmans fighting 4 Yamato.
Last edited: